GATE - Light Novel Discussion

[SineMora]

Originally Posted by Pesti13nce

The only magic I remember at the moment was the human (her name eludes me at the moment) putting that guy to sleep when they were at the hot spring. I honestly can't remember any more off the top of my head.

You mean Leilei, but the same magic was used by Tuka during Itami was captured by Bozes Aside from Tuka's enchantment on her arrows that happened twice (but rarely used cause guns are way faster)

[Panzerklein]

4:20, medieval long bow, short bow, 2 type of crossbow, handgun, matchlock testing on medieval armor, you can know why firearm replace all other range weapon.

So modern firearms got no matter to shoot those Roman soldiers even on their armor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VpsKrs1yww

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Talk on modern ballistic weaponry aside, I'm still puzzled at how, for a society where magic is treated at face value, there's a severe lack of, well, actual magical items. I mean, even the damage that Rory's axe deals seems less from enchantments, but rather the combination of the weight of the darned thing plus Rory's strength.

The apprentice girl has been thinking about this as well. Apparently casting magic as it is done normally involved creating a false reality and switching it with the real one. Unfortunately this takes a shit load of time, at least in regards to a battle.

However, she was experimenting on ways to cast magic using just the original reality, which seems to speed up the process considerably. Still lacking in the power department.

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by XFire

The apprentice girl has been thinking about this as well. Apparently casting magic as it is done normally involved creating a false reality and switching it with the real one. Unfortunately this takes a shit load of time, at least in regards to a battle.

However, she was experimenting on ways to cast magic using just the original reality, which seems to speed up the process considerably. Still lacking in the power department.

Where does lacking power comes from. Did you read up to ch. 28 in the manga where she's showing her teacher a big explosion? As seen in that chapter Lelei is already using our science and understanding of physics and chemistry to upgrade her magic. Whereas that world's mages can only shoot/throw a few stones at most and are already surpassed even by that worlds primitive technology like crossbows and catapults. Also if the big explosion she did is any hint:

Spoiler for Lelei's magic:

from the japanese wiki her most used/powerful spell applies the concepts of shaped charges. So basically a magic RPG. So whatever she did in ch. 28 it's already at that stage or close to it.

Also I think someone already mentioned that even after she learned about our science and applied it to her magic. She takes the stance of maintaining the status quo and not spreading her knowledge to other mages. Just like how Sugawara though if suddenly taking 500 million suwani from the empire would destroy their economy and injecting into our world would bring chaos to ours.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Kamui04

Where does lacking power comes from. Did you read up to ch. 28 in the manga where she's showing her teacher a big explosion? As seen in that chapter Lelei is already using our science and understanding of physics and chemistry to upgrade her magic. Whereas that world's mages can only shoot/throw a few stones at most and are already surpassed even by that worlds primitive technology like crossbows and catapults. Also if the big explosion she did is any hint:

Spoiler for Lelei's magic:

from the japanese wiki her most used/powerful spell applies the concepts of shaped charges. So basically a magic RPG. So whatever she did in ch. 28 it's already at that stage or close to it.

Also I think someone already mentioned that even after she learned about our science and applied it to her magic. She takes the stance of maintaining the status quo and not spreading her knowledge to other mages. Just like how Sugawara though if suddenly taking 500 million suwani from the empire would destroy their economy and injecting into our world would bring chaos to ours.

I meant as compared to modern armaments, which is what she was using as a comparison. She herself mentioned that the power wasn't near enough to close the gap between her world and the JSDF. I was just applying her own standards.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Panzerklein

4:20, medieval long bow, short bow, 2 type of crossbow, handgun, matchlock testing on medieval armor, you can know why firearm replace all other range weapon.

So modern firearms got no matter to shoot those Roman soldiers even on their armor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VpsKrs1yww

While the show is entertaining so isn't it that accurate as the bows they used were toys compared to the real thing. The reason bows went out of fashion were because it took many years to train a longbowman, but note that this wasn't because it's hard to hit targets, but because it took several years to build up the special muscles needed to be able to pull a longbow.

Bows would be a great threat to the JSDF infantry, although armored transports would offer good protection. But to actually do anything more then ride around so do they need to get out of the cars and then bows would be dangerous. On the other hand so would bowmen formations be suicide against modern weapons, so they would need to learn skirmish fighting to be of any use.

[Top Sergeant]

Agreed Znail, close formations would be more vulnerable to both explosives as well as bullets, which may pierce more than one person. And heavy machinegun rounds would be quite devastating.

