Gurren-Lagann - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[7Th]

Huh... parody means making fun of, Gurren-Lagann does much more homages than parodies as they aren't making fun of the genre.

[musashiken]

Both FSN and Nadia seem more serious in my opinion, especially FSN's Sakura's story. Can't say anything for Nadia. So aohige can be right in using the word "parody" since GL is quite a funny series. Well perhaps we're that bad in English so can you tell me a better word instead of homage or parody or spoof or whatever?
Maybe mimicry is a better word? I still don't think homage is suitable here in this case since I still don't know the intention behind Nia's scenario. Could be purely coincidental.

Or you are right, it is indeed a "homage" to Nadia/Nono whatever. I don't care about the use of words actually since I get what aohige is trying to convey.

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by aohige

First of all, "Main heroine princess and love interest of the protagonist turing to the enemy side, changing personalities, and donning black skin-tight spandex and standing in the way of the heroes as enemy" is a direct parody of exact same situation in Nadia, made by none other than GAINAX themselves, 14 years prior to FSN.

Nadia turns evil?!

Originally Posted by aohige

I wanna slam some sense and anime history education into these bloggers heads.

Sakura was a really trashy heroin anyway - Nia still has potential to be brought back, she hasn't done anything 'evil'!

[7Th]

Nadia wasn't more serious than Gurren-Lagann... if fact they share a very similar plot development structure even if GL is probably better described as Gunbuster's next incarnation.

As for Nia's condition... we really don't know completely what actually happened to her. For once she wasn't took over like Dark Sakura or infested like Kerrigan in Starcraft, it's either more akin to a second personality waking up or she becoming a DtB's contractor if they actually followed their own "lack of feelings" statements.

[musashiken]

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Nadia turns evil?!



Sakura was a really trashy heroin anyway - Nia still has potential to be brought back, she hasn't done anything 'evil'!

I think the main reason why people think of Sakura is because they both have black spunky tight spandex, a change in personality and magical looking tattoos crawling all over their skins. Not to mention they have several transformation phases too: Happy Sakura/Nia in normal clothing, Evil Sakura/Nia in normal clothing, Evil Sakura/Nia in black spandex + tattoos.

And I like Sakura's story, at least better than Saber. Rin is still the best though. To each his own.

[Guido]

I would refer to this episode as Revelations part one, since it successfully and eagerly answered the multifacetic mysteries regarding the world of Gurren-Lagann.

Spoiler:

Partially, all of my hypotheses were rightly proven.

The planet is indeed the Earth.

What the Anti-Spirals were concerned about was the reckless impulse of Spiral beings. This is drive needed to go beyond one's limits and look ahead to learn in order to grow and to fulfill the last goal of one's existence which is evolution.

But, do really the Anti-Spirals are evil, while the Spiral Knights were the good guys?

The themes of evolution which make Gainax series infamous for shall never be looked up with absolute terms.

I think the Anti-Spirals went to such drastic measures, because the human race in the old age quickly became, as Rossiu literally put it out, an infection. A driving force of destruction aiming higher to the conquest, to feed upon new knowledge to achieve more power.

The Han-Sen tribe may be were just trying to survive and preserve their species. I think the Han-Sen are the direct opposite to humanity, that is they feel comfortable with they have the moment their existence is brought to life and have no innate desire to go beyond their surroundings.

Lord Genome said so, that no matter how much talk or reasoning was attempted it is futile upon the minds of pitiful creature like humans are, because their need for survival and to expand themselves make them fearful of dire situations in which they feel miserable or are about to die.
Simon, unfortunately, set up an example of the dark spectrum. He confronted his comrades and went recklessly against orders or rational thought just to save Nia once it is right now marked that she's past the point of no return.

But the citizens were the real monsters and low scum, the fearful beings that the Anti-Spirals dread so much. They immediately lashed out against the government believing they were lied and scorned. After what Simon and the Gurren Brigade did to bring them up to the surface seven years ago, and then to panic and starting rioting then all I can say is that population is a bunch of unevolved primates.

