(L) Date A Live [Light Novel]

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

Ah, I see. So is there anything else on the Tree of Life that can be represented as a character, or has DAL finally used up everything?

That'd be everything. There are other concepts, I guess, like the twenty-two paths or four worlds, but we would have seen them by now. Plus they're far more in-depth Kabbalah-y and not as easily adaptable as the Twelve Sephirah themselves are.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

*clubs Chaos*

Sorry not sorry XP

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

That'd be everything. There are other concepts, I guess, like the twenty-two paths or four worlds, but we would have seen them by now. Plus they're far more in-depth Kabbalah-y and not as easily adaptable as the Twelve Sephirah themselves are.

I recall the 22 paths being a possible representation on the total number of volumes. While the four worlds are probably Earth, the Spirit Dimension, and possibly the DEM and Ratatoskr.

Wait... 12 Sephira? Didn't you just say there were only 10, or did I miss something?

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

I recall the 22 paths being a possible representation on the total number of volumes. While the four worlds are probably Earth, the Spirit Dimension, and possibly the DEM and Ratatoskr.

Wait... 12 Sephira? Didn't you just say there were only 10, or did I miss something?

No, the Four Worlds are something specific, not as abstract as something like that.

And Ain Soph + Da'ath + Main 10 = 12.

Also, random aside, but whilst digging through some old books my dad has on the subject, I found an interesting passage.

"Da'ath - Knowledge is the final Sephirah, the accumulation of the knowledge of the preceding ten. It can be considered to be both 11 and 00, and is infinitely endless in scope. Also known as 'The Invisible Sephirah', it is placed between Binah and Chokmah on the Tree of Life, but can never be seen. It's colour according the Queen's Scale is Silver, it's Angel is Uriel, and it's holy name is Adonai Elohim (My lord, God)"

All the Spirits have hair matching the Queen's Scale colour of the Sephirah they represent. And Da'ath's is silver? And 'invisible'? 'Can never be seen?'
Who do we know with silver hair, a zero-theme, seemingly-endless power, and has a penchant for being undetectable?

So it looks like Reine, at least, might be Da'ath after all. Who'd have thought?
Shit, looks like I was wrong earlier.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

This, very much preferred to bittersweet end.


I'm only pointing out what Tachibana is apparently building up. If I was writing this, you all know who I would have win.

The problem I see with a harem ending is the while he has support from ratatoskre for the sake of dealing with the spirits. once they are human again, shidou will not be given the same support

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

The problem I see with a harem ending is the while he has support from ratatoskre for the sake of dealing with the spirits. once they are human again, shidou will not be given the same support

Yeah, I gotta agree here. Sad as it is, realistically, it'll either be ShidouxTohka, with the others as mates, or...the dreaded no choice end... *shudders*

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Also, random aside, but whilst digging through some old books my dad has on the subject, I found an interesting passage.

"Da'ath - Knowledge is the final Sephirah, the accumulation of the knowledge of the preceding ten. It can be considered to be both 11 and 00, and is infinitely endless in scope. Also known as 'The Invisible Sephirah', it is placed between Binah and Chokmah on the Tree of Life, but can never be seen. It's colour according the Queen's Scale is Silver, it's Angel is Uriel, and it's holy name is Adonai Elohim (My lord, God)"

All the Spirits have hair matching the Queen's Scale colour of the Sephirah they represent. And Da'ath's is silver? And 'invisible'? 'Can never be seen?'
Who do we know with silver hair, a zero-theme, seemingly-endless power, and has a penchant for being undetectable?

So it looks like Reine, at least, might be Da'ath after all. Who'd have thought?
Shit, looks like I was wrong earlier.

Is there any similar info about Ain Soph in there? If not, then I think we may have another clue to Reine and Mio being the same person, because otherwise I think I'm seeing a hole in our information.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

The problem I see with a harem ending is the while he has support from ratatoskre for the sake of dealing with the spirits. once they are human again, shidou will not be given the same support

Since you quoted my post for this, I'm assuming you think I was saying I'd write a harem ending if I was the author?

Who's in my avatar?

