Just because the "17 year old Angels" TIP has Lion and Will among the BL pairings Ange and Virgilia listed doesn't mean that Lion is confirmed as male. It might be a hint from Ryukishi, but then again, it might not.
Does the manga really confirm Lion as female? I know the person scanlating it at first chose to go with female (and later corrected the scan to be gender neutral), but that wasn't based on anything firm in canon. Was there something in a chapter later on which makes Lion much more likely to be a woman?
The fact Genji worried that Kinzo might make the same mistake again doesn't confirm anything either. Reason being that Kinzo is not the sanest person out there. There would still be a serious risk of him harming Lion. He thought that Moetrice was Bice reincarnated; what's to say that Beatrice's most recent "reincarnation" having a male body would stop him?
And yet, when you consider that Genji supposedly wanted to prevent Kinzo from seeing Beatrice in his grandchild\child, I can't help but wondering how would it make any sense if he actually made it even more likely to happen, by feminizing a boy.
And yet, when you consider that Genji supposedly wanted to prevent Kinzo from seeing Beatrice in his grandchild\child, I can't help but wondering how would it make any sense if he actually made it even more likely to happen, by feminizing a boy.
True. On the other hand, Genji was putting Yasu at risk anyway. The sensible thing would be to not bring Yasu back to the island in the first place, eliminating that risk (and also the risk from Natsuhi!).
If Yasu was born a boy but sustained severe genital injuries in the fall from the cliff, the people deciding her future might not have seen any alternative to her being brought up as a girl.
In ep 7, it thankfully seems that Kinzo didn't end up going nuts about Lion, but whatever Lion's gender is I don't think it's likely that Lion's gender was disguised from the family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by battle22
True.. . But to redeem Kinzo, are we sure Kuwadorian Beato is Kinzos child? Maybe Bice was already pragnent?
Forgive my spelling ><
I agree that there's no hard proof that Kuwadorian Beato is Kinzo's child. She could easily be the child of someone else - a sailor, Genji, Nanjo...But I don't think that her not being his biological child would redeem Kinzo at all. After all, Moetrice was raised as Kinzo's child, and it doesn't seem at all likely that she accepted his feelings for her.
I know the person scanlating it at first chose to go with female (and later corrected the scan to be gender neutral), but that wasn't based on anything firm in canon. Was there something in a chapter later on which makes Lion much more likely to be a woman?
Ah, it may have been an early scanlerror then, Lion introduced him/herself as their daughter. Also could you tell that person I worship the ground they walk on, and that they have inspired me to buy the yenpress version?
I dunno ... to me, it sort of read like Erika deigned to solve those first 6/7 murders, but like ... on the claim that she ONLY needed information from the first 10 chapters of a 30 chapter book. So long as they aren't refuted by the GM later, it's possible for there to be multiple truths ... but there certainly at least should have been an "intended" single truth.
You know, I wonder if this was all part of Lambdadelta's plan. That she actually wanted Erika to end the game early, so that she wouldn't have to give any hints towards ShKanon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuestSpeaker
I understand the first bit, you are saying she never investigated a real crime, but what about the crimes that would light on being fake bit?
Perhaps wording it this way will help:
She didn't do any investigating (of fake crimes) that would actually light on the fact they were fake crimes.
Back on Topic, it is pretty strange that a body would have been kept for over a year for the sake of the murder games. Where would Genji and/or Yasu keep Kinzo? How popular is the "The strange smells in Kinzo's room is the smell of death/ embalming chemicals" theory? It makes sense, but I really can't think of much else. It's probably not important though...
That theory doesn't work because Natsuhi has one of the keys to the room. She would have investigated any kind of weird odor emanating from there even if she wasn't constantly going in and out (which EP5 suggested she was).
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."
Imagine if there's a Genji's secret room with his collection of embalmed people.
Jokes apart I think there's a chance that "kinzo's corpse" was a dummy and not a real corpse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand
True. On the other hand, Genji was putting Yasu at risk anyway. The sensible thing would be to not bring Yasu back to the island in the first place, eliminating that risk (and also the risk from Natsuhi!).
If Yasu was born a boy but sustained severe genital injuries in the fall from the cliff, the people deciding her future might not have seen any alternative to her being brought up as a girl.
I guess that a sex reassignment program is the only way to explain such thing without thinking Genji is nut or an asshole, in part because in that case it'd be probably Nanjo's idea, and in part because it was more justifiable. There's been several cases of infants being put under a sex reassignment program after the loss of their penis (most of the time due to a circumcision gone wrong), though the practice is heavily questioned by some and there's a famous case where it didn't work at all.