And it is another note of interesting to point out as I held suspicions about, that Lagann was indeed the last of the ultimate weapons that the Spirals Knights made to combat the Han-Sen.
It is possible that with the war already lost and fearing the doom of the Han-Sen befalling Earth, Lord Genome threw Lagann into the depths of the surface, but he would never have foreseen that a mere human one day would uncover it; Simon.

The mystery of the Ganmen was as well revealed, since they were the mechs that the Spirals fought to deter the Anti-Spirals.

When the Beastmen were in control, and likely their civilization prospered for about a thousand years which was the time that Lord Genome lived, was due that Beastmen were borned without the drive that humans possess; Lord Genome likely used genetic engineering to breed Beastmen without that instinct.

That's why Tepellin wasn't at that level of advancemen as the city of Kamina is in the present timeline, because Beastmen were happy and felt comforted with what their current surroundings provided to them and felt no need for more.

Like I said and posted, indeed, an integral episode of disenmasquerading the mysteries. Practically, the philosophical bulk of the series has been uncovered and will start growing-up at a fast rate once the truth has already been dug up.

Now, we have two mysteries left: Nia and the Anti-Spirals.

[Malintex_Terek]

>>The planet is indeed the Earth.

That information was confirmed at Fanime IIRC. I wasn't in San Jose the day that panel took place, but a number of other folk reported the same information, though incidentally the first real concrete information came from Arlong Park.

[Guardian Enzo]

Y'know, it's not every series that can take not one, but two left turns - and still keep the audience enthralled. First we started off with the "Kamina Arc", which more or less built the series around him - and then abruptly (if not unexpectedly) killed him off. Then we went to a coming-of-age story and romance mixed with the apocalyptic battle sequences. Then, a time jump - and all preconceptions of good and evil are jumbled, as the story shifts to politics and betrayal. Amazing. I love the new arc so far - Simon turned out just as courageous and simplistic as I would have expected, and I love the Nanoha-esque character designs of Gimmy and Darry. What next - Viral teams up with Simon in a rebellion against the despicable Rossiu? Yoko rides in to the rescue?

This one is definitely claiming it's place in the Gainax hierarchy. Very, very good stuff.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Y'know, it's not every series that can take not one, but two left turns - and still keep the audience enthralled. First we started off with the "Kamina Arc", which more or less built the series around him - and then abruptly (if not unexpectedly) killed him off. Then we went to a coming-of-age story and romance mixed with the apocalyptic battle sequences. Then, a time jump - and all preconceptions of good and evil are jumbled, as the story shifts to politics and betrayal. Amazing. I love the new arc so far - Simon turned out just as courageous and simplistic as I would have expected, and I love the Nanoha-esque character designs of Gimmy and Darry. What next - Viral teams up with Simon in a rebellion against the despicable Rossiu? Yoko rides in to the rescue?

This one is definitely claiming it's place in the Gainax hierarchy. Very, very good stuff.

I wouldn't call Kamina's death abrupt or unexpected. In fact, it was bloody obvious.

As for Rossiu, I believe that the character development of him prior to the time-skip had a meaning, however sublime. If not, they just wasted it. I expect Rossiu to turn heads and make people reevaluate their judgment of him within 2 or 3 episodes time.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

I wouldn't call Kamina's death abrupt or unexpected. In fact, it was bloody obvious.

As for Rossiu, I believe that the character development of him prior to the time-skip had a meaning, however sublime. If not, they just wasted it. I expect Rossiu to turn heads and make people reevaluate their judgment of him within 2 or 3 episodes time.

I wouldn't call it unexpected either. That's why I said "not unexpectedly".

As for Rossiu, well - there have been enough turns in this story to make anything feasible, and he may just be showing himself to be the ultimate pragmatist - much like his philosophical soul-mate, Lord Genome. Still - for "Forehead" to turn on his closest friend so quickly, even if he did think he was doing it for the common good and not to mention basically forming a shadow government behind said friend's back - is pretty sleazy.

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I wouldn't call it unexpected either. That's why I said "not unexpectedly".