Very much looking forward to the next chapter to see where we go from here (I have not read the novel). Quite a few threads here, the chief one being this situation in the Imperial Palace. There is also the situation with the Dark Elf, and Leilei's magic experimentation. Loving this manga.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Znail

While the show is entertaining so isn't it that accurate as the bows they used were toys compared to the real thing. The reason bows went out of fashion were because it took many years to train a longbowman, but note that this wasn't because it's hard to hit targets, but because it took several years to build up the special muscles needed to be able to pull a longbow.

Bows would be a great threat to the JSDF infantry, although armored transports would offer good protection. But to actually do anything more then ride around so do they need to get out of the cars and then bows would be dangerous. On the other hand so would bowmen formations be suicide against modern weapons, so they would need to learn skirmish fighting to be of any use.

Could bows go through modern ballistic armor? I have trouble believing they could pierce something meant to stop bullets...

And what's their maximum effective range that they can be fired from in a general army formation?

[Angrypokstick]

Originally Posted by XFire

Could bows go through modern ballistic armor? I have trouble believing they could pierce something meant to stop bullets...

Modern body armor comes in a wide range of levels of effectiveness- soft armor(kevlar only) plate carriers(combination of kevlar and trauma plates or just the plates in some cases.), but none are readily available that will stop a strong bow/cross bow unless the arrow hits the trauma plate. in most cases even a sharp knife stabbed properly can penetrate Kevlar with ease.

A typical bulletproof vest works by being woven with very strong thread such as kevlar. The kevlar fibers don't break when struck by the bullet and this forces the projectile to deform, which spreads it's impact area out over a larger surface. millitary ball or FMJ ammo tend to be non deforming and thus prove to be more likely to penetrate body armor, similarly arrows typically have a nondeforming steel point, this means that the typical pressure at the impact point of a arrow is measured in Tons per square inch ,all of which means that an arrow can easily defeat a vest.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Angrypokstick

Modern body armor comes in a wide range of levels of effectiveness- soft armor(kevlar only) plate carriers(combination of kevlar and trauma plates or just the plates in some cases.), but none are readily available that will stop a strong bow/cross bow unless the arrow hits the trauma plate. in most cases even a sharp knife stabbed properly can penetrate Kevlar with ease.

A typical bulletproof vest works by being woven with very strong thread such as kevlar. The kevlar fibers don't break when struck by the bullet and this forces the projectile to deform, which spreads it's impact area out over a larger surface. millitary ball or FMJ ammo tend to be non deforming and thus prove to be more likely to penetrate body armor, similarly arrows typically have a nondeforming steel point, which can easily defeat a vest.

Huh. That makes sense.

Well, they'll just have to stay out of range then...

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Angrypokstick

Modern body armor comes in a wide range of levels of effectiveness- soft armor(kevlar only) plate carriers(combination of kevlar and trauma plates or just the plates in some cases.), but none are readily available that will stop a strong bow/cross bow unless the arrow hits the trauma plate. in most cases even a sharp knife stabbed properly can penetrate Kevlar with ease.

A typical bulletproof vest works by being woven with very strong thread such as kevlar. The kevlar fibers don't break when struck by the bullet and this forces the projectile to deform, which spreads it's impact area out over a larger surface. millitary ball or FMJ ammo tend to be non deforming and thus prove to be more likely to penetrate body armor, similarly arrows typically have a nondeforming steel point, this means that the typical pressure at the impact point of a arrow is measured in Tons per square inch ,all of which means that an arrow can easily defeat a vest.

I'm not so much concerned that an arrow or quarrel could get through the ballistic plates inserted into combat body armor, but more that parts of the body not covered (face, legs, arms, torso areas not covered by the plates) would be hit, any of which might prove to be fatal, and certainly incapacitating.

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

I'm not so much concerned that an arrow or quarrel could get through the ballistic plates inserted into combat body armor, but more that parts of the body not covered (face, legs, arms, torso areas not covered by the plates) would be hit, any of which might prove to be fatal, and certainly incapacitating.

and since its cityscape crossbows should be the norm since IMO it doesnt tend to be that long albeit you can reload really slow while theoretically still have enough kinetic energy to bolt a soldier even if his armor has inserts.

I still kinda want to see Tuka or Yao fire element infused arrows (a fire arrow that's made of artificial means doesn't count) for the lulz tho but IMO, the compound bow can't be enchanted or some stuff like that because it wasn't made by a fletcher's sweat and skill and that its stamped stuff by machines.