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

Is there any similar info about Ain Soph in there? If not, then I think we may have another clue to Reine and Mio being the same person, because otherwise I think I'm seeing a hole in our information.

No, Ain Soph doesn't have those kinds of things. It's...different. considered a Sephirah, but unlike Da'ath, isn't actually one. So it doesn't have an Angel, or a Holy Name or a Colour...because, well, Ain Soph is basically God. Kabbalists consider saying 'God has x colour' or the like to be constraining his inherent divinity, so Ain Soph are generally treated as... As X. That's a good analogy.
You know, 'X' in maths? A random variable. Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur are fixed points - they always exist, but they're too divine for us to even know much about them. Their divinity has to be filtered into the Ten Sephirah for us, as humans, to understand, and once we do, then we discover Da'ath along the way.

I never figured knowing so much this stuff would ever come in handy.

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

No, Ain Soph doesn't have those kinds of things. It's...different. considered a Sephirah, but unlike Da'ath, isn't actually one. So it doesn't have an Angel, or a Holy Name or a Colour...because, well, Ain Soph is basically God. Kabbalists consider saying 'God has x colour' or the like to be constraining his inherent divinity, so Ain Soph are generally treated as... As X. That's a good analogy.
You know, 'X' in maths? A random variable. Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur are fixed points - they always exist, but they're too divine for us to even know much about them. Their divinity has to be filtered into the Ten Sephirah for us, as humans, to understand, and once we do, then we discover Da'ath along the way.

I never figured knowing so much this stuff would ever come in handy.

Hmm... interesting, and based on how you just mentioned how the three Ains being filtered leads to us discovering Da'at, I'm wondering if in DAL, Ain Soph and Da'at might be linked together rather than separately like in the actual Tree of Life, but still exist in a separate manner at the same time.

Considering how Da'at is represented by the assimilation of the Ten Sephirah, and how Kurumi has mentioned that all Spirits came from the First Spirit, it would make more sense for Reine who fits the traits related to Da'at to be the First Spirit, yet Vol 16 clearly showed us that she's Phantom.

So maybe if we consider Reine is a form of Mio's, her 'visible' self that can also be invisible without all Ten Sephirah gathered, then the power Mio should have as the first makes more sense while Ain Soph and Da'at each have a different character represent them yet still be the same being.

Atleast, it's a possible way to explain this if Reine and Mio are one in the same... I think? Hopefully Vol 17 can finally finish linking our web of information together.

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

Hmm... interesting, and based on how you just mentioned how the three Ains being filtered leads to us discovering Da'at, I'm wondering if in DAL, Ain Soph and Da'at might be linked together rather than separately like in the actual Tree of Life, but still exist in a separate manner at the same time.

Based on how Da'at is represented by the assimilationof the Ten Sephirah, and how Kurumi has mentioned that all Spirits came from the First Spirit, it would make more sense for Reine who fits the traits related to Da'at to be the First Spirit, yet Vol 16 clearly showed us that she's Phantom.

So maybe if we consider Reine is a form of Mio's, her 'visible' self that can also be invisible without all Ten Sephirah gathered, then the power Mio should have as the first makes more sense while Ain Soph and Da'at each have a different character represent them yet still be the same being.

Atleast, it's a possible way to explain this if Reine and Mio are one in the same... I think? Hopefully Vol 17 can finally finish linking our web of information together.

To briefly go into further detail: Yes and no.

Ain (Nothingness) gives birth to Ain Soph (Limitless)
Ain Soph (Limitless) gives birth to Ain Soph Aur (Limitless Light)

They're all representations of God. He exists in nothingness and is limitless, and exudes limitless light.

That light is contained within the Ten Sephiroth that he created for mankind to use to become enlightened. During this process, Geburah cracked, letting sin filter in, and, through the twenty-two paths, enter the other nine as well, creating the 'other side' of the Sephiroth - the Qliphoth.
Da'ath represents the end for us - our enlightenment. It is the Sephirah without form that we cannot perceive, but can nonetheless embody if we understand the other ten. However...it has no more to do with the Ain Soph than the others do though, so unless Tachibana is being extremely random, they aren't linked in the slightest.