Still is a medic in a god forsaken island where there aren't even ambulances qualified to such a thing? Something like that should have required specialized surgery at first, vaginoplasty later (and with the lack of a penis the only option would be to use part of the colon, not really a simple operation) and hormone therapy by the time Yasu became pubescent.
I wonder if something like that was ever done in Japan around that time or if Ryuukishi even thought this scenario, but the alternative would be to think that they said a retarded: "you lost your penis: you're a girl".
I just want to point out that the manga never specifies Lion's gender in any way. That was purely on the part of the scanlator taking things into his own hands very unprofessionally.
Hmm... Still, my personal canon is that Yasu was born male. The testicles are the part of the body that produces testosterone, the hormone responsible for changes like deepening of the voice, masculinization of the body, etc. It is a possible explanation as to why Kanon has feminine features and a not-so-manly voice and Shannon using fake breasts.
Then again, Yasu's gender is a catbox by itself and this is only my opinion.
You know, I wonder if this was all part of Lambdadelta's plan. That she actually wanted Erika to end the game early, so that she wouldn't have to give any hints towards ShKanon.
An interesting thought, but I kinda doubt it? Like, even if it was Lambda's plan, she would still presumably have to have an entire scenario prepared, anyway. Similarly to how BATTLER needed to have an entire Dawn scenario prepared, whether Genius-Battler was true or not. And if we take Our Confessions into account, it's blatantly a concern of the author that "okay, I need to give Shannon or Kanon a reasonable excuse to not be present for awhile", whereas End just kinda ignores them entirely. XD
[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo
Jokes apart I think there's a chance that "kinzo's corpse" was a dummy and not a real corpse.
I always thought that ran afoul of Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!, from EP4, which was used to deny tyheories like this person prepared a fake corpse and hid away, giving them the alibi of death while commiting murders.
Also, I guess it exists, but nobody's translated the "17 Year Old Angels" thing? Too bad, that sounds hilarious. About the voice, well ... Lion DOES pretty much have a girls voice in Nocturne, which was kind of a disappointment. Kanon, though, is pretty reasonable described as seeming like a late bloomer. Hell, I have a male friend several years older than me who's still occasionally mistaken for his mother on the phone.
Also, I guess it exists, but nobody's translated the "17 Year Old Angels" thing? Too bad, that sounds hilarious.
I did a translation for a friend awhile ago...I thought it already existed in translated form, that's why I never posted it, but here you go.
Not really much time right now, but I will reply to some stuff later I think.
Spoiler for Angel of 17 years TIP:
Angel of 17 years
East/Shi-44a*
07th Expansion
--------------------------------------------
４４
Angel of 17 years
Umineko no naku koro ni
New Release:
Big Brother Battler Absolute Uke**
--------------------------------------------- 11pm
Ariake International Exhibition Hall、
East Hall 5、East/Shi-44-a Angel of 17 years
Here is not the end of the liiiine!! Right now it's at the corner to East Hall Oooooone!!
I'm sorry! Is this here Angel of 17 years?
Ah, sorry. The queue is outside. Would you mind waiting there? I'm sorry, please?
Oh, you're still doing preparations. Can I still place a reservation? I'd like to get 20 copies of the new Battler Absolute Uke one!!
Miss Kotobuki, please draw something for me!! Kyaa, Miss Lia is here too!! Can I please shake your hand?! Kyaaakyaaaa!!
7pm
Tokyo Bay, Ariake Washington Hotel. A suite.
Kanpai.
Ping. The sound of elegant glass reverberated.
We were all sold out around noon. That's what I call a success. How many copies did we bring along today?
10.000. Hohohoho, and we actually sold all of them?!
Ange and Virgilia enjoyed tipped their glasses and enjoyed todays victory and the delicious drinks (of course, at 18, Ange drank alcohol-free ones)
Their circle, Angel of 17 years, was a huge success.
They had become a super major circle, which everybody in the Umineko BL fandom knew about.
The two had already done some stuff here and there before they teamed up, but they never were that famous.
But when they fused together their abilities, it was like a chemical reaction. It was less like flowers blossoming, more like an explosion when their powers combined, and in the blink of an eye they raced towards being a top circle.
10.000 volumes of a set of 3 new Doujin, a fan and a paperbag, totally sold out. So that's what we can do when we work together...
