Chapter 363 Discussion

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Because I believe Sasuke's jutsu while he can use it to teleport, he has no way to bring him self back (he used Manda as his GPS target, Suigetsu summoned Manda not Sasuke) he needs outside help. That is why I believe he gave what he gave to Suigetsu (bottle and scroll) and instructed him before hand. Meaning if Sasuke EVER had to use this jutsu. Some one on the outside would need to bring him back, or he would be fucked. It makes perfect sense because it show's that Deidara's explosion was nothing to fuck with, and Sasuke had to resort to such a dangerous jutsu. (Most likely its an incomplete jutsu) I think this was something created by Sasuke as a last resort , live to fight another day Jutsu.

That seems pointless to me because forcing Manda to dispel the summoning achieves the same effect. And it doesn't use chakra!

So what you wanted Sasuke to have a perfect time-space jutsu like Yondy? I'm amazed that Sasuke can do this much, the flaw with his jutsu is he has no way to get back hence making it perfectly balanced, it is an amazing jutsu, considering it didn’t even need MS. To even think that Sasuke came so close to a time-space jutsu, is amazing.

No, but I wouldn't expect him to give Sasuke an unnamed teleportation jutsu that is useless in the vast majority of situations he's likely to get in. A teleportation jutsu that leaves you trapped in another dimension is not balanced, it's retarded.

Originally Posted by AnimeEchoes

Has anyone else noticed that Akatsuki Leader's eyes look like Kurenai's?

I don't think they resemble Kurenai's eyes anymore, not even in the manga. They look like hypnotic contacts or something.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

That seems pointless to me because forcing Manda to dispel the summoning achieves the same effect. And it doesn't use chakra!

How do you know this though? Dispelling a summon causes it to "Poof" away, how do you know the body it self does not turn in to puffs of smoke before vanishing, and whatever is inside or standing on top of the body is left back as if falling through the clouds of smoke?

How do you even know that people are allowed to go in to the summoning dimension? What if there is some sort of a restriction that rejects it, some unwritten rule? Yes, I do realize everything I have said here is just as much speculating and assuming as you have done.

However, it just doesn’t make sense, why Suigetsu would say "Space Jutsu" specifically, and both Karin and Suigetsu refereed it to as "You were flying". Yes while the translation's might be bull shit, most likely its probably not. I guess we will see when the raw is presented and we have translations from people @ NF and MH.

No, but I wouldn't expect him to give Sasuke an unnamed teleportation jutsu that is useless in the vast majority of situations he's likely to get in. A teleportation jutsu that leaves you trapped in another dimension is not balanced, it's retarded.

Maybe so, but fact is it kept him alive even if he can't use it any more, he has lived to fight another day.

[EvolutionXI]

^ Doesn't Gamabunta say to Gamakichi something like "let's go home" after the Gaara fight?...Suggesting they have their own dimension. Also, that stupid little frog (Gamatatsu was it?) that Naruto summons later on says it's his first time being summoned. If they don't exist anywhere else, he wouldn't really say something like that since he wouldn't know anything at all.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by EvolutionXI

^ Doesn't Gamabunta say to Gamakichi something like "let's go home" after the Gaara fight?...Suggesting they have their own dimension. Also, that stupid little frog (Gamatatsu was it?) that Naruto summons later on says it's his first time being summoned. If they don't exist anywhere else, he wouldn't really say something like that since he wouldn't know anything at all.

Of course the summons have their own dimension and "home". However, Sabaku Kyu and my self are debating the fact that if Sasuke really used a "Flying Jutsu" (Time-space displacement) or did he merely just get inside Manda and un-summon him, causing Manda to go back to the summoning dimension with Sasuke inside him. I'm arguing that, its not possible for that to happen because of how the summon “poofs” away, which would most likely causes anything on top or inside it to fall through like falling through air.

Also there might be restrictions against such things, because if this was possible and people or things could go back to the summoning dimension simply by being inside the summoned animal, I think it would have been done a while ago, by other people who are able to summon like the Sannin, like Orochimaru. Also the fact that Suigetsu and Karin clearly mentions it as a Jutsu, and a calls it "Flying" (which Sabaku Kyu is arguing could be a translation mistake). I doubt it.

[Syko]

So the last 2 members are revealed and now Kishi introduced 2 new ones lol.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

How do you know this though? Dispelling a summon causes it to "Poof" away, how do you know the body it self does not turn in to puffs of smoke before vanishing, and whatever is inside or standing on top of the body is left back as if falling through the clouds of smoke?

How do you even know that people are allowed to go in to the summoning dimension? What if there is some sort of a restriction that rejects it, some unwritten rule? Yes, I do realize everything I have said here is just as much speculating and assuming as you have done.