...Sorry if I'm boring you all, ahah.

[Kouta6659]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

I'd say it's more likely that they all become Human again after Shido finally gets his Sephira Crystal taken out, which takes away their powers in return. That or Mio is the one who makes the sacrifice, she was the one who got summoned from whatever world she came from, so if anyone would or even could absorb the other crystals' powers, she'd be the more likely candidate than Tohka.

Best case scenario? If it ends up being Tohka, maybe it will play out similar to how Sekirei ended, and while she does have to go, after a small timeskip of a year or two she eventually comes back, now freed from her fate as a Spirit like the others.





But then what's Mio? I figure she's the one who's Da'at considering she's the original Spirit. Then again, maybe they both represent Da'at and Mio's the Spirit side while Shido's the human side? Due to how Mio appeared in the world, she's probably never been a Human like the others, and therefore can't fulfill that role on her own. Plus Westcott's starting to try killing him seriously now because sealing Kurumi would make him some kinda "key", right? Maybe that key relates to Mio somehow.

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Da'ath is the accumulation - and assimilation - of the virtues of the ten Sephirah, which is exactly what Shidou has been doing. It is labelled 'Sephirah #11' and '11' can be made from Shidou's name in the same way that '0' can from Reine's.

Ain Soph, the colloquialism for the three preceding forces of Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur is known as 'Sephirah #0' and is said to be the source that the main ten come from. '0' can be made from Reine's name, and Mio's name contains a variation on it as well.

Basically, Ain Soph created the Ten Sephirah created Da'ath.

What @The Chaos Entity applies, I remember there was a conversation about this many pages ago. Now as a bittersweet ending is possible I still would not like to see this. I like to see Shidou take center stage for that one (Moon ending lol) instead of Tohka, it feels like anytime a event or climax of battle takes place she tends to steal the show. I'll admit in the movie as awesome as it was to see Tohka in that upgraded form able to duel wield it would've been nice to see Shidou do that as well. Or at least to see something like that sometime in the series.

Now I don't dislike Tohka I love her among the other girls, I just like Shidou to achieve "the ultimate form" for once and defeat the big bad guy. It's really just a personal observance in the end and I could be seeing things incorrectly. Not meaning to drift off subject just something that's been bothering me for a long time.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

The problem I see with a harem ending is the while he has support from ratatoskre for the sake of dealing with the spirits. once they are human again, shidou will not be given the same support

What if everyone got jobs? Plus they do have Miku and not applying she would take care of everyone (except Shidou) but just saying.

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

To briefly go into further detail: Yes and no.

Ain (Nothingness) gives birth to Ain Soph (Limitless)
Ain Soph (Limitless) gives birth to Ain Soph Aur (Limitless Light)

They're all representations of God. He exists in nothingness and is limitless, and exudes limitless light.

That light is contained within the Ten Sephiroth that he created for mankind to use to become enlightened. During this process, Geburah cracked, letting sin filter in, and, through the twenty-two paths, enter the other nine as well, creating the 'other side' of the Sephiroth - the Qliphoth.
Da'ath represents the end for us - our enlightenment. It is the Sephirah without form that we cannot perceive, but can nonetheless embody if we understand the other ten. However...it has no more to do with the Ain Soph than the others do though, so unless Tachibana is being extremely random, they aren't linked in the slightest.

...Sorry if I'm boring you all, ahah.

I don't mind, learning all of this is enlightening and fun, atleast to me that is

Plus I bet there are some people who've really wanted to learn more information that connects to the source behind the Spirit's inspirations, and you helped give a lot of info that they may have not known or been able to find before now. Myself included.


Edit: Oh my... I just totally realized this, Geburah is Kotori's Sephirot, and DAL has shown an example that fits Geburah letting sin into the world. Since we just learned she's not the only one to have the Camael Crystal, that means Mio created it through making Kurumi realize she killed her best friend, or if we use Kotori as an example it was revealing Shido can seal powers by having hers sealed and/or eventually attracting Westcott's attention from the act.

