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Old 2007-06-01, 00:31   Link #1
SpiderBraids
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Dubbing, the good and the bad

I haven't seen this touched on in a while, so here goes. (If it has, just point me to the link.)

What instances have you seen where a change made through dubbing ends up contradicting (or being contradicted by) a later event?

Here's mine. In an episode of Winx Club, a character shoots a plasma sphere at a teacher that she suspects is evil. She does hit him, but there's no harm done with the teacher. In the dub, this is changed to a "truth orb", which is meant to reveal the true nature of the target. So what's the problem?

Well, in a later episode, said teacher is revealed to be a fake when the real one shows up (like the Skinner incident in that really terrible Simpsons ep, only done much better). Even though this is the very kind of thing that the "truth orb" was meant to expose. And the dub never even tries to cover this up (they don't even drop a reference to the orb then).

(And I've had some people tell me that it's possible that she cast the spell wrong, but there's nothing in the footage that indicates such. Eventually, someone did tell me that it's possible that the dubbers didn't know that this was going to happen, which is pretty much the response I wanted.)

Your turn.
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Old 2007-06-01, 00:48   Link #2
Potatochobit
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u have to remember some times the voice timing doesnt match the script timing, so they have to shorten or change words.

but atm i can't think of anything that caused a problem.
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Old 2007-06-01, 01:39   Link #3
Risaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatochobit View Post
u have to remember some times the voice timing doesnt match the script timing, so they have to shorten or change words.
Yeah... that's really the reason why I heavily prefer subs... It's inevitable that some words and things would have to be changed around to fit the timing...
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Old 2007-06-01, 01:58   Link #4
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I've never really had an issue with accuracy. My main issues is with the English VA not matching characters.
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Old 2007-06-01, 02:04   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
I've never really had an issue with accuracy. My main issues is with the English VA not matching characters.
Indeed. If I want accuracy, I turn the subs on
My biggest gripe is bad/unnatural acting, which is just about everywhere. I'm pretty sure it usually isn't the VA's fault, since I've heard the same people perform very well and very badly, so maybe it's an issue with the director.
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Old 2007-06-01, 02:10   Link #6
felix
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With dubs its generally more of an issue with quality control.
I don't think voices have much to do with it. It doesn't really have to match to the last little sound, unless they don't have some horrible accent or something it should be fine. ( horrible as in it really really doesn't fit the character >_< )
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Old 2007-06-01, 02:22   Link #7
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That's not quite the kind of carelessness I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of when dubbers tweak certain parts of the story, making something that happens later make no sense (like the "truth orb" example in the first post).
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Old 2007-06-01, 02:33   Link #8
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Don't forget, Japanese isn't a language that can be translated into good and plain English. Different subbing/dubbing groups can translated an anime into many different version, which basically all end up meaning the same.
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Old 2007-06-01, 03:00   Link #9
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I remember watching an episode of Pokemon with my younger cousin one time where Satoshi (Ash's) dub voice came out of Kasumi (Misty's) mouth for one line.

An example of horrible casting for a dub would be Dark Malik Ishtar's dub voice for Yu-Gi-Oh! In the original Japanese version he sounds very calm and collected to the point where its just creepy (he also seems far more evil this way in how callous and unemotional he is in the scenes, yet you still get a definite undercurrent of malice). Well in the dub he has this grating loud angry sounding voice that he never turns off and it's probably the most overacted role I've ever heard in an anime dub. He sounds far more comical than evil as a result and the character is essentially ruined completely as a villain.
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Old 2007-06-01, 04:03   Link #10
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My best example of what I'm talking about is in Fumoffu, Ren Mikihara and Hayashimizu just sound wrong. Ren sounds like a so-cal airhead instead of a strong sensible quiet girl. Hayashimzu sounds like an spineless git, instead of a confident imposing leader type.

But, looking at the shows that you've mentioned they seemed to have had a few seasons each. I mean, that's a crapload of dialog to translate and comprehend. So it maybe a mistake. But as well as that it could just be a massive plothole, it may not just be the translators fault. From the info provided the subs don't exactly clarify the situation.