I imagine whatever is inside Manda gets teleported with him once he's released from the summoning. It would've been messy when Oro fed Manda his 100 sacrifices only to have a heap of half-digested corpses remain when he finished. I imagine Manda would be displeased as well since his stomach remains empty.

But right back at you; how can you assume that Sasuke's supposed space justu would teleport objects other than himself?

However, it just doesn’t make sense, why Suigetsu would say "Space Jutsu" specifically, and both Karin and Suigetsu refereed it to as "You were flying". Yes while the translation's might be bull shit, most likely its probably not. I guess we will see when the raw is presented and we have translations from people @ NF and MH.

Yeah, I've already seen different translations. Some of them don't even use the phrase "flying", instead Karin says Sasuke's chakra "disappeared". It depends on the interpretation, I suppose.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

The first movement of kuchiyose is to bite a finger to draw blood, which Sasuke didn't do, so I doubt it is a summoning. Neither that or this "space jutsu" is Sasuke's "that jutsu". If Sasuke's "that jutsu" is that powerful, it will be a big deal when it is first shown. It'll have a name and definitely won't occur off screen.

True, i was wrong with that. But i think that Sasuke didn't want to kill them, so he just shows some move so that Oro stops him. And if he has a secret jutsu than it probably was not that one, because Sasuke would not show his top secret strongest jutsu to Oro, unless he learned that from Oro himself. But i think Sasuke secretly developed that just like he developed his elemental jutsu secretly. Because neither Oro not Kabuto were suspecting him being so strong, so Sasuke was hiding his strongest abilities. However it may be that Oro knew about it if he had confidence in his ritual succeeding against Sasuke, so i'm not sure about that. The main point should be that Kishimoto does not want for Sasuke to copy Oro's powerful moves but have his own signature moves.

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Syko

So the last 2 members are revealed and now Kishi introduced 2 new ones lol.

You mean one new one.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

It would've been messy when Oro fed Manda his 100 sacrifices only to have a heap of half-digested corpses remain when he finished. I imagine Manda would be displeased as well since his stomach remains empty.

Thats a good point, however if I remember correctly (I could be wrong) I don’t recall anything about Orochimaru telling Manda he would feed him anything. "100 sacrifices in your name" could mean anything, in many ways, doesn’t have to necessarily mean I'll feed you 100 bodies.

Also, I’m not completely rejecting the possibility, but if this was possible how can you explain past shinobi not doing this to find a whole new "world" "dimension" "power" or "summons" especially some one like Orochimaru considering he is the “mad scientist” with all his experiments to gain power.

[Syko]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

You mean one new one.

The person giving Pein orders and the person that already made his mind.

[EvolutionXI]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Also, I’m not completely rejecting the possibility, but if this was possible how can you explain past shinobi not doing this to find a whole new "world" "dimension" "power" or "summons" especially some one like Orochimaru considering he is the “mad scientist” with all his experiments to gain power.

Well for all we know, others could have already tried it. But I think if no one has, it might be because most other summons are so small. Even Enma is slightly larger than humanoid size. I think standing on top of a summon while they vanish should be obvious that you just fall through, since the volume of space that you're occupying is outside the volume of the summon, but with the summons that are large enough to swallow you, you would enter into their volume, which then would go "poof". Also, I don't exactly see Tsunade/Jiraiya thinking of and trying it..while Orochimaru apparently had trouble handling Manda already, so to ask Manda to let him in his mouth but not get chewed/swallowed would be hard.

[gibits]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

I said that month's ago. I thought there was a connection until the color of his eyes was revealed.

Then you found out it was just another one of Kishi's "loose-ends-I have-no-intentions-clearing-up-since-that-would-make-me-a-good-writer" type of thing.

Hell this Peni guy looks just like Naruto too, wow Kishi after 2+ years to make this character great you just decided to recycle looks? What happened? Waste all your mental energy on giving Sasuke love handles?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Thats a good point, however if I remember correctly (I could be wrong) I don’t recall anything about Orochimaru telling Manda he would feed him anything. "100 sacrifices in your name" could mean anything, in many ways, doesn’t have to necessarily mean I'll feed you 100 bodies.

I couldn't think of much else a giant andaconda would want with 100 sacrifices. Could be a god-complex, but I think he'd still want to eat them.

Also, I’m not completely rejecting the possibility, but if this was possible how can you explain past shinobi not doing this to find a whole new "world" "dimension" "power" or "summons" especially some one like Orochimaru considering he is the “mad scientist” with all his experiments to gain power.

You'll have to ask Kishi to explain if they have or not. While you're at it, have him explain how is it shinobi can perform summons in the first place. When you think about it, at some point in history, the shinobi and summon animals had to have met to form the summoning contracts. But how did the shinobi know about the existence of the summon animals if they were in another realm? And how did the animals first arrive in the shinobi world without anyone to summon them?!