Our reputation in the stores is increasing as well. We already have orders from several BL stores and from Kujira no Ana*** for reprints.
We will take over the whole world of BL from here. Take this, Hongkong Alice Dream Orchestra!!
The queue for Hongkong Alice is always so amazing, isn't it?! What kinda books are they selling anyway?
They do shooting games, BL shooter. You never heard of Môhô****? The main character and the boss of every stage, they're all Shota.
My my, I see, I see...I think I will have to give that game a try. Hohohoho...
And so Ange and Virgilia kept on enjoying their bourgeoise conversation....
Well then. One victory is only the door to the following battle. Even if I acchieved complete victory with big brother's absolute uke doujin, the time is still moving forward. If I have only the same for Winter Comi*****, the readers will get bored!
You're right. I'd kinda like to open up to a new pairing.
What should we do next? Say what you want, I don't mind ommiting big brother for once.
There are so many beautiful pairings we could do, right?! I think we should test them all.
So, let's do a strategy meeting! There's not much time until we have to apply for Winter Comi!
Thanks to it being possible to apply via internet now, they can postpone their application a little more. But it's still rather common for the application deadline for Winter Comi to be only a few days after the end of the Summer Comi.
In other words, they had to think about which stories to do for Winter Comi, while the excitement from Summer Comi was still fresh.
So, be frank. Who x Who?! It all depens on the pairing!
But we also need to have motivation to work with it. We have to decide carefully.
So, why not do a list? So let's start from the top, who do we have?
Well, if we start from the top, first there is...how about Kinzô x Genji?
Virgilia instantly snipped her fingers and their suite started changing slowly, until it had become Kinzô's study.
The bed had also grown a canopy, worthy of a king, and next to it with a BOPP and a BOPP Kinzô and Genji appeared.
....Hmhm. Who's gameboard might we have landed upon now?
Oh, master....might this be the beginning to Lady Beatrice's game again?
I don't know. But whatever, we are the pieces of the witch. My role is, as always, to head towards the thunderstorm and scream, BEATRIIIIICE.
Virgilia whirled her finger around and the two, without their own intent, were moved towards the side of the bed.
...What plan is this?!
I don't know. ...Uhm, why is my hand suddenly on your shoulder?
...my hand is placed on your shoulder as well, master.
Urgh. There are words, boiling up from the back of my throat.....'Genji! My dearest friend!'
It is the same with me, the words are pushing themselves out. 'My master...I yearn for you so deeply...'
'If only you had not been born a man, I would have never had to wed my wife...'
'...My master......these feelings fill me with joy.....but I am naught but furniture. I could never become your companion, master.'
'Aaaah, why must you always call yourself furniture, furniture. Even though you know of my feelings, you always call yourself furniture!' .what am I saying here, Genji?!
....I don't know. 'My master, don't jest...'
'Very well, so you are furniture. ...If you really are furniture, then from this point on, I will allow no resistance and no back talk...' AAAAAH, my body iiiiis...!!
Ma...Maaaasteeeerrrrr!!
Yes, like that. And now a little push to the bed!!
Stop! The master servant relationship is okay and all, but isn' there any twist to it? If not, it's not exciting. Hey, you two, back to the start position!
When Ange clapped her hands, Kinzô's and Genji's bodies sprung up straight and they returned to their original positions once more.
You okay with this? It's exciting if you turn master and servant around. The way you did it before just had no twist to it at all! But if you do it like this...!
Again my body is moving without...! ' .You are so still, Genji. If you are like this, it reminds me of the time we spend together as we were young.'
'....It brings back memories, doesn't it. Of a time when we were not master and servant.'
Aaaah, I can't disobey!! ' Now that I think of it, when you start speaking in such a strict manner. ...It brings back memories of how you talked back then.'
'...................'
'Genji?'
'.....you're getting old, aren't you? Kin-chan!?'
Aaaah, Genji, it is so nostalgic to hear you talk like this...!
I...I am not doing it of my own free will...Why, why am I talking like this...?
And so Genji's arms violently locked around Kinzô's neck.
With a sudden noise Kinzô's body fell back unto the bed.
Aaah, Genji, what are you doing?
I...it is not my intention. My body is moving on it's own!
And so Genji hung over Kinzô, who in turn lay on his bed....
Y'see!! That's how it's done! You understand?!
Hm, sure, I do understand. Junior on senior and reverse pairings are the basic of the basics. ...but, if somebody has grown tired of those basics it all comes back to you, that way we never reach a really good work.
