Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[totoum]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

You can't really blame the audience through. Even the grandma went from dramatically smacking young girls in ep 1/2 to throwing Ohana out of her room in a comedic manner in ep 6(when she suggested to heighten the Chinese slits)

And she threw Ohana a bucket out the window in a comedic manner in episode 1.In fact,it's the first thing we see her do in the show.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

You can't really blame the audience through. Even the grandma went from dramatically smacking young girls in ep 1/2 to throwing Ohana out of her room in a comedic manner in ep 6(when she suggested to heighten the Chinese slits)

That was because a customer had a mattress dumped on them. Obviously Grandma rates something bad happening much worse than one of the waitresses suggesting something somewhat lewd.

[Malkuth]

Identity Crisis?!? I'm with Kanon and the rest on this one... she/they know(s) very well what they want to have; a drama, presented from an energetic and optimistic character's point of view, therefore lightened with comedic situation that are over-exaggerated. The thing is that with only two episodes it was not immediately apparent to everyone, and given the other heavier show from the same writter this season, many forced their live-soap-opera-tear-jerking expectation in the show, feeling manipulated now

Don't bash, I'm exaggerating a little bit

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I never really saw the scene as serious, Ohana's narration of her first encounter with Minko kind of killed the possibility of that for me.

I took the scene as serious because Minchi had a legitimate reason for being ticked off there. She was ticked off because Ohana was pulling out her plants, which was in fact a pretty impulsive and thoughtless thing for Ohana to do given that she had just arrived at a brand new place with complete strangers to her living and working there. Minchi's angry reply of "Die!" is, yes, a bit over the top, but because she had a legitimate reason to be peeved (i.e this wasn't like your classic tsundere "jumping to conclusions" misunderstanding leading to slapstick comedy) it felt serious to me.

It did kind of make me feel for Ohana and want to give an "Ohana fight-o!" kind of cheer though. This anime throws a lot at her - especially that first arc - but she's always struck me as plucky enough to deal with it. She did get pretty upset at the end of episode one but she's the "get mad, get even" type.

I agree with you here at least. But I guess to me "plucky enough to deal with it" translates as "strong enough to overcome daunting situations" and that's almost as dramatic/serious as it gets for me.

Originally Posted by acejem

Whilst I personally (only my opinion) consider Toradora to be one of Okada's weaker involvements (of the slice-of-life orientated genre), it did what it perceived to do well because in essence it was a romantic comedy first with some drama elements splashed in. This anime? After another episode-3 like episode, I really don't know what's going on anymore, which is why I half-jokingly called it the "Angel Beats" treatment to a friend of mine. If the anime stuck with the mid-ground that was episodes 4 to 6 I would have a fair idea of what was going on.

I very strongly agree with this. This is precisely my own take as well.

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Angel Beats was cursed with having to stuff everything it wanted to do in 13 episodes. This show runs at twice that, and we're just at halfway of the run that Angel Beats had, or 1/4 of this show's entire run. I'd say that's much too short to make a convincingly all-encompassing conclusion to the show, and would likely be only premature.

After 7 episodes of any anime, of any length, viewers should have a pretty good idea of the balance between drama/comedy, dark/uplifting, and serious/lighthearted that the anime is aiming for overall, imo. Of those three scales, the only one I feel confident on making "a call" on is dark/uplifting - Hana-Saku Iroha is clearly aiming more for uplifting than dark.

And I'm perfectly fine with and supportive of that. Indeed, it's now the main reason why I continue to watch this show - its generally happy presentation and sentimentality is something I appreciate.

And again I'd like to echo one of our sentiments that life isn't always hell on earth, nor is it always sugar raindrops and sunshine.

I don't see what that has to do with serious drama vs. lighthearted comedy.

Serious drama can be quite uplifting overall. I mean, seeing characters rise to overcome difficult challenges is inherently dramatic and uplifting, in my view.

To reference a recent anime that's like this, I point to Moshidora.

I favor a life full of it's ups and downs, shifting from the middle of the spectrum and back and forth through its ends, rather than one that's always running through life's gauntlets or life's sunny fields.