As for Rossiu, well - there have been enough turns in this story to make anything feasible, and he may just be showing himself to be the ultimate pragmatist - much like his philosophical soul-mate, Lord Genome. Still - for "Forehead" to turn on his closest friend so quickly, even if he did think he was doing it for the common good and not to mention basically forming a shadow government behind said friend's back - is pretty sleazy.

Indeed, some of the stuff he's been doing is inexcusable. Not even mentioning what they had done with the Gunmen that won the war or even talking to anyone about bringing Lord Genome as a head in a jar. I find his habbit to suround himself with yes men to be quite disturbing.

I half hope that Rossiu doesn't redeem himself, at least not completely.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't know. I find his insistence that Simon mustn't fight - ie, do what got him in power in the first place - pretty suspicious.

My reponse to that is you cant lead from behind. I actually respect Simon for wanting to get out there and fight. If you are willing to order troops into battle to face death you better be willing to do the same. Seeing their leader on the battlefield can raise troops moral which is important in times of conflict

[Grey]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

As for Rossiu, well - there have been enough turns in this story to make anything feasible, and he may just be showing himself to be the ultimate pragmatist - much like his philosophical soul-mate, Lord Genome. Still - for "Forehead" to turn on his closest friend so quickly, even if he did think he was doing it for the common good and not to mention basically forming a shadow government behind said friend's back - is pretty sleazy.

It seems like less of a shadow government and more like a bureaucracy that happens to look towards Rossiu because he was the most willing and able to manage/organize the majority of governmental affairs. We've seen that some of the Dai-Gurren crew appear less than able to handle governmental affairs--it's an occupation that simply doesn't fit them. The same goes for Simon. He was probably placed in the top position--executive/overseer/macro-manager--because he was the de facto leader of the rebellion. However, if Simon didn't take initiative in using that position--the chores of governance not fitting him--his role could easily devolve to a "rubber stamp" position. The influence would then fall to Rossiu, who had been taking on the micro-management of affairs. Throw in Rossiu's perception that the Dai-Gurren governmental members are irresponsible or incompetent slackers, and we can easily see why he eventually starts simply bypassing them. And the result is "secret" activities like the Lord Genome project and the forceful surfacing of the populace.

As for the betrayal...I'm wagering that it's a show for the population. If anything, it would be best for both of them if Simon "broke out" and operated on his own. Operating without the constraints of the "executive" role is best for him, and the scapegoating calms those ungrateful and fickle masses. I'm leaning towards the belief that Rossiu is just operating a different angle on the "good" side, that he would be fine with Simon's break out, and that things will eventually reconcile. Having Rossiu and his government collapse would kinda screw the possibility of a decent counter-attack against the Anti-Spirals, though it's entirely possible that he and his followers will get shafted.

[Ninjacat]

Simon wasn't much of a leader anyway. He was leading the fight more because he had Gurren-Lagann and he was REALLY motivated. The Gurren Dan was more than happy to support him too.

But let's face it, Nia was the one with the charisma. She was the one keeping the team working together, she was the one keeping troops focused when they were starting to run around like a pack of panicked chickens. She would have been perfect for the current crisis too; put up a big hollogram of her just in frot of the crowd and have her work her magic, telling them to stop panicking as they are dealing with the currnet crisis, and all will be OK in a few days, and voilà! No more rioting.

Now, having this very charismatic individual appear on every monitor in the city saying how she's about to slaughter the entire human race is not helping morale too much...

[Nvis]

Wow, if the Government consisted of those few baffoons, as a citizen, I would be very worried.

Rossiu & Dayakka probably are the most suited for positions in the Government from the former Gurren Brigade.

[kitten320]

People sure forget things fast... Give them home back? If not Simon, they still would be eating dirt!

[darkdarkdark]

I agree. People treat Simon like crap. He is the damn reason that they are free in the first place. Without him, who would of kicked all that Genome ass? Nobody. All those whiny villagers should sit down. /rant over.

[kitten320]

Yeh, very ungreatful. And Rosiul also acts like an ass...

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Yeh, very ungreatful. And Rosiul also acts like an ass...

More like huge douchebag.