The Blend of Serious Action and Sexual Fanservice in shows like Strike Witches

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Traece

But with Highschool of the Dead, and with that scene, it's just too much still. Even though there are scenes where the fanservice is clearly supposed to be more for humor, it still feels like too much. The way they animate the breasts bouncing around the bullet and such is just overkill. !

I find it "hilariously stupid" but I don't hate it... I knew that was coming from an ecchi anime.

I find it also "legendary"....

[Traece]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I find it "hilariously stupid" but I don't hate it... I knew that was coming from an ecchi anime.

I find it also "legendary"....

Just because your animator is a !!Legendary Animatordwarf!! doesn't mean that his work is good.

It just means that he gets put in the history file.

Yeah, it's no surprise from a comedy ecchi. I just dislike when it gets excessive and distasteful. I do like it when they break the fourth wall for fanservice though. Breaking the fourth wall is a surefire way to get a laugh out of me.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Traece

It's funny, but it stops being funny when they've tried so very hard. With that gif, I got to a: "I'm sorry, but that's just stupid," point. There has to be some moderation even if you're going for hilarious-level fanservice.

Moderation would haver killed the scene for me,if you're gonna cross the line might as well really cross it,I'll quote Roger Ebert

I may disapprove of a movie for going too far, and yet have a sneaky regard for a movie that goes much, much farther than merely too far.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I did.

Why would you do that?

I was curious. Have you never been curious before? Plus, I was in the mood for some Magical Sci-Fi Girl action, and the episode was just a click away from me. I've never been a "preview enthusiast" unless it's for some titles that I've been waiting for (e.g. Gundam Unicorn, Evangelion Rebuild, etc). Is there something wrong with that?

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Traece

Just because your animator is a !!Legendary Animatordwarf!! doesn't mean that his work is good.

It just means that he gets put in the history file. \.

Personally, I don't know the guy.. who ever he is.... but that particular scene equals the Neo's bullet doge in the Matrix...

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Traece

I suspect most people these days will find fanservice to be very distracting and unnecessary. It obviously serves no purpose except behind the fourth wall.

My personal stance on fanservice goes quite a bit beyond "distracting" or "unnecessary". Anime is an media art form, it is constructed, everything is drawn with at least one person's intentions in mind. Everything in a work of media art is communication, there is nothing which serves any purpose except behind the fourth wall.

In anime, just as any other element, there is "good fanservice" and "bad fanservice", which are both always fully intentional and can therefore never be called simply "unnecessary". Good fanservice (by my definition) is the kind which positively celebrates female sexuality, as a natural part of life which brings universal joy to people, whereas bad fanservice is the derogatory stuff of power fantasies, which objectifies women into mere sexual tools for others' pleasure. Regardless of the context, because of the intentions, I am always able to consciously appreciate and celebrate the former kind of fanservice, whereas I flat out condemn and disapprove of the latter.

However, before that I find any attitude which completely rejects sexuality pretentious, unnatural, and ridiculous. It is incredibly closed-minded to assume that any work with sexual fanservice is automatically devoid of artistic merit. Despite my sizeable concerns with a great deal of the sexuality in the anime industry today, I must object to any attitude which lumps all fanservice in that way together.

It annoys me to see all of these action anime coming out and they're full of fanservice. I hated Highschool of the Dead for that reason, because all it was was fanservice and girls with unrealistic bust sizes slaying zombies. Sure, it's entertaining to some people, but not to critics and not to vocal viewers. The worst thing about it is that it hurts the characters and by doing so it diminishes the quality of the anime overall. The more pointless fanservice I see of a character the less I care about that character, and by that I also care less about what I'm watching. When fanservice shots are a huge part of an anime it becomes an anime centered around a gimmick, which is a fantastic indication that I'm watching something that was intended to get sales and not ratings. I don't want to watch anime pandering to the masses of people that like copious amounts of fanservice. I want to watch quality entertainment.