Sure, that's fine. And I agree with you on this.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Minchi's angry reply of "Die!" is, yes, a bit over the top, but because she had a legitimate reason to be peeved (i.e this wasn't like your classic tsundere "jumping to conclusions" misunderstanding leading to slapstick comedy) it felt serious to me.

I hate sounding like a broken record but,can you take this face seriously?When you look at that can you really tell me that the staff was going for a dramatic effect and not a comical one?
If so then I guess we're looking at the same thing but not interpetting them the same way at all.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

I hate sounding like a broken record but,can you take this face seriously?

... Why exactly is that not serious, or very comedic?

I mean, I've seen comedic facial distortion in anime. Heck, this anime episode itself has it with how Tomoe grinded her teeth so expressively in one scene.

Minchi's "Die" expression there seems mild and restrained to me compared to how Tomoe expresses herself in many scenes in Episode 7.

[FatPianoBoy]

That scene was comedic in its presentation, but somewhat dramatic in context. It was funny because it was completely opposite of what Ohana intended and expected, and a bit dramatic because it marked the beginning of the end of her optimism about moving to a new place. The first two episodes were full of well-written, tastefully directed bits like that.

Compare that level of presentation with, say, Tomoe's growling animal teeth from episode seven, and I think the line between lighthearted/down-to-earth and wacky/over-the-top begins to become clearer.

[Haak]

I don't think it has an identity crisis either. Plenty of episodes start off in an episodic "It's this characters limelight this episode" style. It's just that HSI has spent a bit longer than usual on it.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

That scene was comedic in its presentation, but somewhat dramatic in context. It was funny because it was completely opposite of what Ohana intended and expected, and a bit dramatic because it marked the beginning of the end of her optimism about moving to a new place. The first two episodes were full of well-written, tastefully directed bits like that.

Compare that level of presentation with, say, Tomoe's growling animal teeth from episode seven

Very well put. Excellent post.

And this is part of the reason why I do think that this anime, right now, has a bit of an identity crisis.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

... Why exactly is that not serious, or very comedic?

Then I guess we really do see something different while looking at the same thing,I can't look at that with a straight face,any seriousness is lost to me when I see that therefore I just can't take that scene seriously.

Which I guess explains why it feels like I havn't been watching the same first two episodes as other people,seems like I've been laughing at a few scenes that others found quite serious.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

Then I guess we really do see something different while looking at the same thing,I can't look at that with a straight face,any seriousness is lost to me when I see that therefore I just can't take that scene seriously.

Which I guess explains why it feels like I havn't been watching the same first two episodes as other people,seems like I've been laughing at a few scenes that others found quite serious.

Maybe it comes down to presentation vs. context, as FatPianoBoy alluded to.

What I focused in on the most in the first two episodes of this anime was the context that its scenes were placed within, and that's a big reason why I found those episodes pretty dramatic and serious.

But from talking to you and others, I will say that if my focus was more on presentation and less on context, maybe I would have seen it as more comedic than what I did, *shrugs shoulders*.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by totoum

And she threw Ohana a bucket out the window in a comedic manner in episode 1.In fact,it's the first thing we see her do in the show.

I think we need to make a clear separation here....

There's one which is dramatic in natural but playing in a comedic manner, and one purely just comedy.

The whole drama in the first three episodes were surrounding grandma and then Minko's attitude toward Ohana (Or more accurate, Ohana try to "fit in"). And the whole bucket throwing and non-serious angry faces just make the whole issues less dramatic, does not turn it into comedic... Nothing funny at how grandma force her granddaughter working for her meal as soon as she arrive, or strange girl kept telling you to "Die"

But then we don't have that sort of drama since then. The love triangle event (Minko-Touru, with Yuina) was played in quite dramatic manner, but the event itself was quite hilarious as the whole inn misunderstood the situation. Then wearing skimpy dress to boost the inn's popularity, or Tomoe's plan backfired... also quite comedic in natural. It could hint at something big later (the inn gone bankrupt perhaps). But at this moment it can be considered as fillers

And its till bug me whenever people call this series "slice-of-life".

