(L+CR) Toaru Hikuushi e no Koiuta (The Pilot's Love Song)

[Wild Goose]

Legally speaking, it's a moot point - Claire was a minor during the war.

She was an outcast who was emotionally vulnerable, and the Revolutionaries took advantage of her and molded her into their tool.

But Kal blames her for the revolution because she's a scapegoat - to his mind, she is the revolution personified. His parents were killed in her name, and so he blames her for that, and so hates Nina Viento...

...and yet, at the same time, he has great difficulty in reconciling his hate for Nina and his love for Claire. He hates Nina Viento... but he loves Claire Cruz... but Nina is Claire and Claire is Nina...

Hence the BSOD.

So now Igna is going to do some percussive maintenance on him.

[Revolutionist]

That Duke guy behind Claire during the revolution looked shady as hell. The king even said that he finally got his revenge, which leads me to believe this was more about that guy's personal vendetta against the throne and/or a simple power grab disguised as a revolution.

It sucks to be Claire because even though she could always refuse to be used as a weapon, she was still just a child, which made it easier to be manipulated. That also meant she wasn't really aware of the consequences of her actions, and you can kind of see she's struggling with all that guilt now that she's grown up. All the bloodshed was pretty much attributed to her while the guys really in charge sit back and reap the rewards.

On a side note, I'm surprised the people in Isla aren't calling for Nina Viento to blow the sky clan out of the skies...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

That Duke guy behind Claire during the revolution looked shady as hell. The king even said that he finally got his revenge, which leads me to believe this was more about that guy's personal vendetta against the throne and/or a simple power grab disguised as a revolution.

It doesn't seem to be that simple. Yeah, the Duke obviously had personal reasons, but as made clear in this episode, the people needed the revolution as well (and things seem to be better for them now!).

All in all, I don't think the series is trying to pass any moral judgment. The revolution happened and that's that. Kal's hatred comes from the personal experience of losing his family; it has nothing to do with the politics or morals involved in those events.

[Wild Goose]

Best line of Episode 9:

"A medal is the only way the military can give its thanks. But the medal expresses the gratitude of everyone on Isla, including the torpedo squads. Thank you. The flare was perfect. Your partner was a wonderful pilot."

[cupumanager]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that part of his recognition was based on intellectual deduction. Let me explain what I mean here.

Claire pulled the "Are you Karl La Hire?" question on him before he determined that she's Nina Viento. She also hinted at them meeting before during The Wind Revolution (which is a considerable hint).

Now, Kal could rightly wonder "Why is she asking this, and talking about this?" Clearly, it matters to her that he's Karl La Hire. Why does it matter to her? Is it just that she hated the royal family he came from? Well, if that's the case, and she already suspected him of being Karl La Hire, why did she let him kiss her? Is she concerned over him being Karl La Hire because of who she is?

But then who would she have to be in order to worry about that? "...Wait, with her hair gusting in the wind, and a plain unusually stoic expression on her face... she looks familiar... She's Nina Viento!"

He only notices the visual similarities after his mind is already bringing him down the path of wondering who Claire really is.

Yeah, but in addition to that, It seems that anybody who really close to Claire can see through all of the Nina Viento makeup - That Nina Viento IS Claire...Ari can easily tell that from a considerable distance.

I think that both Claire and Karl, Ari and Ignacio included, already suspected the others as having something of an hidden Identity...

Claire is an mysteriously guarded Noble close to Admiral de Alarcon himselves that conveniently absent whenever Nina Viento appears...

Kal is an Blonde boy who lost his parents in The Wind Revolution - He himself told that to Claire in person; In addition to Claire as Nina Viento and Ignacio know and met Prince Karl up close and personal in The Revolution.

They just denied the possibility as farfetched, but the circumstances that unfolds makes them connects the points...

Ignacio seems to to know who Karl from the start, as even The Balesteros Republic Secret Service is the one which invited Karl to join The Isla Expedition...as The Secret Bodyguard of Nina Viento and someone who have possible connection to Prince Karl as shown.

Ari witnesses that Ignacio is a Secret Bodyguard to Claire...Who is possibly important enough to warrant his own bodyguard, and have such importance to be held from flying to battle...Even Fidel Fausto Melze, the son of Leopold, captain of Luna Barco doesn't have such kind of treatment...

Seeing his own son died must be making Leopold be not to act rashly from now on...

[Panzerklein]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It doesn't seem to be that simple. Yeah, the Duke obviously had personal reasons, but as made clear in this episode, the people needed the revolution as well (and things seem to be better for them now!).

