Growing out of anime

[Reckoner]

I most definitely never watched everything when I became an anime fan. In fact I used to be way pickier and watched less per season that I do now, even if I don't necessarily view today's anime as any better. This is mostly because I became comfortable with more genres of anime and was able to enjoy a greater variety of titles. My taste is far more expanded than it was say 5-6 years ago.

[aohige]

I actually watch very little ongoing anime, but my log of DVDs keep growing. You know, "I'll get to watching it one day" pile.
I figure I'll probably die of old age before I watch all that crap, but then again, once I'm retired I should have enough time! .... if I live that long that is.

I will never stop reading manga though.
I'm much more of a manga guy, have been for nearly thirty years.
Compared to anime, manga can stay a much longer hobby for a Japanese male.
(of course, tastes change over the course of years, the older I get, the more I appreciate many of the seinen manga that I would have found "boring" in my youth. Same with enka music, it's like our "geezer music" )

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But she never came back...

"What are you hanging out with that shut-in nerd for?!" her old ex-boyfriend asks her angrily, a couple years later.

"Unlike you, he buys me a lot of nice things. He doesn't mind spending lots and lots of money on me. I guess when you really get down to it, he cares about me more than you ever did." she responds.

Touché

lol, I keep calling anime and ask when they're gonna come up with the next sci-fi hit but they never call back. They told me it's not me, it's them.

Slut.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Golddigger?

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

When the North American marketplace for anime collapsed, the anime industry responded by increasingly focusing on the domestic market. And that worked for them. DVDs and Blu-Rays sales have been fairly strong for anime over the past couple of years, with there being big sellers pretty much every season.

The North American marketplace for anime doesn't really matter any more. Lots and lots of western anime fans basically just assumed that the anime industry would do whatever it had to in order to gain all of us as customers. They never imagined that there were limits to how far the anime industry would go to gain us as customers, and hence the anime industry was content to simply focus on the domestic market if a decent profit could be made there.

Honest question: did the North American market ever matter? I usually don't follow things like director comments or production news, so I wouldn't know if certain series were tailored specifically for North American/western markets. I was under the impression that series were created specifically for Japan and that the companies were more or less surprised and amused when prospective foreign licensors showed up. The companies made money off of those foreign licenses, but was it ever really a sizable amount - significant enough that a series could be tailored to foreign audiences and possibly risk the domestic market?

If the anime producers and studios were really catering to the western market then the anger exhibited by western fans makes sense. Otherwise, it seems like anime became slightly more mainstream in western culture, and we developed a lot of fans who didn't realize why their 30th anime series no longer felt like the fifth one that they watched. Or perhaps it was the case that western and Japanese entertainment cultures aligned for a brief period, and now they're moving in different directions again.

[SeijiSensei]

I think the belief that the studios were influenced to appeal to foreign audiences is overstated. Usually that argument includes references to a few series like Cowboy Bebop followed by a wave of the hand when it comes to all the rest of the shows produced in that period. I do think there have been shows where foreign appeal may have mattered, Black Lagoon for example, but in general I think that, even then, most anime was made by Japanese studios for Japanese audiences. Geneon was probably one firm that paid attention to foreign tastes, given that it had a US subsidiary at the time, and we know that I.G had some Hollywood ties that came to the fore in the Kill Bill movies.

On the other hand, foreign licensors like ADV did pay some ridiculously high rights fees back in the days of the anime boom. Kurau Phantom Memory topped the list at nearly a million dollars. So I'd imagine the studios gave some attention to what the foreign licensors wanted, but not as much as the "where have all the Bebops gone" crowd seems to think.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Honest question: did the North American market ever matter? I usually don't follow things like director comments or production news, so I wouldn't know if certain series were tailored specifically for North American/western markets. I was under the impression that series were created specifically for Japan and that the companies were more or less surprised and amused when prospective foreign licensors showed up. The companies made money off of those foreign licenses, but was it ever really a sizable amount - significant enough that a series could be tailored to foreign audiences and possibly risk the domestic market?

If the anime producers and studios were really catering to the western market then the anger exhibited by western fans makes sense. Otherwise, it seems like anime became slightly more mainstream in western culture, and we developed a lot of fans who didn't realize why their 30th anime series no longer felt like the fifth one that they watched. Or perhaps it was the case that western and Japanese entertainment cultures aligned for a brief period, and now they're moving in different directions again.

Yes, it mattered from an industry point of view as available funds for new projects were reduced with the loss of both the US distribution market and the world wide decline in physical media sales. However foreign licenses are usually handled on a production committee level or even by industry trade funds so individual animation houses or directors may not even be fully aware where their product ends up.

The Japan external trade organization has a translated piece on their website on the anime market and foreign sales during the mid 2000s. www.jetro.org/trends/market_info_anime.pdf

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Bri

Yes, it mattered from an industry point of view as available funds for new projects were reduced with the loss of both the US distribution market and the world wide decline in physical media sales. However foreign licenses are usually handled on a production committee level or even by industry trade funds so individual animation houses or directors may not even be fully aware where their product ends up.

It may have been a source of funding, but did it affect things like story lines, artwork styles, and selection of series to be produced? That's the issue we're wondering about.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

It may have been a source of funding, but did it affect things like story lines, artwork styles, and selection of series to be produced? That's the issue we're wondering about.

Roughly speaking by anime broadcaster:

Network: US influence unlikely. Content ordered by large Japanese corporate sponsors who already have decided if it is meant for an international or domestic market with requirements on content.

