Lacus Clyne... the Plot Hole Character

[monster]

Originally Posted by SNT1

she sure won all her wars clean, though.... *sees SF IJ and Akatsuki scratchless*

And what does that have to do with Lacus as a character? And you must have a twisted mind if you think a war is won cleanly just because three of the soldiers didn't have a scratch.

[SNT1]

I'm against Kira=god argument, since without Lacus, he definitely sucked in GSD. (See page 2 of the thread, Lacus=GameShark. its still the best post in this thread.)

I'll change my stance in GS3 if Lacus's army actually get bishslapped. then I'd like it but for now, boooo on Lacus. To me, shes the pickle of GSD.

@monstert = meaning those 3 MS hav lacus dust, or whatever you call it

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by monstert

And what does that have to do with Lacus as a character? And you must have a twisted mind if you think a war is won cleanly just because three of the soldiers didn't have a scratch.

Agreed. People seem to think there's only misfortune in war when named people die.

A lot of soldiers/innocents/bystanders died ALONG with SOME named heros/villains dying.

Just because people that don't have a name or a particular key role in the story died, doesn't mean the war was scratchless or perfectly or even cleanly won.

YOu don't think Lacus is feeling sorrow for the lives that WERE lost?

Shinn wanted to cry when he faced Kira because he knew what he had done. There was LOT of sorrow in GSD but just because Lacus, Kira, Akatsuki, Athrun and them didn't die, all of a sudden it's a cleanly won war?

I'll give you a hint that I learned from military friends and politics professors. The only cleanly won war is a war that never takes place.

[SNT1]

Sure, Taking down the Messiah, Genesis and Requiem WASNT a clean victory for Lacus thugs :P in the big picture they won flawlessly.

are you saying the good guys actually showed STRUGGLE throughout the series? Good lawd, Kira had the same calm look in his face, save ep. 34, when Gameshark WASNT around!!


AThrun struggled to convince Shinn, but we see he can take his ass and thensome easily if he damn pleased. Of course it wouldn't happen if Gameshark wasn't with him. (Savioured, ShinnSTABB)

[monster]

SNT1, you keep getting offtopic. Please tell me how does Kira and Athrun's battle results have any relevance when talking about Lacus as a character?

[SNT1]

They lose when they're not with her, they win if they are. dont tell me you missed this Its like as if these pilots gain some sort of aura of power...

[monster]

That connection's just pure fan creation and you know it. Sure Lacus may help them (by letting them and/or giving them the chance to) realize what they need to do, but the rest comes from their own power.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SNT1

Sure, Taking down the Messiah, Genesis and Requiem WASNT a clean victory for Lacus thugs :P in the big picture they won flawlessly.

Don't be obsessed by the superweapons. Zaft still had most of its armed forces.

are you saying the good guys actually showed STRUGGLE throughout the series? Good lawd, Kira had the same calm look in his face, save ep. 34, when Gameshark WASNT around!!

They've struggled with lack of information and indecision. Why do you think they stayed underwater so long?

There are also quite a few nameless Orb pilots who died to buy that victory.

[tritoch]

Ahem.. Flawless victory in GSD? I don't think so.

Orb lost an entire fleet whose main purpose was to attack Requiem.. Im sorry guys but losing an entire Orb fleet doesn't equate flawless victory.

Sorry to keep this from everyone. forgot to mention this

are you saying the good guys actually showed STRUGGLE throughout the series? Good lawd, Kira had the same calm look in his face, save ep. 34, when Gameshark WASNT around!!

They struggled throughout GSD and you just can't accept that since you're just stating your POV on the matter. Kira, Ramius and the others was always in constant tension. They know they can't win alone and that's why they needed to team up again.

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by tritoch

Ahem.. Flawless victory in GSD? I don't think so.

Orb lost an entire fleet whose main purpose was to attack Requiem.. Im sorry guys but losing an entire Orb fleet doesn't equate flawless victory.