And so here is the particular case of Highschool of the Dead. While I can hardly defend all of its excesses, in the end I found HotD in fact to be a much more worthy story than most people, even its fans, gave it credit for. Beyond the perhaps standard zombie apocalypse theme of the collapse of human society/moral inhibitions of the world at large, above all what Highschool of the Dead is is a very competent telling of the end of normality, the loss of innocence, and the burning will to live. While it was not always executed with this level of awareness and did unfortunately fall back occasionally into brainless gratuity, those themes where in fact present on an artistic level even in some of the scenes most dripping with sensuality.

Writing HotD off as a cheap brainless cash grab is a disservice to the work of its authors. While I could never quite defend it as high art, it has its own proper integrity as a meaningful story.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

And so here is the particular case of Highschool of the Dead. While I can hardly defend all of its excesses, in the end I found HotD in fact to be a much more worthy story than most people, even its fans, gave it credit for. Beyond the perhaps standard zombie apocalypse theme of the collapse of human society/moral inhibitions of the world at large, above all what Highschool of the Dead is is a very competent telling of the end of normality, the loss of innocence, and the burning will to live. While it was not always executed with this level of awareness and did unfortunately fall back occasionally into brainless gratuity, those themes where in fact present on an artistic level even in some of the scenes most dripping with sensuality.

Writing HotD off as a cheap brainless cash grab is a disservice to the work of its authors. While I could never quite defend it as high art, it has its own proper integrity as a meaningful story.

It's just sad that the director of the anime failed to convey that part of the manga I loved, imo. And mostly focused on the service. I would recommend the manga, but the anime, nope.

[Marcus H.]

I was curious. Have you never been curious before? Plus, I was in the mood for some Magical Sci-Fi Girl action, and the episode was just a click away from me. I've never been a "preview enthusiast" unless it's for some titles that I've been waiting for (e.g. Gundam Unicorn, Evangelion Rebuild, etc). Is there something wrong with that?

I don't think it's wrong, but PVs are usually there to avoid viewers from going "WTF, this is NOT what I have expected" when it comes to animation and the voices involved. You may have your reasons for opting out of previews, but I think it's a waste to avoid watching the PVs.

[Malkuth]

I don't know why this is such a big deal... Tenjou Tenge, Gantz, Air Gear, Ikkitousen, and many other manga had a lot of ecchi panels during very brutal and dramatic action scenes... actually, having what people erroneously refer to as fan-service most of the times enhanced the emotional impact of a scene... The only example that I can think of (in drawn and live) that such a scene worked without actually showing anything was a film from Mikael Haneke (I hope I spelled that right) in the late '90s that all popular critics found disgusting

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I don't think it's wrong, but PVs are usually there to avoid viewers from going "WTF, this is NOT what I have expected" when it comes to animation and the voices involved. You may have your reasons for opting out of previews, but I think it's a waste to avoid watching the PVs.

Yes, I have my own reasons, kinda like how many movie critics prefer not to see movie trailers and just go directly to the real deal. I won’t post my reasons here coz, chances are, you’re gonna argue it anyway even though it’s my preference. I don't want to further involved into pointless arguments, just in case .

[Marcus H.]

^ I have no intentions either.

BTW, that Oppai Matrix really gets more ridiculous every time I watch it.

[judasmartel]

I don't mind fanservice in action scenes. I should not concern myself about my sexual fantasies while anime girls are in the heat of serious battle. So I just focus on the fights themselves.

Tenjou Tenge was my first test on this thing. Sure, there were a lot of panty shots from the female fighters, but I didn't have time to focus on those when I am so absorbed into watching them fight.

[SilverSyko]

While this usually isn't something I particularly have a problem with, if said fanservice is very blatant, exaggerated or bordering on actual nudity, then it gets a bit too ridiculous for me. Something like the odd panty-shot isn't much of a problem considering the thing is inevitable if the character is wearing a skirt.

Like already mentioned above, part of the reason I don't like HOTD is because of the fanservice just being way too exaggerated to take seriously. (Though my main reason is because it's a zombie apocalypse series which I just don't like in general.)

Characters fighting nearly stark naked kills an action scene for me too.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

While this usually isn't something I particularly have a problem with, if said fanservice is very blatant, exaggerated or bordering on actual nudity, then it gets a bit too ridiculous for me. Something like the odd panty-shot isn't much of a problem considering the thing is inevitable if the character is wearing a skirt.