What was the "Plasma Sphere" supposed to do in the subs? I assume it was supposed to have a similar effect. It seemed it had no effect anyway, what was their explanation in the subs.
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Old 2007-06-01, 21:00   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
What was the "Plasma Sphere" supposed to do in the subs? I assume it was supposed to have a similar effect. It seemed it had no effect anyway, what was their explanation in the subs.
The Plasma Sphere had destructive powers. I'd link you to a [legal! because it's by the dubbers themselves] online vid clip showing the episode in question, but I doubt that it would be kosher (if it's okay though, I'll post the link later). But here are some parts of my summary of the uncut.

Later, everyone learns about Plasma Spheres (not Truth Orbs... honest!). Professor Palladium gives everyone a warning on proper use. Stella initially volunteers herself to do this, but decides not to upon being warned that it could suck the air out of the room. Amaryl goes up, and learns how to create the Plasma Sphere, using a visualization technique called "inversion". She's good at creating the sphere, but instead of hurling it at one of the targets, she hurls it at Stella instead. Professor Palladium stops it from hitting her, and threatens to expel Amaryl. Oh yeah... PLOT POINT! PLOT POINT!

(Later in the summary)

Tecna lobs the Plasma Sphere she learned earlier at Avalon, doing some damage not only to Avalon but the window behind him as well.

(Full summary here.)

For comparison to the dub, this link should do the trick.

I should also note that (only) 14 episodes passed between this episode and the episode where Avalon is revealed as fake.
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Old 2007-06-02, 13:18   Link #12
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whinge and whine?!!!.....o_O....hmm..good thinking ^^"

ok ermmhh..something thats actually serious about this show..can't think of anything so ill mention the anime that has been murdered because of dubbing..X(

SailorMoon...They made Haruka and Michiru family!!!!..and not to mention the several worst attack phrases like : "Moon cosmic dream action!!"..when the weapon is in crisis mode....-_-
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:09   Link #13
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Worst victim of ENGLISH dubbing? Initial D, hands down. Gangsta speak does NOT belong in anime. The cantonese dub was just as good, if not better, than the original.
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:15   Link #14
krysinello
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Anything by 4 kids and Dragonball Z. Can't stand them. Other then that I find most English dubs to be enjoyable.
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:21   Link #15
SpiderBraids
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Just so to clarify...

We're not really discussing general shoddiness in dubbing, but rather dub changes that create plot holes later because they haven't gotten that far ahead yet.

Maybe I should change the thread title?
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:36   Link #16
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Well then, Orphen has major changed to the script in that it even had several things story line changed. Also 4 kids hack them all up anyways so I was right in that regards.
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Old 2007-06-04, 02:17   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krysinello View Post
Anything by 4 kids and Dragonball Z. Can't stand them. Other then that I find most English dubs to be enjoyable.
so true, i cant stand anything english dubbed.. there are some series done good but most of them are just too bad to be true.. for this reason i preffer subs and the original language

another fine example is Fruits Basket.. i watched it with the dub subs and i didnt understand anything about the so called joke translations... thank god there were 2 subs, one of the original language and another that was a typed version of the dubbed lines
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Old 2007-06-04, 02:19   Link #18
FatPianoBoy
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One example of a dubbing error that could potentially have adverse repercussions: 'sliders' was omitted from Haruhi's 'aliens, time travelers, sliders, and espers' introduction. If a slider ever shows up, it won't be as compelling, and Kyon's remarks about them not having shown up yet won't make any sense.
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Old 2007-06-04, 15:43   Link #19
Tatsumiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderBraids View Post
Just so to clarify...

We're not really discussing general shoddiness in dubbing, but rather dub changes that create plot holes later because they haven't gotten that far ahead yet.

Maybe I should change the thread title?
Aww come on Spidy!...there isn't a topic about dubs yet so why not use this one? XD
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Old 2007-06-04, 16:04   Link #20
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Originally Posted by Risaa View Post
Yeah... that's really the reason why I heavily prefer subs... It's inevitable that some words and things would have to be changed around to fit the timing...
Subs suffer from this timing issue as well. The subtitle scriptwriters have to take readability and the length of the scene into account; you can only put up so much text to be read quickly enough by the average viewer.

Subtitle translations used to get parodied a lot in movies and cartoons, where someone onscreen would utter a single word and the subs would be like a whole paragraph.
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