But a double twist only means we return to the same point where there was no twist at all!!
...Ah well. Let's leave this argument aside for now. Let's just search for another pairing.
Yeah, you're right. People searching for Kinzô and Genji are pretty rare anyway. And I really don't wanna draw old people actually.
Then, how about Gohda x Kanon?
Virgilia snapped her fingers, Kinzô and Genji became a cloud of butterflies and vanished, instead this time Gohda and Kanon appeared.
Of course Kanon has to be Seme******, right?!
But what if we twist it around and do Gohda-Seme? Gohda's muscular macho-body is looming over Kanon's white and slender shape...
Wha, what is the meaning of this?! My, my body is so ho...hooooot!!
Wh...why are you suddenly undressing in a place like this...?!
Gohda suddenly felt a burning sensation all through his muscular body. Unable to stand this heat, he exposed the muscles he had built up in front of Kanon.
...Hmph......are you intending to show off now?
Kanon's face flashed and distorted as he turned his gaze away.
Understandable. The strong upperbody that Gohda exposed when he took of his shirt, was something that Kanon could not hinder to yearn for.
...Wha...what the..?! My lips are starting to move...?! 'Gohda......everytime I see them....I get so jealous of all those muscles.'
Kanon? Why all of a sudden?! ...Eeh? My mouth is moving on it's own!! 'Hehehe. A man has to look like this. With a meager body like that, if I may be so frank, you could never defend yourself.'
Hey, what...stop, what the...
....No, no, my arms are moving on their own...
Please, let go of me.......ungh.....
'Hehehehe....A majestic body, isn't it?! .If you don't train properly, you can't even protect yourself...'
Tha...that's none of your business! Let...let go...!!
I already said so, I'm not doing it myself...! ...Aaah, my arms are moving!!
No, stop, let me go, let me go....ngh....gnnnh!
'Is that all you can do? Kanon, you are really cute. Please let me make you regret firsthand that you didn't train your body properly....' wha...aaah....aaaaaaaaaah!!
Go...Gohda....no, stoooooooooooooooooooop!!
Yes, about something like this, hohohoho.
But it's boring without a twist. I would like it better if reversed. The unexpectedly weak Gohda is harrassed, in the truest sense, by the red eyed Kanon, wouldn't that be cool?!
Ange clapped her hands and Kanon's eyes began to glow red.
And with his slender arm he easily twisted Gohda's arms and pushed him down unto the bed instead.
Aaaaouch ouch ouch, it hurts. It really hurts, Kanon!!
'Stop with your miserable wining. You are a proper adult, aren't you?! Hihihihihi.'
Wha, whaat?! Kanon? Kanooon!!
'What is this? Even though you have such a huge frame, you scream like a girl. ...what a pitiful guy you are. And I only have to tease you a little, right here...
'Pu...puaaAAAAaaahh!!' Ka, Kanon, that really tickles, Aahihihihi!!
So, that'd be Kanon x Gohda. You see?! Virgilia, you always kinda miss putting in twists. But even if, I kinda don't wanna draw any Ossan******* characters.
....I don't really like muscle guys being the Uke. I understand if a slim boy is playing that role, but...
So isn't it the king's class to turn exactly that around?! One principle of a pairing is to turn what you'd expect from their appearance to be turned around!
Based on that Juniors on Seniors theory, wouldn't that also mean Battler x Rudolph?
Aah, no, that's all wrong. The basis is, big brother is an absolute Uke. And no matter how you look at Rudolph, he is Seme-Only, right?!
Yeah, you're right. Basically, no matter who you pair Battler up with, he is exclusively Uke, isn't he?! For example, if we'd do Will and Battler, Battler would be the Uke.
Wi, Will x Battler?! My that is....one insteresting pairing, right?!
Hohohohohoho. We really just have to put two guys together and we immediatly make a pairing out of them. That's when our true worth shows, right?!
When Virgilia snapped her fingers, Kanon and Gohda dissappeared and instead, lying on top of each other, Will and Battler appeared on the bed.
Hey?! What the...where am I?! What is this, why in this position?!
Ouch. Don't trash around so much.
That's you Will, right?! For me and you to be on the same stage, that's a pretty unusual scenario, right?
...What I'd rather like to know is, why we are on a bed and why I was summoned here while looming right above you.
I don't really get it myself, but....I smell the presence of a wicked witch. What kind of witch could have called us here like this?
Uhohohohohoho. Welcome to the banquet of the witch of roses********, you two! Well, play sweet music in this world of aesthetics...!!