Maybe this is what surprised Mio to see Kurumi nearly Inverse, to my knowledge I don't think the Qliphoth has a counterpart for Da'at or Ain Soph, so it could be possible that Mio doesn't even have an Inverse Form and only Spirits who were formerly Human have this because of their Humanity. So in a sense, the Inverse Form could literally represent Human sin infecting the Sephiras.

[Ragna92]

I don't see anything but a harem end at this point. I didn't get that vibe from this series where he will end up picking one girl (Tohka in this case). Not impossible but highly unlikely. And also with such a split up fanbase between girls will the author really choose to go with a one girl ending?

Hopefully no bittersweet ending but if anyone's going to sacrifice themselves to save the rest it will be Shido IMO.

[kampfer91]

Been long time since i last read the novel due to Yen Press but i have question .

Spoiler for ::

Why Shido have his ability ?

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by kampfer91

Been long time since i last read the novel due to Yen Press but i have question .

Spoiler for ::

Why Shido have his ability ?

Spoiler for Shidou:

it is unknown yet. Westport implies it is due to a crystal in volume 7. It is also speculated that he is the son of Woodman who has the same ability.or even that it is because of being a half spirit as the potential son of the first spirit. Sadly there is no true answer yet.

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

I don't mind, learning all of this is enlightening and fun, atleast to me that is

Plus I bet there are some people who've really wanted to learn more information that connects to the source behind the Spirit's inspirations, and you helped give a lot of info that they may have not known or been able to find before now. Myself included.


Edit: Oh my... I just totally realized this, Geburah is Kotori's Sephirot, and DAL has shown an example that fits Geburah letting sin into the world. Since we just learned she's not the only one to have the Camael Crystal, that means Mio created it through making Kurumi realize she killed her best friend, or if we use Kotori as an example it was revealing Shido can seal powers by having hers sealed and/or eventually attracting Westcott's attention from the act.

Maybe this is what surprised Mio to see Kurumi nearly Inverse, to my knowledge I don't think the Qliphoth has a counterpart for Da'at or Ain Soph, so it could be possible that Mio doesn't even have an Inverse Form and only Spirits who were formerly Human have this because of their Humanity. So in a sense, the Inverse Form could literally represent Human sin infecting the Sephiras.

Oh, Kotori's berserker rage is definitely a reference, I think. I mentioned it a dozen pages-or-so ago, I think, as the story goes the Sephirah Geburah wasn't strong enough to contain it's light, and cracked - and Kotori isn't strong enough to control her powers, and almost cracked in V4.
Mio didn't create it through Sawa though, it's revealed in both V15 and V16 that the Ten Sephirah are fragmented parts of Mio's power, and they they were born as Qliphah Crystals (We know Woodman loved Mio and can seal Spirits, so maybe he tried to seal her, and it backfired horribly. The 'sin' of a human kissing her tainted her power), with Mio needing to refine them into the Sephirah Crystals through multiple hosts. Sawa wasn't the first, and judging by how incomplete Sephiroth were said to be poisonous, and Kotori's symptoms in V4, I don't think Kotori was intended to be the last - but, well, Shidou was right there.

And yes, Da'ath does have a Qlipothic counterpart, although Ain Soph, as God, doesn't.
It's called Belial, and it's associated Demon Lord is Choronzon.

And thank you! Glad I'm interesting someone, at least

[Estzero1]

Originally Posted by Roberto1

GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THAT WOULD BE TOO SAD FOR THE OTHER GIRLS, THEY DONT HAVE ANYONE ELSE, I AGREE TONKA IS THE MAIN GIRL BUT SHE IS GENTLE, SO SHE IS GOING TO SHARE SHIDO WITH THE OTHERS, GLAD YoU ARE NOT THE AUTOR.

Come on, it's Tohka we are talking about, not some female tsundere main lead. I don't see a problem why she wouldn't share with the other girls. It's similiar to the concept they are doing now.