Like already mentioned above, part of the reason I don't like HOTD is because of the fanservice just being way too exaggerated to take seriously. (Though my main reason is because it's a zombie apocalypse series which I just don't like in general.)

Characters fighting nearly stark naked kills an action scene for me too.

If Naked Weapon (not an anime anyway, but I guess...) didn't show me any better...

[Archon_Wing]

Oi, this thread feels a bit narrow.

Personally, I think that fanservice during action scenes need to be more subtle. It's fine if we steal glimpses now and then, but in general, it would be annoying to randomly zoom on some chick's panties. In otherwise, save fanservice, for fanservice moments. Which could be for combat, but that's just rarer to justify.

I haven't seen VRO, but the writer of this did do Mai-HiME, which has tons of fanservice, but knew when to segregate its fanservice. Like you wouldn't have a heartbreaking scene of anger between two former friends and then suddenly have someone's boobs flop just because. And even if they did, you'd need to rewind.

But this is just me. I don't even like gratuitous scenes in fanservice scenes. There's no problem with showing off characters in sexy outfits that emphasize parts of their body. It is annoying if they treat their boobs like another character and have them bounce around for no reason because you have nothing better to put on the screen. It gives the show an unneeded voyeuristic appeal.

Not all fanservice derides a character as a pack of meat though. Only badly thought out, uncreative ones do.

Though the HOTD thing actually reminds me of something that VRO might be doing right. In general, anime tends to have overly sized boobs then overly sized behinds. It is very rare for people to complain "oh dude, that ass is tumorous, too huge, and bouncy". So even from an artist perspective, someone's behind is notably harder to screw up. And they don't suffer from the jiggle mechanics of lesser ecchi series. I'd think Strike Witches would follow the same principle.

And it's actaully more according to the laws of physics that people's butts will stick out given their outfits. In fact, there should be more panty shots in anime if we were going the realism route.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Let's flip the issue -- if there were an action series with an all male cast where the fight scenes were full of butt and crotch shots, how many people here would watch it? How many would complain about the distraction?

[Midonin]

It's not the kind of series I would likely watch in the first place, but I would acknowledge it has an audience who probably enjoys it as much as I enjoy something like Manyuu or Strike Witches. Female anime fans need love, too.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Let's flip the issue -- if there were an action series with an all male cast where the fight scenes were full of butt and crotch shots, how many people here would watch it? How many would complain about the distraction?

Not completely fair since I don't like female crotch shots either and that's typically not the focus. You'd be focusing on the same places typically. It's not like shirtless men in anime are uncommon. And of course we always have those tight body suits in many a mecha anime. I ignore all manservice due to who I am, but I'd assume that's what goes.

I wouldn't like it, definitely. But if the show was based on the appeal of really sexy men, I would have no interest and not watch said series in the first place. Also, complaining about such shows so far out of my demographic would be futile

Though I'm not really opposed to equality for the most part...

*I will say though. If a show was meant to have trashy fanservice, it's unreasonable for expect it not to. However, I suppose that doesn't preclude its own existence being subject to criticism. But such things must be taken into stride.

**Still, still there is no doubt that female characters are more prone to being portrayed as sexual objects.

[Reckoner]

The argument seems to be that because the series never pretended to be anything else, then the criticism of it for being what it is kind of misses the point and is not really valid. Going into a show like Strike Witches and expecting it not to feature fanservice is indeed naive, however, this does not mean someone has to respect what it is fundamentally. You can make a dish out of dog poop and call it food, but I sure as hell won't accept that as food. Strike witches to me is a garbage concept, and I will never hesitate to point it out as such. There is nothing invalid by pointing out the inherent flaws of a work conceptually.


In before "that's your opinion man" / "that's subjetive."

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Let's flip the issue -- if there were an action series with an all male cast where the fight scenes were full of butt and crotch shots, how many people here would watch it? How many would complain about the distraction?

Oh please, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure have a LOT of homoerotic manservice all over it, it's just so over-the-top, oozing with bromance, larger than life and sincere, as in the author really believes in his story, that the audience fully embrace it.