Aouch ouch, that hurts, Will! Please get off of me!
'Get off of you? ...You, as my dog, are trying to give your master orders?'
What?! What are you talking about?!
I don't know either. 'You are my dog. ...The only thing a dog is allowed to do is bark. Let me hear it. Let me hear your sweet howl again....'
Sto....stop it Will. Stoooooooooooooooop!!!
If you think about it rationally, you could turn it around and make my good-for-nothing big brother a Seme too....normally. A perfect Ikemen********* like Will could actually be kitty that get's totally spoiled, that would be so unexpected. But no, that's no good! Big brother is supposed to be always the absolute Uke, no matter who he's with. That's important. It will even come up in a test.
Not only that, it's also because there's already the Will x Llion pairing, right?! The general rule is, Will can't be paired up with another character.
Virgilia snapped her fingers and Battler vanished into a cloud of butterflies.
But Will remained.
Turned towards the bed, where there was nothing, bent over on all fours.
Battler...? Where did you go? Tch, what kind of side show comes next?
As if in response and to replace Battler, a cloud of butterflies gathered in front of him and formed into the shape of Lion.
......Li, Lion?!
Wi...Will? ...where....are we....
Ngh....my body....on it's own....
Will? What is it?! Wha, wait, what, why....?!
Will's fingers, .started very gently to undo Lion's buttons.
While Lion, blushing, tried to fight against it, Will pushed both of Lion's arms into the bed with one of his hands.
'...now it's time.'
Eh? Wha, what is...
'Your gender. .This time I will make you tell me.'
Wa, wait....! Please, please stop, Will...! Is this some kind of joke?!
'Don't fight against it.....You can't oppose me anyway....'
With a loud clap Ange joined her hands and the two bodies stopped moving in an instant.
Stop, that's no good, no good! Isn't it obvious that Lion has to be the Seme?! Did you really do any research about our fans at all?! Please, start again with offense and defense reversed!
Ange clapped her hands again and Lion brushed Will's hands away.
A, are you arlight, Lion?
......'How dare you just take whatever you want from me.'
Lion?
Th, that's not of my own volition! My lips....my body is moving on it's own!
Lion turned Will over and got on top.
And while he did...his fingers went towards the latters behind....
Pinch...pinchpinchpinchpinch....
Ah, that hurts!! Sto, stop it, ouuuuch!!
'Why are you struggling against it...? ..Please, just relax a little. ...Even if that means that your butt will become soft like Mochi**********...'
What kinda crap are you talking about?! Sh, shit, my body isn't listening to me!
'Just stop resisting. ...With my fingers....I will take you to heaven.'
Hi...hihihihihihi. How is that? This is real Lion x Will! Because I am Justice!!
With a stream of blood running from her nose, the witch of the roses laughed loudly.
But Virgilia seemed to object, with her arms folded in front.
Nevertheless, Lion x Will is something that's almost too much of what is important for the king's class, isn't it?! The exciting part is the well aged Will being the lead here.
....Virgilia, you're into Ossan characters, I see. From the very beginning you had an eye on mixing older guys into the pairings.
Are you against that?! Isn't a middle aged man, with deep knowledge about the upsides and downsides of life, with a slightly out of shape body, the best seasoning, like white and black pepper on good meat? If you ask me, Will x Lion is still way too soft. If Hideyoshi were to intrude on this scene, he could snatch Lion away, that'd really catch my attention!!
Un...uncle Hideyoshi? And he's doing Lion in front of Will...?!
With a bang the door burst open, and...and Hideyoshi in just his underpants came barging in!
'Doesn't that look mighty nice. I could hear ya dirty moaning 'till out in the corridor!'
Un...uncle Hideyoshi?! Thi...this is...!! I mean, why are you dressed like this?!
My...my body's movin' on it's own! M'sorry, would'cha help me please!! 'Kihihi! Right now ya really do look lika broad. Well, girl or not, who cares. I will take a little sampling now anyway.' .No, m'sorry, sorry!!
I've no interest in you uncle Hideyoshi! Ah, no, uncle Hideyoshiiiiiii!!
Li, Lion...!! Da....dammit, my body doesn't move! Who's behind this?! What kind of ill-natured witch?! Even Bernkastel wouldn't have such a disgusting taste!!
Hohohoho. But we Witches of the roses like it to see unlucky scenarios. .Now be obedient and offer us a situation that will become a good offering for the Winter Comi.