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Syko

The person giving Pein orders and the person that already made his mind.

Person that made his mind? what?

[Syko]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

Person that made his mind? what?

The guy in the shadows says (guessing he is talking about someone) : "His mind is made up ... it won't be long". Do you know what he is talking about?

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I couldn't think of much else a giant andaconda would want with 100 sacrifices. Could be a god-complex, but I think he'd still want to eat them.

That’s just it, I feel like it was a god-complex. Have you seen Manda and how he acts? Are you sure he doesn’t think he is a god, or maybe is the god of the snakes? After all he is the “King” Snake Summon / “God” Snake Summon. Lol, yea he might want to eat them, in the after life after their souls have transcended in to a "different plain" like .. astral like. None the less, both of our arguments are all leading down to the same place either to more assumptions, or... --------->

You'll have to ask Kishi to explain if they have or not. While you're at it, have him explain how is it shinobi can perform summons in the first place. When you think about it, at some point in history, the shinobi and summon animals had to have met to form the summoning contracts. But how did the shinobi know about the existence of the summon animals if they were in another realm? And how did the animals first arrive in the shinobi world without anyone to summon them?!

Reference to "Ask Kishimoto" and make a mockery of the proposition, due to a lack of anything better, lol so lets not go down that road and just agree to disagree and wait for the "official" translation and see what’s the dilly-o! Also to be honest, debating Sasuke right now and what he did is not the way to go, there is so much more right now that we need to look at rather then go back to the whole Sasuke ordeal

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Syko

The guy in the shadows says (guessing he is talking about someone) : "His mind is made up ... it won't be long". Do you know what he is talking about?

Oh you're talking about the he.

I guess the ability Sasuke was referring to when Deidara asked what he would've done if the land-mine his sword was on blew up anyway was this "space jutsu".

[blacktail fox]

i think kishi used this arc to introduce space jutsu and also the strong power of sharingan.

it might that we will see naruto unleash a fifth tail and probably sixth if he is to be attacked by such a large number of akatsuki. the fifth tail might just bringg about space tme abilities in naruto while the sixth tail might provide kyubi naruto with the power of genjutsu that surpases MS sharingan and also due to the poisinig of the atmosphere caused by kyubis power the closer u are in that vicinity the more u are likely to suffer severe poisoning of mind and body. we all know tha when tayuya of sound four it powered up her CS2 she gained goon genjutsu abilities not just huge strength. so it means that sometimes a power up does not just increase ones speed and strength but also can enable one achieve quite new potential abilities.

kishi seems to be focusing on the eyes i.e sasukes red sharigan eyes and narutos red eyes ever since the begining of shippuden naruto has been using those red eyes in every battle. naruto has been told repeatedly not to rely on kyubis chakara that he has enough power on his own yet why is it that kishi lets him (naruto) use THOSE EYES in all his shippuden battles. if u noticed when naruto used the red chakara to fight neji, his (naruto) eyes were normal even while using a huge amount of kyubis power. u wuold expect for such a large power of kyubi that naruto used there his eyes would have turned red then. so it means that naruto molds a considerably large amount of kyubis power transfers it to his eyes probably unconsiously. i want to know if such power been used in narutos eyes as some people might it is then why does naruto prefer it in battle? or is it that jiraiya during the training noticed that there seem to be a good difference somehow in naruto while training and ecouraged him to use it most of the time to get used to it. but then again we know that naruto does not realy notice such things or differeces caused by the enhaced eyes until probably he is told about it just like the way it was with the kage bunshi kishi focused on for years. naruto did not know about the other power of KB until he was told by kakashi now it looks like naruto might be getting a few pointers by the one who developed his MS sharingan (kakashi) on how to use THOSE EYES effectively. kishi would not be letting naruto use the red eyes alone without kyubis chakara surounding or domnating his own without some good or special reason behind it.

whats up with the AL saying the machine is ripened and that its mind is made up. how on earth is the machines mind made up?

[Nintendo]

guess its time we all have to accept that sasuke is the 2nd coming of christ. the man can do no wrong.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by blacktail fox

i think kishi used this arc to introduce space jutsu and also the strong power of sharingan.

No. Kishi used this arc to show the fans how much he can degrade the story. Also he wants us to know that, "I have already entered a deep shit, and I don't have a choice to make a turn back".

If you compare all the arcs, all the fights before, with this one, there is nothing more stupidly created than this one. And, I have to admit it, this fight is worse than even Oro-Sasuke fight. I do not even want to imagine the level of stupidness we have to bear in Itachi's real fights, and his fight with Sasuke.

Originally Posted by Nintendo

guess its time we all have to accept that sasuke is the 2nd coming of christ. the man can do no wrong.

Christ is considered as the son of the God. Sasuke has become the God itself, placed next to none other than another of the same blood, Itachi.