Edit: well same point with FatPianoBoy

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe it comes down to presentation vs. context, as FatPianoBoy alluded to.
(...)
But from talking to you and others, I will say that if my focus was more on presentation and less on context, maybe I would have seen it as more comedic than what I did, *shrugs shoulders*.

Well from talking with you and others, I will say that if my focus was more on context and less on presentation, maybe I would have seen it as more dramatic than what I did, *shrugs shoulders*.

I think I'm finally starting to understand now

Though I'm still expecting major AnaHano level drama in the second half,I'll eat my words if I'm wrong,not sure if next episode will be the real deal or not,if it is then it's sooner than I expected,we'll see.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

After 7 episodes of any anime, of any length, viewers should have a pretty good idea of the balance between drama/comedy, dark/uplifting, and serious/lighthearted that the anime is aiming for overall, imo. Of those three scales, the only one I feel confident on making "a call" on is dark/uplifting - Hana-Saku Iroha is clearly aiming more for uplifting than dark.

It is why although I gave Angel Beats a pass on certain aspects, "13 episodes" is little more than an excuse. If feature length movies can have a proper story, a 13 episode anime can do it.

After all, if you're biting off more than you could chew, that's nobody's fault but your own.

It is just my feeling that someone on the PA works editing/directing team needs to be fired.

I mean, the first season of Nanoha was ridiculous too in terms of plot and was an anime with severe focus problems, but even it managed to land with dignity instead of flopping all over the place. Yes, I know Nanoha has more than one season, but they can be all viewed as standalone, and at least the first 2 seasons managed to deliver storytelling and characters in this short time span of 13 episodes. In fact....

Spoiler for Angel Beats and Nanoha:

Look at the Naoi conflict. Look at the Fate conflict. One is leagues above the other in emotional impact and resolution. In fact, when I was criticizing AB! on this, I was thinking, just like at Nanoha for how to do it!

Yes, I don't think it's reasonable to project another show's expectations onto another. I didn't like Hana Saku Iroha vs Ano Hana because these two shows are diff rent things. We don't need H-S I to be True Tears, or EF, or Eva, or w/e.

But the reason why I (and others) bring up other examples that work, is because they are examples of good storytelling. Is that not a reasonable expectation? You can still succeed within your own flavor, but that doesn't allow one to shirk these things like nothing

So I'd like to repeat:
1.) Drama and comedy are not mutually exclusive. You can have your cake and eat it too.
2.) Time management is one's own damned fault, if they bite off more they can chew.
3.) Judgement is of course, on what you've already seen, not on what could happen. Thinking of things you have no idea about are useless, but I think it's useful to be critical of something throughout the entire viewing.
4.) Disappointment (?) Hey, I don't think any of us here actually hate the show. If it just ends up some average slice of life, I won't be shedding any tears. But you know what? I refuse to accept the bare minimum. The "If you don't like it, then gtfo" mentality simply doesn't really help the matter of people who like the show, but have a number of issues.

Now clearly, it's nowhere near as bad as say Haruhi or Madoka discussions where people with issues just get shouted down by some ridiculous mob, but hey...

Sure, I can still enjoy it for what it is. Implying otherwise would be silly.

And I'm perfectly fine with and supportive of that. Indeed, it's now the main reason why I continue to watch this show - its generally happy presentation and sentimentality is something I appreciate.

Indeed, that's what gives the show its slight edge over your generic mess. But honestly, I think I only think that due to this seasons' rather tough competition. The edge would be significantly higher last season, or especially one before last.

[Pellissier]

We're going excessively off topic here, this is the episode 7 discussion thread, not the place for summaries or comparisons about the first month and a half of Hanasaku Iroha.

If you wish to proceed this discussion, please move in the generic discussion thread, and allow people who'd wish to talk about episode 7 to discuss it here.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe it comes down to presentation vs. context, as FatPianoBoy alluded to.

What I focused in on the most in the first two episodes of this anime was the context that its scenes were placed within, and that's a big reason why I found those episodes pretty dramatic and serious.