Stop. Personally, Lion just isn't an Uke. If somebody is one, than Will is the absolute Uke.
Ange clapped her hands and immediatly Lion flew out from under Hideyoshi and the latter started attacking Will, who was suddenly situated beneath him!
'I tricked ya. .My interest was t'wards ya right from the staaaaart!!' M'sorryyy, I'm not that kinda character!!
'Un, uncle Hideyoshi!! I...I don't care what happens to me. Just....just let Will go...!!'
Uh...UuuuooooaaaAAAAH!! I would rather be ripped to shreds by a gang of caaaats!!
It worked with Rion x Will, so instead of having Hideyoshi x Lion, why not try to arrange this as Junior on Senior as well?!
Ah, I see. Yes, why not, that's possible as well.....But, no, that's no good, I won't let that happen! Will is an absolute Uke, I won't move from that standpoint!
But Lion is being done this and that to by a filthy old man! If the absolute Uke Will suddenly turned out to be a Seme, wouldn't that be the perfect twist?!
So, Will attacks Hideyoshi and takes back Lion, and that leads to Will x Lion? But then it's a double twist again and we're back to having no twist!
No, no, think about it, Will turns the tables on Hideyoshi and then he ends up taking both of them! It's better the dirtier the Seme actually is! Through that, the beauty and fragility of the Uke can really shine! Aah, I'm getting all excited, this tension, we need a name!! We need to draw this plot at once, come on, come on!
....That's really like you, Virgilia. You say the most terrible things in a totally cool manner, and give them a name. That leaves me speechless, and envious....But, I'm really sorry, I really don't want my pens to spit out Hideyoshi's butt!!
Ange, you really don't understand anything, do you?! A beautiful white rose only becomes prettier with an unsightly piece of might hanging over it!!
But an unsightly piece of meat is an unsightly piece of meat, no matter how you draw it!!
But wouldn't it be lovely if Battler was attacked by Hideyoshi?!
Hmm....hmmm, how about that. ...wait a second. My poor imagination can't seem to produce that scene in my brain...
Hohoho. Well then, let us stage it on the gameboard!
'Now Battler, just be patient a little, 'kay? Soon it'll be over. M'sorry, sorry, alright!'
GYAA!! Somebody heeeeeelp!! I hate this witch's game!! Just kill meeeee!!
I don' wanna do this!! Please someone kill meeeee!!
Uaargh, I'LL PUKE!! No good, no, no, absolutely no! No matter how much of an Uke my big brother is, Hideyoshi x Battler just doesn't work!
Then how about the other way around? 'Hey, Uncle Hideyoshi. You're in real good shape for your age. How about letting a guy younger than your son have a little fun with you....'. how about that?
Black Battler...! Well, yeah, that wouldn't be that bad...Black and white Battler sure both have their charm. Well, Black Battler could....
Virgilia snapped her fingers loudly and gave birth to Ange's idea...
On top of the bed, two Battlers took shape.
The Battler being pinned down was the Battler we all know pretty well.
The Battler pinning him down somehow had a nihilistic and wild aura about him.
'....Battler, I will free the true essence of your heart...'
What is this now, I can't even move my body...!
'Hihihihi....I understand your true hearts desire, just by us being the same Battler...'
Sto....stop that nonsense, ah, aaaaah!!
'Now, obey me, ...let go of your defense...yes, yes, like that....you're a good boy....
No, stoooop. No....no further...aaaaaAAAhhhAhh!!
'You're pretty noisy....I will have to shut you up...'
What's this even supposed to mean?! Hiiiiih!! Somebody heeelp! MUUUUM!!
Isn't Seme-Battler just wonderful as well?! A good replacement for that unsightly meatpile Hideyoshi... How about it? Are you getting used to Battler being a Seme?
Hmm, hmmmm, sure, it's not that bad...It's horrible!! And by the way Virgilia, stop it! Get your hands off Hideyoshi! You'll only make me stop drawing old men all together!!
If BL was curry rice, then middle aged men would be the sauce!! Because they are already advanced in age, they bring out the vivid white of the rice even more!
If anything they are like pickled leed as a sidedish!!
Well then Ange, how about a compromise? What would you say if we make them young?
We could stage it in the younger years of Krauss, Rudolph and Hideyoshi....
Hmm, let's see...It's okay, but not great.
Could you even draw them properly if we were to make them young?
Wouldn't they still be old men on the inside?! If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to feel that middle aged men attraction, wouldn't you?!
Why can't you understand the principles of this world? Just look at it and understand! The harmony between middle aged men turned young again!!
