2010-09-29, 18:16 | Link #17781 |
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Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
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I don't think the Meta- World even exists, in the sense that is merely a symbol for the real world.
Pretty much the question that Ange asked Tohya: "Are you Featherine, or is Featherine you?" Simply put: "Is the Meta- World the real world, or is the real world the Meta- World?" If you look at it, the witches are basically authors, who are game masters in their own right. Beatrice isn't a game creator, but a story writer, who wrote two stories that challenged the minds of those who saw them by the distorting the events of an actual incident. Lambdadelta is also a writer who did the same thing. Featherine is a representation of Tohya. Bernkastel is a poet (if I recall). So basically, the Meta- World is simply the real world during moments where authors collaborate and talk to each other. |
2010-09-29, 18:22 | Link #17782 | |
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2010-09-29, 18:25 | Link #17783 | |
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2010-09-29, 19:54 | Link #17784 | ||
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Basically that this is the answer to the idea that the Meta-World was some kind of real world and not just metaphors for something else. Certainly we can still stick with the presentation that the Meta-World is alternate space with its own arbitrary rules... Quote:
Ultimately, with the way the Meta-World is messed up, arbitrary rules and what not, it seems more like the scene in which Battler questions Beatrice about why the rose garden wasn't destroyed after her and Virgilia's battle. "Oh, it's magic." The thing about the Author Theory is that it doesn't say "Oh, it's all fiction, it's all useless!" The idea of someone presenting fiction to you is in itself important to the theory. So in the same way, about magic occurring on the game-board, you know it's some kind of agreed-upon lie but it's still important to figure out why they are lying in this way. You don't just say 'magic=lie=ignore.' And so the Author Theory doesn't say, 'Meta-World=fiction=ignore' either. Check out the link in my signature for a summary of it, plus the 'Historical Method theory' which should keep you from saying that. So the question is, what can the Meta-World tell us? Well one thing I've seen is how the character development has moved all into the Meta-World by EP4ish, or EP5. Only here can Meta-Battler, Beatrice and Bernkastel keep evolving their characters. Same with Erika, Shannon/Kanon (by their multi-episodic knowledge through the Meta-World.) The Meta-World is the real story that binds all the episodes together. Otherwise we'd have a bunch of independent individual murder mysteries with the same characters. So the question is... who's telling us these stories? And why? |
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2010-09-29, 21:53 | Link #17785 | |
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2010-09-29, 22:32 | Link #17786 | |
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2010-09-29, 23:58 | Link #17787 | |
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Whether you believe the Meta-World is a separate realm or authored fiction, both ways of looking at the Meta-World acknowledges that the game board level is a 'story' that the Author or Game Master presents that must conform to Knox. I'm also not sure what you mean by evidence being Anti-Fantasy. The evidence I listed are merely events that happened. Some of them are even events that occurred on the game board. Are you saying that the evidence that shows the Meta-World being strange are Anti-Fantasy? I would think that that's not a helpful indicator of what is useful or not useful evidence since anything that suggests that the Meta-World is strange would be declared Anti-Fantasy. Spoiler for Some evidence listed from the Author Theory:
Anyways, Fantasy or Anti-Fantasy the Author Theory is not. It merely serves to interpret what we've seen of the Gameboard + Meta-World + Written Stories as a whole, without leaving out the ideas of the letters and episodes. Although it says that neither the Gameboard nor the Meta-World is Fantasy, it doesn't say anything about Hachijou or Yasu or whoever else wrote the stories. Maybe they really CAN use magic. Magical Pretty Hack Writer Hachijou-chan! 8) |
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2010-09-30, 00:09 | Link #17788 |
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The way that Ryukishi declared he was determined to end Umineko this year, makes me think he might already have an idea on other stories he wants to work on. Like Higanbana no saku yoru ni maybe.
Of course that could have only been to make people wonder if he would end it with episode 7 or 8 too... EDIT: Personally instead of a sequel to Umineko I'd rather see him release a prequel instead. Mostly because I'm curious about the previous games of a few of the witches. And I'm assuming Higurashi isn't that.