Sorry to keep this from everyone. forgot to mention this

Actually if I´m not mistaken the only ships that got taken out by Neo-Genesis was the EA ships that had joined Orb and the Clyne Faction.

[tritoch]

The ships that were hit are Izumo class ships belonging to Orb.

[Demongod86]

The Izumos made it out cleanly. The EAF battlecruisers got owned.

[D a m i e n]

Originally Posted by SNT1

They lose when they're not with her, they win if they are. dont tell me you missed this Its like as if these pilots gain some sort of aura of power...

Translation for MMORPG : they are withing buffrange
Translation for MtG or any CCG: when Lacus is in game Kira and Athrun gain aditionnal +20 / +20 flying trample phase renegerate 1 reaction cancel anyaction targeting this doesnt require them to be tapped


Orb = Cagalli faction ( about the same ) but it s a different nation could be concider ally. Cagalli is a lot more credible as a leader (if you except the "here is another tissue" issue from GSD) in the way she is at least doing something in order to see the situation, doing some diplomatic trip etc etc. Lacus just raise a bunch of kids on earth and .... knows everythings, has the money to devellop SF IF with Gilbert not knowing it, has a space station to park eternal, the list of improbable events happening in GSD could go on. In GS she was also doing those sort of incredible things. She is just a credible character too many plot holes or scryptwritter shaddywork helped her along the show.

I just watch GW a serie i refused to watch until now, i wanted to see if Relena could be compare to Lacus. Well i prefere Relena 10x more than Lacus. At least Relena struggles, she seeks revenge for her father, she gets her ideals stomped, she is forced to become the reprensentative of her opponents, she is manipulated but in the end she in a way succeeds. She wasnt able to save her brother and couldnt prevent war. Relena is definately better than lacus

/rant on
Sidenote GW is nice some good politic intrigue. Could have been better if :
1) the heroes werent from a boysband
2) if they could drop the bullshit about war being the deepest wish of humanity and there is no helping it blah blah [insert more bullshit about humanity tendancy to fight] blah blah... Would be better if it was just i m evil/racist/megalomaniac or any other more plausible reason for wars instead of the fake justification about the humanity's desire to fight...
/rant off

[SNT1]

Translation for MMORPG : they are withing buffrange
Translation for MtG or any CCG: when Lacus is in game Kira and Athrun gain aditionnal +20 / +20 flying trample phase renegerate 1 reaction cancel anyaction targeting this doesnt require them to be tapped

it can also be called with the AoE (Area of Effect) !!!

[D a m i e n]

Originally Posted by SNT1

it can also be called with the AoE (Area of Effect) !!!

True though i refer to AOE mostely for offensive spells.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

Orb = Cagalli faction ( about the same ) but it s a different nation could be concider ally. Cagalli is a lot more credible as a leader (if you except the "here is another tissue" issue from GSD) in the way she is at least doing something in order to see the situation, doing some diplomatic trip etc etc. Lacus just raise a bunch of kids on earth

I wonder if this is true. Even before GSD started, there were some things going on (which Kira may or may not have been aware of, but that's another debate).

Freedom got rebuilt, complete with a hangar, for starters. Waltfeld had communication equipment and stuff. I seriously doubt that Factory just appeared out of nowhere overnight.

While she may have lived in an orphanage, I don't think she spent all her time caring for those kids.

[tritoch]

But Freedom had like a 2.5 years layaway time.

The factories must have kept running even after that 2.5 years gap. And I think there's a civil war going on around since alot of people are dissatisfied with the Treaty. (post Seed, pre GSD) But the SF could have been made after the Lacus assassination attempt since Freedom is a Seed suit, it must have been considered older than the newer models (yet Kira is pro..).

Also, I think Lacus's spies figured out Durandal/Dullindal was making a new gundam and decided that they would counter it.