And with a bang!
'Rudolph. .You seem to forget your respect in front of your older brother!'
'What are you planning to do, big brother?! No, stop...!!'
Wouldn't Ronovitalized or Boy-Kinzô be splendid as well?!
Hmm, let's see.... Even if they are young, I just can't stand beards. That means, no matter if they are young or not, just stop, let's move away from the old men!
Ange, you just don't understand the fine points of mature men!! Why don't you understand the deepness of the world of men?!
And with another bang!
'Pukuku. Master Kinzô. Even if I look like this....and though I do love you and do not care about the gender of anybody, why can't we....?'
'It is a shitty life isn't it?! Let us go insane...together.'
And then there's, ah yes, the group of 98. How about Okonogi x Amakusa?!
Bang!
'Amakusa, are you still hung up on that girl?'
'I told you I hate talking about the past, Okonogi, Sir.'
'That is true, well then I shall make you forget about the past. If you don't mind. It's an order of your boss anyway....'
'He....cool....'
Stop, stop!!! I see the demand for that, but I'm not really keen on drawing BL on the people of '98!!
Well then, how about Hachijô Tôya? Of course I'm not talking about Ikuko!
What the...who would we pair him up with? There's just no partner for him. And I told you, I wanna step away from the old men!!
Wouldn't it be just perfect if Tôya were to be assaulted by Black Battler?! Why can't you just understand this world, Ange?!
Bang!
'How long are you planning on denying me....? You know it, don't you? I am you and you are me. Whatever you are desiring, I know about all of it ..and I can grant you all of it .in all of the world only I can do that....'
'Stop it....stop it, Battler.... I am not Battler...I am Tôya...Stop,....Stoooooop!! Do...don't go in...inside me...unnngh, aah!!'
I don't dislike it, visually I don't dislike it at all! But I told you that I don't like old men. Even if they look young, I don't want to draw them!!
Even though the world is made of one half women and one half men, one half of the men is middle aged men!!
....Virgilia. There is one thing that I became convinced of during this argument.
Yes, I as well understood one thing.
Virgilia! I can and will not, in any way, go along with your Ossan fetish!! So who draws for you?! Who tones the pages?! I do, I!! I will not pain myself by using my pen to draw any old men asses or whatever!!!
Ange, your outlook on life is too narrow!! You say you try to insert a twist into it, but the only thing I see are basics over basics!! The first thing you have to twist around is after all the pairing!! And above all, if you don't understand the beauty of Ossan, then stop telling BL stories!!
What the...you perverted witch!! You are nothing more than an Omake*********** for the circle created through my pen!!
You dare to say this, even though it didn't even leave the cradle until I gave this circle a name!! Just shut up and folow draw the manuscript according to my knowledge of BL trends.
How much of your shitty, boring BL novels did you sell?! It's all thanks to my drawing ability!!
YOOOOUUUUU!!! YOU DARE TALK TO ME, LIKE THAT LITTLE GIRL?!?!?
WHAT IS IT, IN THE MOOD FOR A FIGHT?! YOU OLD BAG!!!
.and so the popular circle, which had appeared like a shooting star, Angel of 17 years dissappeared like one as well, along with this legend.
But their passion for BL runs hot through the veins of these girls even now.
It is not like they broke up their friendship...or as if their enthusiasm suddenly had run dry.
Even today they are, on some event, publishing the passion they have turned into manuscripts....
Well. Originally I'm from a place towards the center of the island. But isn't it nice that you can come here to buy stuff you like and can come into contact with people of similar taste, all relaxed. Not only that, but you can talk with the people of the neighbouring circle. ...Oh yeah, my space is right here.
Ange's passion hasn't cooled down, even now.
To have had one circle together with Virigilia, called Angel of 17 years, was after all a true momentary miracle.
After that, Ange's Dôjin-circle never again got a place at the wall.
There was a proper line at her stand, but never again did it expand all over East-Hall.
Well, it's best if the action suits your body. Comike is not about how much you sell. It's about publishing the things that you yourself love.
It's not about what is popular right now.
You just draw what you like how you like and if it's appreciated that's the best of course.
This time Ange applied as a circle about The Night the Spider Lilies bloom.
.Of course all BL.
Now that I greeted my neighbours, I'd better start preparing everything. ...Oh hello, how are you. Please come again later.
Ohohohohoho. Hello. I think I will....
Ah, it's you, Virgilia!! I didn't recognize you without make-up!!
