2010-04-25, 13:33 | Link #9161 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Also I thought this was in important hint in the meta world in episode 2 Battler: "Dad often tellls me something. He says that there's nothing as scary as contracts... He said that it's only natural that people who agree without reading them thoroughly will be chewed to the bone. ...He made a killing through vice..."
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2010-04-25, 13:37 | Link #9162 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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But in most cases, Battler hangs out very tightly with the other cousins, he gets left completely alone very rarely. Anyone who suspects Battler in particular will usually have to suspect the other cousins of collusion with him to provide an alibi, and no accusations of this kind are ever stated. It's more like everyone is ignoring that Battler even exists, and Battler tends to observe other people's conversations more readily than he participates in them himself... ...wait a minute, what if it's Battler who doesn't actually exist?
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2010-04-25, 13:40 | Link #9164 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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In the case the murderer knows of the endgame explosion, he wouldn't bother killing anyone. Why going through that hassle if everyone is going to die anyway? So in this case the one who wants to cover him, wouldn't have anything to cover. In the case the murderer doesn't know of the endgame explosion, then we have two cases: the one who wants to cover him, knows of the endgame explosion, but in that case the endgame explosion would be the most effective way to cover everything up, so there wouldn't be actually any need to make fake murderers and closed rooms. In the cases both of them do not know... well you have something incredibly improbable. Either you have not 2 but 3 different parties with different agenda: murderer, person who covers the murderer, explosion murderer. Or 2 plans and an unfortunate incident: murderer, person who cover the murderer, and natural event that just happens to solve everyone's problems permanently. this path of reasonings doesn't seem very promising to me. I think the old idea that someone is trying to create a fake murder mistery and a killer of opportunity jumps in killing everyone for real, is by far more credible.
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2010-04-25, 13:49 | Link #9165 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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By the way, the red text is:
朱志香の死体発見時、朱志香の部屋にいたのは、戦人、譲治、真里亞、楼座、源次、郷田、紗音、熊沢、南條の みだった。 死体の朱志香ももちろん含む。 よって、朱志香の部屋の件、そしてこの使用人室の件の両方について、そなたが認識していた以外の人間は存在 しない。 When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room [Whoops, the corpse of] Jessica is also included Therefore, both in the case of Jessica's room and the case in this servants' room, no humans exist that are you were not aware of Notice the 死体 is conveniently outside the red in that second line. But it's inside the red at 朱志香の死体発見時. But once again 朱志香の死体発見時 forms a full noun or whatever that part of grammar is called... By the way, I'm not sure where that 'Whoops' comes from. Maybe a bad translation from http://umineko.wikia.com/ |
2010-04-25, 13:51 | Link #9167 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Also as LyricalAura explained above, in this context stakes as a 'don't worry he's dead' message may have a completely different motivation. Quote:
These ideas are closely related anyway... The problem with the fake murder mystery and a killer of opportunity 'as is' is that there is a need to explain why someone engaging in a fake murder mystery plot would continue to do so when it is obvious real murders have started happening, perpetrated by someone who is not them, and potentially implicating them in the real murders when they aren't guilty.
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2010-04-25, 13:58 | Link #9168 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Can we really be sure of that? With Ep5 you have 6 people that the TIPS claim having their head almost severed, who then walk away by their own.
With such a thing being possible how can you be sure that any body that was found in any previous episode was actually dead? Even red truth confirmations unless they happen in the exact moment people see the bodies aren't worth much, and even in that case you can't tell if the murder happened after the staking or if the bodies you see are actually bodies rather than some kind of special effect fake body.
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2010-04-25, 14:03 | Link #9169 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-04-25, 14:03 | Link #9170 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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One, most people seem to ignore both Battler and Maria, but not to the point that you could argue they're not there. They listen to them sometimes, at least as often as anyone listens to Erika in ep5, and probably more. Two, remember that while Battler is left alone very rarely, the characters he isn't with are not necessarily aware of this. Sure, you can see Battler with George, leave for a while, and come back to find Battler with George, but you don't know they stuck together the whole time. In ep2 especially, the servants spend some time away... Three, and semi-unrelated: Did you happen to notice how odd George and Shannon were on the beach in ep1 when "listening" to Maria talk about magic? I daresay they're coaching her. George also provides some information about her symbols and charms completely unsolicited with no prompting whatsoever from Maria or Shannon. If Shannontrice is true, then it's very possible she's his conduit for arcane knowledge, but generally speaking it's George who seems to know things, not Shannon. And if Shannon's not even the one doing the epitaph murders (or "murders" if it's a fake plot), and that's Genji or Kumasawa's brainchild, where the hell is George learning all this stuff? EDIT: By the way, in ep4 Gaap refers to George as a "king." While she isn't using a chess metaphor, I believe he's one of the only people ever referred to as a king. |
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2010-04-25, 14:09 | Link #9173 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-04-25, 14:11 | Link #9174 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Actually it makes it very hard to call George a Beatrice candidate in any form if he's a king, as Beatrice is usually a Queen (or lesser piece). However, if George were the mastermind, suddenly the metaphor makes sense: He has limited mobility on his own (gotta keep an alibi and appearances), but if he's controlling at least Shannon somehow, he has access to powerful pieces that can protect him.
EDIT: Looking at it from a gender perspective, Beatrice is generally subservient to some dominating male figure. Kinzo, Battler, George (if you believe she's not the one manipulating him, that is). The sincerity of these "kings" (Ronove does call Battler "your majesty") seems to vary, of course, and only Battler seems inclined to put Beatrice on a level even to him. Could Battler's sin be a broken promise driving Shannon to George, giving him the piece he needed for some end of his own? |
2010-04-25, 14:17 | Link #9175 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-04-25, 14:18 | Link #9176 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-04-25, 14:20 | Link #9177 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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In Ep2, where he is with Shannon, he is actually described going on a rather dangerous adventure to recover the heirloom mirror which, as described, essentially amounts to using a magic item against the witch directly. In all three cases, it seems like the intent and interest in magic is there but the knowledge is rather cursory unlike what Maria displays. ...What if George and Beatrice actually have a common teacher whom Beatrice took seriously but George did not until the going got tough?
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2010-04-25, 14:20 | Link #9178 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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The death of the mastermind would not necessarily stop his or her minions if:
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2010-04-25, 14:23 | Link #9179 | |
Guitar Man
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brazil
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おっと、死体の#朱志香ももちろん含む# おっと is the Whoops
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2010-04-25, 14:25 | Link #9180 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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If it's Jessica it'll probably be boxing match or a Solid Snake (Battler) vs Liquid snake (Jessica) kind of Battle. Also if Battler killing the culprit was needed to stop the bomb that'd be neat twist. It could be remote controlled or something.
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