All in all, I don't think the series is trying to pass any moral judgment. The revolution happened and that's that. Kal's hatred comes from the personal experience of losing his family; it has nothing to do with the politics or morals involved in those events.

I don't think if thing seem to be for people, the goverment don't need to get rip them, most is poor people and many war heroes to Isla in a crusade.

[hsmsful1]

Originally Posted by cupumanager

Yeah, but in addition to that, It seems that anybody who really close to Claire can see through all of the Nina Viento makeup - That Nina Viento IS Claire...Ari can easily tell that from a considerable distance.

I think that both Claire and Karl, Ari and Ignacio included, already suspected the others as having something of an hidden Identity...

Claire is an mysteriously guarded Noble close to Admiral de Alarcon himselves that conveniently absent whenever Nina Viento appears...

Kal is an Blonde boy who lost his parents in The Wind Revolution - He himself told that to Claire in person; In addition to Claire as Nina Viento and Ignacio know and met Prince Karl up close and personal in The Revolution.

They just denied the possibility as farfetched, but the circumstances that unfolds makes them connects the points...

Ignacio seems to to know who Karl from the start, as even The Balesteros Republic Secret Service is the one which invited Karl to join The Isla Expedition...as The Secret Bodyguard of Nina Viento and someone who have possible connection to Prince Karl as shown.

Ari witnesses that Ignacio is a Secret Bodyguard to Claire...Who is possibly important enough to warrant his own bodyguard, and have such importance to be held from flying to battle...Even Fidel Fausto Melze, the son of Leopold, captain of Luna Barco doesn't have such kind of treatment...

Seeing his own son died must be making Leopold be not to act rashly from now on...

Ignacio is one of those really quiet characters.
He knows it all. And he is strong. Yet he doesn't talk much and I think Ari x Igna is a good pair , just saying.
Now for something that everyone's talking about: look guys, a revolution doesn't happen without reasons: poverty, rich royal family, the problem of having a royal system and what's so ever. All that leads to a revolution so even if she was a child, she would see the royal family is at wrong and want it to step down. That's the reason she innocently helped them. She was just astonished because although someone might be able to kill, once he sees the eyes of hatred from the family of the deceased, he feels terrible unless he lost his humanity. Same here there wasn't any people with the royal family and we all know why so she saw no eyes of hatred from people , however karl la hire gave her those eyes that would make her feel the guilt.
Anyways that is normal for any revolution: if the losing part is the people in charge, everyone will hate them and they will think : they deserve anything to be done to them. It is wrong and it is not right. But that's humanity for you.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that part of his recognition was based on intellectual deduction. Let me explain what I mean here.

Claire pulled the "Are you Karl La Hire?" question on him before he determined that she's Nina Viento. She also hinted at them meeting before during The Wind Revolution (which is a considerable hint).

Now, Kal could rightly wonder "Why is she asking this, and talking about this?" Clearly, it matters to her that he's Karl La Hire. Why does it matter to her? Is it just that she hated the royal family he came from? Well, if that's the case, and she already suspected him of being Karl La Hire, why did she let him kiss her? Is she concerned over him being Karl La Hire because of who she is?

But then who would she have to be in order to worry about that? "...Wait, with her hair gusting in the wind, and a plain unusually stoic expression on her face... she looks familiar... She's Nina Viento!"

He only notices the visual similarities after his mind is already bringing him down the path of wondering who Claire really is.

Her look was more sad than her usual cold Nina demanor.
Nina letting him Kiss her also seems a lot more unlikely than her letting him kiss her when she just hates the royal family, while still liking him.

On the other hand, as Claire already mentioned, she is a sinner, and obviously didn't change much from back then.
I actually expected hr to throw it to his head rather than him realizing it himself much more like :
Claire: 'Hey I love you... btw I'm Nina Viento'

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Legally speaking, it's a moot point - Claire was a minor during the war.

She was an outcast who was emotionally vulnerable, and the Revolutionaries took advantage of her and molded her into their tool.

But Kal blames her for the revolution because she's a scapegoat - to his mind, she is the revolution personified. His parents were killed in her name, and so he blames her for that, and so hates Nina Viento...

Its a bit more than that.
Without her the revolution would have failed, which is different to her just being a scapegoat.
She actively participated in it, whether influenced to do it won't matter for Karl who has lost his Family (and probably all his friends amongst the nobles that were on the royal family's side).
His father's comment that she is just a farmer's daughter being put in fancy clothes and declared a saint also didn't exactly help his mindset.
Not to talk about the humiliation afterwards.