But from talking to you and others, I will say that if my focus was more on presentation and less on context, maybe I would have seen it as more comedic than what I did, *shrugs shoulders*.

I can respect that, I don't look at that scene for in context mainly because I knew as soon as I read the synopsis what kind of show it is.

In addition, when I look at that scene, if I look in the context, then grandma's action is completely illogical in an otherwise logical scene.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

And its till bug me whenever people call this series "slice-of-life".

Stop looking at it as a genre. It was more used as a tag "slice"-of-life mainly due to culture difference and opinions.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

...On Ko... maybe he comes here to finish his own role in this anime... the poor bastard gonna see his unrequited love being crushed to pieces *insert evil laugh* But seriously, Ohana should not end up with one guy out of sympathy. She never notice him, and only started to concern after seeing his sympathetic self and realised the hardship on unrequited love (after looking at Minko). When she is accepted by everyone else in recent episodes, she surely did not concern much about Ko and his current state. But who know, PA showed their ability to pull pairing out from nowhere *coughangelbeatscough*. I won't be surprised if they just go out of logic to pull up some random romance

It's just as amazing to me that some people want to douse any small glow of romance as it must be to them that I want to fan whatever embers there may be, lol.

In ep1, we learn that Ko and Ohana are "best friends," who spend a lot of time together. She definitely "notices" him, in fact she is with him constantly, as far as we can tell. When he learns she is leaving, Ko confesses to her, then runs away in embarrassment. On the train, Ohana thinks: "I have always wanted to be someone else, but now that I have seen a different side of Ko-chan...." This is clearly a suggestion that romantic feelings can develop.

Off at the inn, she doesn't call him because she doesn't know what to say. This kind of awkwardness is perfectly normal, when her osananajimi starts wanting to convert the relationship to romance. Only when he comes to see her, which the preview suggests may be soon, will we see if she feels like taking any steps in that direction. They are unlikely to be big ones, at this point, since she really gives no evidence of understanding romance at all -- all she has seen is her mother's rather irresponsible, changeable, almost comic variety of romance, which has probably turned her off the whole idea, in favor of the simple, stable friendship of a Ko.

We have not been shown her thinking of him beyond a couple of simple scenes, but that would be normal while she has to deal with a new environment, and also because the anime has strayed so far from the fairly serious narrative of the first two episodes. I am looking forward to Thursday, hoping that Ko may ignite a small flame in her heart.

A small flame is all there could be, for now. But it would be enough for me. Actually, I would also be happy enough with both of them learning that she has become a different person, and they have little in common any more. That would be human drama, too. But even if she is still not ready, I don't expect him to stop giving her the opportunity to learn.

In any case, romance here would definitely not be "from nowhere," whatever the situation in Angel Beats, which I only watched half of and thought of as a confused train wreck, to that point.

[Undertaker]

but while it won't be out of on where, it is definitely forced. I can see long distance relation like that happening in Romantic Comedy anime with Kou (not Ohana) being the main character. But with Ohana being a fairly logical and realistic person it just really hard to see Kou succeed. I would rather put my money on Ohana x Toruu than Ohana x Kou, though Ithink the most likely scenario is series end with neither succeed.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

but while it won't be out of on where, it is definitely forced. I can see long distance relation like that happening in Romantic Comedy anime with Kou (not Ohana) being the main character. But with Ohana being a fairly logical and realistic person it just really hard to see Kou succeed. I would rather put my money on Ohana x Toruu than Ohana x Kou, though I think the most likely scenario is series end with neither succeed.

Very reasonable. However, just having rewatched parts of ep1, I was struck by Ohana's fantasy about not being her mother's child, but the child of a friend. So she has a bit of the romantic fantasist -- or even, God forbid, novelist -- in her, too. I know for a fact that long-distance relationships can work in real life, but Ohana may or may not be the type. All we know is that Ko is, lol. We can agree to disagree about it being forced, anyway.

[Malkuth]

On Kou, IRL distance can work miracles on getting guys out a girls friend's zone