Ange...!! It's nice to see that the make-up on your face and neck are different shades again, Ohohohoho!!
GAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!
You would have thought they would now engage in a fight, but as the staff of the preparation committe came passing through, they pretended not to know each other, just like an urban champion....
...Well, we both progressed on the road that we liked best. So wouldn't it be better to just accept the others route as well?
I think so too. I was immature as well. Let's just enjoy each others doujin work.
So, do we reconcile?
Let's do that. As two people who love BL.
So the two finally shook hands.
And so, they stopped quarreling about their past disagreement.
So, you are writing novels, Virgilia?
Yes. A BL novel about Higanbana. This is my newest work.
Thank you. Please take my new publication as well.
Virgilia's newest work was Tea Gentleman x Headmaster.
Ange's newest publication was Nonomiya x Hikaru.
....as always, all about your Ossan fetish, right?! ....But the headmaster as the Uke, who's supposed to like this?
You aren't better, you still don't understand the fine points of middle aged men.
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!
Just as the sand on the beach, the BL pairings in the world will never run out.
Even if your principles and positions are different, you still want to get along with the people of your Doujin-group of interest....
The End
* Location on the Comiket in Tokyo (The hall sections are divided by Japanese Kana). ** The receiving partner in BL. Bottom. *** Changed name of Doujin/Otaku story Tora no Ana in Akihabara. **** Probably a worldplay on popular shooter game franchise Tôhô. The term is also used as term for homosexuals. The syllables of Homo turned around. ***** Comiket: A famous bi-annual doujin convention in Tokyo. ****** The active partner in BL. Top. ******* Slang term for middle aged men. Men mostly between 30 and 50. ******** Bara no Majô: probably a worldplay on Barazoku, a famous gay manga and novel magazine in the 1970's. It featured mainly muscular, older men to appeal to a larger gay crowd. The term Bara (genre of gay manga with muscular men) is derived from this. ********* A goodlooking younger man with a sense of style. ********** A soft cake made out of rice with a jelly like quality. *********** A free give-away that customers receive when buying special items.
True.. . But to redeem Kinzo, are we sure Kuwadorian Beato is Kinzos child? Maybe Bice was already pragnent?
Forgive my spelling ><
There is a better redemption-theory for Kinzo than that, I think.
Kinzo believed that Beatrice's soul jumped from mother to child at the moment of the mother's death and the child's birth. It's possible that he latched on to this idea and was checking orphanages for a child born nearby at around the same time. Bern created the incest implication because, well, Trollkastle.
That lines up with the lack of any sign that Kuwadorian Beatrice was ever pregnant or that she was concerned about leaving a newborn child behind.
In this theory, the sin that Kinzo regrets so deeply and that Genji was afraid he would repeat is forcing a child to grow up in complete isolation from the outside world, never learning anything about how life or the outside world really are. It is selfish and also harmful to the child, even though it is a lot more understandable and forgivable than incest-pedo-Kinzo.
If Yasu was born a boy but sustained severe genital injuries in the fall from the cliff, the people deciding her future might not have seen any alternative to her being brought up as a girl.
Hum... how this would help? Just because he sustained genital injury this wouldn't turn him into a girl...
Plus I've always thought that, if they were to change Yasu's sex, then it would be pointless to also change his/her age.
Changing his/her sex would be... radical enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
I did a translation for a friend awhile ago...I thought it already existed in translated form, that's why I never posted it, but here you go.
Not really much time right now, but I will reply to some stuff later I think.
Thank you so much for the translated script!
...And after reading it I start to think the meta of Umineko was all in Ange's head... it would explain why Battler keeps on failing and has no knowledge of mystery...
I did a translation for a friend awhile ago...I thought it already existed in translated form, that's why I never posted it, but here you go.
Not really much time right now, but I will reply to some stuff later I think.
I posted a translation in my last post and I think about 50min should be enough to finish reading it.
I know we had the discussion about Ryűkishi's questionable sexuality once before...and I know it isn't very nice to speculate about stuff like that...But pleeeease, Ryűkishi, writing stuff like that really doesn't put you in a favourable situation
If it had just been a short little skit, but this is long and elaborate...and he knows the terminology
Not that I'd care if he had certain interests toward that...but it would again explain soooo much of the whole "LOVE CONQUERS ALL" stuff in Umineko...
2012-07-22, 07:54
. But to redeem Kinzo, are we sure Kuwadorian Beato is Kinzos child? Maybe Bice was already pragnent? 