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2010-09-30, 00:43 | Link #17789 | ||
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I think they are key questions which are similar to the one raised in that promotion for episode 7: この物語は、本当は誰の意志によって繰り返されているのだろうか。(By whose will is this story is truly repeating?) Isn’t it an unusual question since it was already implied that Hachijou is really the author? If she really is the author what purpose does that question serve? If one buys Hachijou’s claims of authorship then there are some serious questions that cannot be answered simply by “she investigated it”. For example, Battler's sin, the promise he could not fulfill, was written into the third episode. Hachijou Tooya probably knew that sin was the cause of the tragedy. How could she have known about this? For anyone who is not familiar with who BT was, there was a thread created after his passing: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=87739 Please take time to make a post if you haven’t yet. Quote:
I imagine her to look like that woman from Oliver’s story.
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2010-09-30, 08:32 | Link #17790 | |
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2010-09-30, 14:31 | Link #17791 | |
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Would that strong hint be the truth Bern showed?
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2010-09-30, 15:31 | Link #17792 | |
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Most likely, Battler will be revived by Ange in this episode. We may have already been given this clue. Spoiler for Battler’s Revival:
Anyways, here’s an interesting image I found on another forum: Spoiler for Yasu:
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2010-09-30, 16:24 | Link #17793 |
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Not so much the truth as the absence of resolution. It's actually nothing new. Battler is simply assumed to disappear, as if into a plot hole. It's just more obvious in ep7's Tea Party because we don't immediately end the story with him.
There is also the possibility that, whatever the "truth value" of Bern's truth, she could only show living/dying of people who actually did die in some fashion, hence Eva and Battler not being shown to die and no apparent reconciliation of the Kanon/Shannon issue. In short, even if Bern's "truth" isn't all that true, the mere fact that Battler not only doesn't die but seems to just vanish outright is a strong narrative indicator that he's not dead in the future. If the Meta-World is what several theories suggest it is, this is immediately obvious on an even greater level. And simple logic dictates that if Battler is alive in the future, he lived through the incident somehow.
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2010-09-30, 16:29 | Link #17794 | |
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2010-09-30, 16:34 | Link #17795 | |
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However, it is possible to imagine a few scenarios in which Battler is able, but unwilling. The killer still being alive, or someone who believes that he was the killer, would be two obvious ones. Fringe concepts like Beatrice-4 would be less obvious ones. There is also the slim prospect that Fiction-Ange is misrepresented and Ange-Prime knows, but is herself concealing, that Battler is alive.
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2010-09-30, 16:41 | Link #17796 | |
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2010-09-30, 18:04 | Link #17797 |
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Well, there are plenty of possibilities if we start... USING OBVIOUS THEORIES
- Beatrice actually captured Battler and kept him as prisoner. Yeah... too obvious. - Beatrice captured Battler, and he grew to love her through a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Seems to fit well, but again... - Beatrice rescued Battler, but Battler is convinced she is the culprit. Eventually, he realises the truth about her, but feels too ashamed to go back to Ange. - Kyrie was the killer, and Battler couldn't face telling Ange this (or lying to her). Uh... yeah. Probably not happening. - Battler escaped and fled from the culprit, but in all the excitement of the incident, forgot about Ange (hey, everyone's done it). - Battler thinks Eva was the culprit, and feels unwilling to approach Ange as long as Eva is her guardian. - There were no murders. The explosion was the culmination of some insurance or death faking idea gone horribly wrong, and Beatrice was in fact the one who tried to warn them and (yeah, I'm feeling sick already). Whatever. The basic idea I'm driving at is that the meta-world could sortof reflects the events after the incident. |
2010-10-01, 03:46 | Link #17798 |
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Isn't it possible Battler intended to meet Ange, but wasn't able to because Eva sent her to the Lucia academy? I mean they did state in the text that that school is sometimes used as a way to hide unwanted kids. Why not use it to keep her away from Battler? And if you've read the when they cry series that place is often shown to be like a very cultured prison. Ange had her "Role call" and Shion had to pass security cameras to escape for example. It's not exactly easy for Battler to meet her during those school years.
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Last edited by Judoh; 2010-10-01 at 04:52. |
2010-10-01, 07:29 | Link #17799 | |
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Yeah As far as I remember Lucia Academy is a well guarded place .. adding that if Eva putted some bodyguard for Ange when she sent her there .. It's really difficult to begin with oh graah I'm in a logic error hahaha
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2010-10-01, 08:17 | Link #17800 | |
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