Lacus lived peacefully with Kira, Andy was their bodyguard/communications man (they lived in a secluded island right?). And no, factions don't die out like that even if they go silent, once something bad happens they go into operation again (uhm.. yeah, that's a very realistic way to put it since in our country, we had 2 impeachment trials against our President (2 different presidents). 1 decade err 12 years after the first one, the 2nd one happened and the same people who went against that president also went against the 2nd president.)

Hopefully that isn't confusing.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

Translation for MMORPG : they are withing buffrange
Translation for MtG or any CCG: when Lacus is in game Kira and Athrun gain aditionnal +20 / +20 flying trample phase renegerate 1 reaction cancel anyaction targeting this doesnt require them to be tapped


Orb = Cagalli faction ( about the same ) but it s a different nation could be concider ally. Cagalli is a lot more credible as a leader (if you except the "here is another tissue" issue from GSD) in the way she is at least doing something in order to see the situation, doing some diplomatic trip etc etc. Lacus just raise a bunch of kids on earth and .... knows everythings, has the money to devellop SF IF with Gilbert not knowing it, has a space station to park eternal, the list of improbable events happening in GSD could go on. In GS she was also doing those sort of incredible things. She is just a credible character too many plot holes or scryptwritter shaddywork helped her along the show.

I just watch GW a serie i refused to watch until now, i wanted to see if Relena could be compare to Lacus. Well i prefere Relena 10x more than Lacus. At least Relena struggles, she seeks revenge for her father, she gets her ideals stomped, she is forced to become the reprensentative of her opponents, she is manipulated but in the end she in a way succeeds. She wasnt able to save her brother and couldnt prevent war. Relena is definately better than lacus

/rant on
Sidenote GW is nice some good politic intrigue. Could have been better if :
1) the heroes werent from a boysband
2) if they could drop the bullshit about war being the deepest wish of humanity and there is no helping it blah blah [insert more bullshit about humanity tendancy to fight] blah blah... Would be better if it was just i m evil/racist/megalomaniac or any other more plausible reason for wars instead of the fake justification about the humanity's desire to fight...
/rant off

Except Relena never DID anything. If it wasn't for Treize's and Zechs's politicking and Wing Gundam Zero's PWNCANNON, nothing woulda gotten done. Forget about Relena...she's worthless and is just a damsel in distress that somehow finds a way to get her ass constantly kicked even though she has connections with the god pilots of the AC universe.

Edit: M:tG translation:

Lacus Clyne: 1W
Legendary Creature--Human Cleric
3W, T: Destroy target nonwhite creature, it can't be regenerated.
W: tap target creature.
As long as you control Kira Yamato and Lacus Clyne, you win the game.
0/2

[tritoch]

Lol was watching GSD ep 42.. when Cagalli parked her Akatsuki and the screen pans to the right, you see the... what? Akatsuki again piloted by Kisaka.

heh..

[D a m i e n]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Except Relena never DID anything. If it wasn't for Treize's and Zechs's politicking and Wing Gundam Zero's PWNCANNON, nothing woulda gotten done. Forget about Relena...she's worthless and is just a damsel in distress that somehow finds a way to get her ass constantly kicked even though she has connections with the god pilots of the AC universe.

Actually Relena did a lot more than lacus.
She tried to avenge her father
She became queen of her biological's father kingdom opposing bad guys with pacific resistance.
She created an institution to promote her belief
She influence other nation to join her pacifism views of the world
She tries to talk some sens to both party.
Those are facts and achievements that cant be concider worthless

Lacus doesnt promote anything or try to advertise for her beliefs yet she get some inconditionnal supports from everyone out of nowhere. talk about nonesense. Lacus never try anything there is only success o_O how can someone succeed and how can you agree with it when you are not shown anything she is doing and how she can succeed so flawlessly.

Btw why was she "seeded" at the end of GS?? was she shouting orders really really fast, ( to soldiers that arent seeded and therefore not able to handle her orders ) singing some karaoke at x4 speed?? i have always wonder what she could beneficit from being seeded