UHF: No US influence. Funded by local investors and aimed at local (Kansai) otaku market. Lowest budgets, licenses bought aftermarket, usually at trade fairs at events like TAF or Angoulême.

Satellite/Cable: Significant western market importance. Content ordered by media firms for dedicated (international) anime channels. Some firms have affiliations (joint venture, ownership, participation) with US/European distributors. Overseas licenses and DVD sales significant source of revenue and most heavily affected by the collapse of western anime bubble and decline in physical media. The major source for "serious anime". Iirc Dai Satō commented that content like space-western, organized crime and cyberpunk were specifically produced with non-Japanese audiences in mind.

[zarqu]

Originally Posted by Bri

Iirc Dai Satō commented that content like space-western, organized crime and cyberpunk were specifically produced with non-Japanese audiences in mind.

You wouldn't happen to have a source for this, would you?

I found this almost eight years old article (Dai Satō talks with Doug McGray about animé), but it only mentions Samurai Champloo, which Sato says was indeed made with American audiences in mind (in fact, he says, the producers thought it would sell better in the U.S. than in Japan).

I only ask because I really would like to read the source (if it's in English). Satō seems to have many interesting things to say.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by zarqu

You wouldn't happen to have a source for this, would you?

I found this almost eight years old article (Dai Satō talks with Doug McGray about animé), but it only mentions Samurai Champloo, which Sato says was indeed made with American audiences in mind (in fact, he says, the producers thought it would sell better in the U.S. than in Japan).

I only ask because I really would like to read the source (if it's in English). Satō seems to have many interesting things to say.

No, I think it came up in a chat with Adrian Lozano, a fellow Macross enthusiast. He is one of the people behind Otaku2.com, so it probably came from the same interview with Satō.

[Tougarashi]

The last time I watched animes was 4 years ago. Starting from The Last Exile and Hantsuki , I watched till Tengen toppa gurren lagann. Then I got married and thought that I would ditch animes forever without looking back.

Then I work as IT person in two japanese companies that establish in my country. I had to study Japanese and took Japanese classes. Then I found Chihayafuru, an anime about Japanese card game and get stuck with it. Its a amazing experience to watch and learn at the same time since right now I'm not just watching animes for entertainment but also to learn something. In Japanese classes the teachers only teach formal usage mostly but in animes the characters speak plain-form which is more friendly and use widely.

I think I will watch animes for next three or more decades. I will never quit watching them. I will be growing into the world of animes. Ganbatte imas.

[Irenicus]

I figured I didn't grow out of anime so much as I'm on hiatus. I'll be back in no time like one of those old rock bands, and then I will. devour. anime.

Though I am somewhat skeptical of the notion "growing out" of an entire media form. Displacement would be more of the situation; either the mainstream changes, or you change, but growing up implies a shift that is somewhat universal and influenced by age. Those changes exist -- definitely -- but we tend to far overestimate their influence.

The inner child never dies. You just want your big explosions to be a little less incoherent.

[Keroko]

I personally share the opinion that growing out of anime is.... hard. Tastes change when people grow up, and what you like as a kid may not be what you like as an adult, but anime is so widespread, it really covers every genre so I find it hard to believe that there really isn't any anime someone can enjoy. Certain seasons may be disappointing because they don't have anime of a genre (or if they do, of a decent quality) you may like, but anime as a whole should still have something.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I personally share the opinion that growing out of anime is.... hard.

In my experience what it is hard is seen as everyone you know IRL grows out of anime and you are left with no one to talk about how awesome the new series/OVAs/movies are -_-

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

In my experience what it is hard is seen as everyone you know IRL grows out of anime and you are left with no one to talk about how awesome the new series/OVAs/movies are -_-

Yes, that's the sad reality for me as well. It's impossible to talk about anime that is not Saint Seiya/Dragon Ball/Harlock/Hokuto no Ken/Lodoss/Akira/Evangelion/City Hunter with every of those who were in highschool with me, because they moved on.

[speedyexpress48]

I think the best example of the former importance of the US anime market is probably the second season of Big O.

It was made specifically FOR Cartoon Network, even though it aired in Japan at first. Of course, the show wasn't exactly a success, so...yeah.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

I think the best example of the former importance of the US anime market is probably the second season of Big O.

It was made specifically FOR Cartoon Network, even though it aired in Japan at first. Of course, the show wasn't exactly a success, so...yeah.

The SECOND season of Big O? I was instantly a fan of the show when it aired, and yet I never once saw the second season broadcast. I didn't even watch it until about a year ago.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Traece

The SECOND season of Big O? I was instantly a fan of the show when it aired, and yet I never once saw the second season broadcast. I didn't even watch it until about a year ago.

According to wikipedia it was broadcast on adult swim back in 2003

[solomon]

Spoiler alert.........this is highly subjective.

Like others said tastes change in people as you age.

However I can get someone when they say they "grow out of anime". To keep things simple, personally I think anime doesn't completely appeal to my same 25 year old sensiblities as it did as a 15 year old. Every thing was fresh new and exciting (especially compared to US cartoons).

Now I realize that anime has it's own limitations and boundaries just like the US Marketplace. It caters to its built in audiences just like our shows do.

I don't watch nearly as much shows as I used to, but I still love the stuff. I'm just not a huge fan of the modern dough-eyed cutsey girl designs and the fact that almost every single show takes place in high school or at least it feels that way. I guess I just don't really like a lot of modern anime tropes.