[Kouta6659]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Oh, Kotori's berserker rage is definitely a reference, I think. I mentioned it a dozen pages-or-so ago, I think, as the story goes the Sephirah Geburah wasn't strong enough to contain it's light, and cracked - and Kotori isn't strong enough to control her powers, and almost cracked in V4.
Mio didn't create it through Sawa though, it's revealed in both V15 and V16 that the Ten Sephirah are fragmented parts of Mio's power, and they they were born as Qliphah Crystals (We know Woodman loved Mio and can seal Spirits, so maybe he tried to seal her, and it backfired horribly. The 'sin' of a human kissing her tainted her power), with Mio needing to refine them into the Sephirah Crystals through multiple hosts. Sawa wasn't the first, and judging by how incomplete Sephiroth were said to be poisonous, and Kotori's symptoms in V4, I don't think Kotori was intended to be the last - but, well, Shidou was right there.

And yes, Da'ath does have a Qlipothic counterpart, although Ain Soph, as God, doesn't.
It's called Belial, and it's associated Demon Lord is Choronzon.

And thank you! Glad I'm interesting someone, at least

Just like to say too thank you for providing all this interesting information about the Sephirah Geburah, it really is fun to read. So just wanted to interpret something correctly, if Mio had something to do with Woodman then we have to apply it to Reine as well. If Reine and Mio are two separate entities then that would make Mio The First Spirit alone correct?

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Kouta6659

Just like to say too thank you for providing all this interesting information about the Sephirah Geburah, it really is fun to read. So just wanted to interpret something correctly, if Mio had something to do with Woodman then we have to apply it to Reine as well. If Reine and Mio are two separate entities then that would make Mio The First Spirit alone correct?

Ah, you're welcome, you're welcome
Glad to help!
...and yes! That sounds correct to me.

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Oh, Kotori's berserker rage is definitely a reference, I think. I mentioned it a dozen pages-or-so ago, I think, as the story goes the Sephirah Geburah wasn't strong enough to contain it's light, and cracked - and Kotori isn't strong enough to control her powers, and almost cracked in V4.
Mio didn't create it through Sawa though, it's revealed in both V15 and V16 that the Ten Sephirah are fragmented parts of Mio's power, and they they were born as Qliphah Crystals (We know Woodman loved Mio and can seal Spirits, so maybe he tried to seal her, and it backfired horribly. The 'sin' of a human kissing her tainted her power), with Mio needing to refine them into the Sephirah Crystals through multiple hosts. Sawa wasn't the first, and judging by how incomplete Sephiroth were said to be poisonous, and Kotori's symptoms in V4, I don't think Kotori was intended to be the last - but, well, Shidou was right there.

And yes, Da'ath does have a Qlipothic counterpart, although Ain Soph, as God, doesn't.
It's called Belial, and it's associated Demon Lord is Choronzon.

And thank you! Glad I'm interesting someone, at least

It does? Strange, if it does have a counterpart, I wonder why I never found any mention of this in anything I searched about Da'at, yet the others had their info? Atleast I know it now, and your welcome Quick question though, is Belial or Choronzon the name that would apply to a Spirit's Demon King?

So is there anything important about the other Sephiras that might be represented in the series? Cause after all you've shared with us so far, I'm now very interested in every manner of how all the Sephira influenced the characters that personify them.

Originally Posted by Kouta6659

Just like to say too thank you for providing all this interesting information about the Sephirah Geburah, it really is fun to read. So just wanted to interpret something correctly, if Mio had something to do with Woodman then we have to apply it to Reine as well. If Reine and Mio are two separate entities then that would make Mio The First Spirit alone correct?

Yeah, and it also makes it sound like Mio doesn't even have an Angel, or an Inverse Form like I mentioned earlier. Likewise if they end up being the same entity... I dunno how we'll be able to explain that one, maybe Reine's the result of Mio's powers after Elliot tried to seal her? That might be a bit of a stretch though

Now I'm starting to think that the Camael Crystal might be the ONLY Sephira Crystal that can't be refined. Maybe when Elliot tried to help her and it backfired, it suffered permanent damage that made refining it impossible. Raziel's crystal was apparently already stable after just 3 years when Nia got it, so refining them can't take too long.