[Top Sergeant]

Enchant an arrow to explode when it strikes something. Instant light artillery.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Znail

While the show is entertaining so isn't it that accurate as the bows they used were toys compared to the real thing. The reason bows went out of fashion were because it took many years to train a longbowman, but note that this wasn't because it's hard to hit targets, but because it took several years to build up the special muscles needed to be able to pull a longbow.

Keep in mind that bows also went out of fashion compared to guns because guns are HILARIOUSLY more lethal than bows. At longer ranges, even someone armored in simple leather armor can avoid serious injury from hits by arrows. Bullets will punch right through, and shatter bones and vital organs before going out the other side. It certainly is easier to train men with guns than it is to train bowmen, but guns largely came to replace bows because they were just better...even when you're talking about slow firing single shot muzzle loaders. The general trend in military history is that once someone encounters firearms, they begin to overwhelmingly prefer it to more traditional ranged weapons. You can see that with American Indians, in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia.

Originally Posted by Znail

Bows would be a great threat to the JSDF infantry, although armored transports would offer good protection. But to actually do anything more then ride around so do they need to get out of the cars and then bows would be dangerous. On the other hand so would bowmen formations be suicide against modern weapons, so they would need to learn skirmish fighting to be of any use.

Keep in mind that these JSDF infantry are trained to fight as skirmishers to. Only it's a much more intense game of skirmish warfare than anyone in the ancient world could dream up. They're trained to fight against peer opponents armed weapons that could kill a man instantly should he carelessly expose himself. He deals with this threat by learning to use cover effectively (and quickly, so he can get to protection when attacked when exposed), along with rapidly returning fire to gain fire superiority so that the enemy cannot continue to shoot him.


What happens when bowmen decide to attack JSDF infantry from an ambush, is that maybe a couple of JSDF take hits, but then the JSDF respond with such overwhelming return fire from rifles and machineguns that the bowmen all get pinned (anyone who isn't pinned got shot). Once the JSDF have fire superiority, they can leisurely flank and destroy the bowmen.



It's REALLY important for people to remember that bows simply are not a reliable way to destroy an enemy force from a distance. Even at Crecy/Agincourt, English Longbowmen mostly weakened/blunted the various French Charges. It was English spear-men and dismounted Knights behind wooden stakes that actually brought the charges to a halt. Melee was still what ultimately broke the enemy, simply because bows/crossbows just weren't efficient at killing people at a distance. Bows simply aren't competitive at range against weapons that CAN reliably annihilate anyone foolish to expose themselves out in the open.

[aohige]

Finally! 3rd gaiden book has been announced, released simultaneously as the 4th manga volume.



Itami, the DRAGON KNIGHT.

.... wut.

"da fuq happened to you" is the general reaction on 2ch thread.


Goddamnit, I already have so much crap to buy on April, and this gets added to the pile!

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by aohige

Finally! 3rd gaiden book has been announced, released simultaneously as the 4th manga volume.



Itami, the DRAGON KNIGHT.

.... wut.

"da fuq happened to you" is the general reaction on 2ch thread.


Goddamnit, I already have so much crap to buy on April, and this gets added to the pile!

That armour looks nice and powerful.
Meanwhile, the woman in plain hot pants and knee socks.
When does the gaiden take place chronologically?

[Hata]

Originally Posted by Awrya

When does the gaiden take place chronologically?

gaiden 3? after Gaiden 2 of course,

to be more exact,

Spoiler for spoiler:

at least 10 months+ passed after the closing of the gate.

[Velsy]

Originally Posted by aohige

Finally! 3rd gaiden book has been announced, released simultaneously as the 4th manga volume.



Itami, the DRAGON KNIGHT.

.... wut.

"da fuq happened to you" is the general reaction on 2ch thread.


Goddamnit, I already have so much crap to buy on April, and this gets added to the pile!

Is that really Itami? or is it a joke/parody ?

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by aohige

Finally! 3rd gaiden book has been announced, released simultaneously as the 4th manga volume.



Itami, the DRAGON KNIGHT.

.... wut.

"da fuq happened to you" is the general reaction on 2ch thread.


Goddamnit, I already have so much crap to buy on April, and this gets added to the pile!

Why does he look so constipated?

[Breimoon]

what the hell happened to have Itami look like some sort of demigod with all that armor and that weapon? And his face is a little strange too