Originally Posted by cupumanager

Yeah, but in addition to that, It seems that anybody who really close to Claire can see through all of the Nina Viento makeup - That Nina Viento IS Claire...Ari can easily tell that from a considerable distance.

Karl never saw her up close as Nina Viento (With the exception of when they were children), only Ari and 2 of her friends did.
So the quota of getting that she is Nina Viento just from seing her is actually is 1/3
So the



On the revolution in general, i too don't think the show wants to put anyone as good or bad.
Claire is, despite aknowledging herself 'being a sinner', also a victim of the adults around her. - During the revolution - Within the boundries of her hometown and even within her own family.

Karl's parent's didn't really look like they were responsible for the general poverty either from what we have seen, so I assume that Ari's father realized that too (That and that Karl is definitely not at fault).
Either way, neither one of his parents was the type to tell people to eat cake if they can't afford bread.

[germanturkey]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Best line of Episode 9:

"A medal is the only way the military can give its thanks. But the medal expresses the gratitude of everyone on Isla, including the torpedo squads. Thank you. The flare was perfect. Your partner was a wonderful pilot."

what an emotional first few minutes after the OP.

[pagan poor]

Someone may have mentioned it before (haven't gone through the past pages since the last ep), but Ari took a wild guess about what was bugging Kal big time and she guessed correctly.

I'm guessing that Kal and Nina do get back together. Okay, not that much of a reach...

[Panzerklein]

Myself want Karl kill Claire to end her sadness and find way for his new life, or kill himself too.

[durack]

Without spoilers - does anyone know how far along the LNs are we?

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by durack

Without spoilers - does anyone know how far along the LNs are we?

atm the anime is about halfway through vol. 4

[Manic]

I watched all 9 eps last nite and was pleasently surprised by how good it is.

[relentlessflame]

I removed a whole bunch of posts. Our Spoiler Policy on this site has not changed in years, so I'm not sure why this all of a sudden. Absolutely no hints about future material can be requested or posted in this thread whether you use spoiler tags or not. Please read this sticky post.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Its a bit more than that.
Without her the revolution would have failed, which is different to her just being a scapegoat.
She actively participated in it, whether influenced to do it won't matter for Karl who has lost his Family (and probably all his friends amongst the nobles that were on the royal family's side).

It's also the King's responsibility to secure his own throne. Firstly, the rebels managed to find and secure her. Then, even after she joined the rebels, the king acted like totally shocked at the last minute. The king didn't seem to have spent enough budgets on intelligence.

"wait wat, the rebels got NUKE? NO WAY ! HOW COME NOONE TOLD ME ABOUT IT !"

Karl's parent's didn't really look like they were responsible for the general poverty either from what we have seen,

Either way, from what we have seen, the King failed his PR pretty hard, regardless of his governing being bad or average.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

It's also the King's responsibility to secure his own throne. Firstly, the rebels managed to find and secure her. Then, even after she joined the rebels, the king acted like totally shocked at the last minute. The king didn't seem to have spent enough budgets on intelligence.

I don't think the King even knew about Claire until after the revolution started.

[bakaouji]

Oh yes, the damsels make for escape while the chivalrous men protect their behinds by sortieing. I hope the show gives the women something equally dangerous and important to do otherwise I'd have to paint this show as overtly sexist. I don't see why only the women have to be more afraid when they've had the same amount of training as men and have sortied before.

I'm starting to feel that the episode in which Mitty sacrificed his life for the chick he loved had similar intentions.

So far Nina has been nothing more than an ornamental figurehead who has yet to sortie and we have to feel sorry for her because she quit the school? She may be locked in a gilded cage but she's well protected, unlike her classmates who are out there in the field fighting for their lives. If I didn't know any better, I'd say the show intends to have Kal save her from the tall castle she's trapped in.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by bakaouji

Oh yes, the damsels make for escape while the chivalrous men protect their behinds by sortieing. I hope the show gives the women something equally dangerous and important to do otherwise I'd have to paint this show as overtly sexist. I don't see why only the women have to be more afraid when they've had the same amount of training as men and have sortied before.

I'm starting to feel that the episode in which Mitty sacrificed his life for the chick he loved had similar intentions.

So far Nina has been nothing more than an ornamental figurehead who has yet to sortie and we have to feel sorry for her because she quit the school? She may be locked in a gilded cage but she's well protected, unlike her classmates who are out there in the field fighting for their lives. If I didn't know any better, I'd say the show intends to have Kal save her from the tall castle she's trapped in.

the first person to run from the room was man right?
also, it is alot worse for female character to die than male in shounin anime

[VTHokiePride]

Benji better not die. He and Sharon are my favorite couple besides Karl and Claire.