Ever17 -The Out of Infinity-

[Varion]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

I really liked the resolution, because...

Spoiler for don't click, spoils the ending:

I loved the cast, so I liked that things turned out well for them.

Moreover, I do think the ending makes more sense than people give it credit for.

Spoiler for Super Mega GTFO Spoilers:

How on earth does Blick Winkel make sense? I could stomach everything until that point much as it was lining up slightly too nicely, but come on, some mystical 4D being getting shoved in there was over the limit of 'making sense' =P

And I really should read Phantom of Inferno sometime. I got it with Ever17 but never got round to it in the end. Shame it's 2 hours away at the moment

[Mentar]

I've written a longish review for Phantom of Inferno here. You'll also find two trailer videos for download there.

Ever17 was an enjoyable experience and definitely worth the money I spent. But since the question was which games are the kings and classics of the genre - I'd say Phantom is the undisputed best visual novel translated to English.

[AvatarST]

I certainly can't say anything about PoI because I haven't played it, but it'll surely have some tough competition against Ever17. That said, all the Hirameki localized games I've played kept surprising me and being better than the previous, so...

[General_Norris]

So this game is sad?I don't like sad stories. Ahh, for a game I can get...

EDIT: So what's your opinion fellow gamers? Do you think that I should try it even if I'm afraid of main characters dying, a lot of people dying or not-so-happy-endings?

PD: I look so feeble writting that....

[Supergrunch]

You might not like Takeshi's paths in that case.

I've finally unlocked Coco's path now... I hope it's as good as everyone says...

[luckyovermind]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Ever17 is a fairly good visual novel, but has a slightly too convoluted resolution for my taste to quite make the top group.

But if you liked the format and are looking for other very good games of this genre: The (IMHO) undisputed king of the hill storywise is "Phantom of Inferno". I can't recommend it enough, and unlike Ever17, it has many _logical_ true endings which differ pretty much.

It's that scenario-writer's style. Look at his other games like Never7, Remember11, EVE new generation, it's all like that. Heck, as long as the theory he used is not proven wrong, it is POSSIBLE. Reading his work will enable you to have an open mind on science and logic

And you want unconvoluted resolution? Eve ~burst error~ made back in 1995 (PC98 years I think...) was a very good one.

For Phantom of Inferno, it's one of the top games in the year 2000, along with AIR, TSUKIHIME and GINIRO etc. Ever17 is one of the top games in 2003, along with CROSS CHANNEL, BALDR FORCE EXE etc. Hence they are all proven successful and personal favourites were pretty much depended on TASTE.

And on the bright side of news, this scenario-writer (I don't know japanese so I can't spell his name out) is back with KID again to make the fourth game in the Infinity series: "12riven" - it is called. Hmm, wondering when will it be translated... (For those who are wondering, Ever17 is the second game in the infinity series, and arguable the best one out of the existing 3)

[Shouta]

Originally Posted by Valdra

Spoiler for Super Mega GTFO Spoilers:

How on earth does Blick Winkel make sense? I could stomach everything until that point much as it was lining up slightly too nicely, but come on, some mystical 4D being getting shoved in there was over the limit of 'making sense' =P

And I really should read Phantom of Inferno sometime. I got it with Ever17 but never got round to it in the end. Shame it's 2 hours away at the moment

It actually makes quite a bit of sense if you think about it.

Spoiler for DO NOT LOOK IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED:

Blick Winkel is a being that's achieved 4D perception (The "Third Eye") and it manifests itself in the ability that allows his conciousness to travel through time. Blick Winkel is actually the character you're playing. He sees through Takeshi's eyes for that scenario and he physically takes over Hokuto or (The Kid).

The entire storyline is a Predestination Paradox (or casuality loop). To get the wheels of the story moving, Blick Winkel travels through time and sets in motion the events that will cause to travel back in time. It's a bit of a stretch but it plays out well enough for the most part.

This definitely one of the best visual novels I've seen and I really liked it (I usually abhor them). The writing is sharp (both original dialogue and translated although there are tons of errors) and the characters are great for the most part. The writer took care to leave clues all over place for the player but they're all kind of embedded and you have to place close attention to the dialogue to catch it.

My only other beef with the game is that...

Spoiler:

There isn't a true resolution for each of the characters. You only get one for Aki (You'aki') really. I don't recall Sara's Epilogue really doing anything but someone could refresh me on what happens with it.

At any rate, I really wanted more resolution to Tsugumi and Sora after the whole Coco storyline. The ending is nice but I really wanted to see a "what happens next" sort of thing for those two and Takeshi.

[Supergrunch]

Originally Posted by Shouta

Spoiler:

There isn't a true resolution for each of the characters. You only get one for Aki (You'aki') really. I don't recall Sara's Epilogue really doing anything but someone could refresh me on what happens with it.

At any rate, I really wanted more resolution to Tsugumi and Sora after the whole Coco storyline. The ending is nice but I really wanted to see a "what happens next" sort of thing for those two and Takeshi.

Spoiler:

For Sara's good ending Sara ran away from the research people with Hokuto. As for Tsugumi and Sora, I'd imagine that Takeshi stays with Tsugumi, given that they have children. The character with the worst deal is Kaburaki... he is infatuated with Coco, who only cares about BW... Well, at least he saved her life.

[AvatarST]

Spoiler for Final end spoilers:

I thought it was more or less clearly implied in the ending that Takeshi stayed with Tsugumi, from her own words.

[Shouta]

Originally Posted by Supergrunch

Spoiler:

For Sara's good ending Sara ran away from the research people with Hokuto. As for Tsugumi and Sora, I'd imagine that Takeshi stays with Tsugumi, given that they have children. The character with the worst deal is Kaburaki... he is infatuated with Coco, who only cares about BW... Well, at least he saved her life.

Oh, so I did see Sara's Epilogue. I thought it was something else because when I get her ending it just transitioned straight into it.

Spoiler for AboutTsugumi and Sora:

I meant that I wanted to see an ending tailored for each character rather than the universal one. It's implied Takeshi is with Tsugumi but I would've liked a concrete and separate one for both. Seems kind of inane that Aki and Sara have one to themselves but not Tsugumi and Sora.

[AvatarST]

Mmm...

Spoiler for Ending:

But they do. In Coco's route, Tsugumi's ending is the "true" Takeshi ending, while You's is Hokuto's. Sara's and Sora's endings seem to be alternate realities.

It's just that Tsugumi and Sora's endings are in 2017 while You and Sara's are in 2034. If you put it that way, then only Youbiseiakikana has a true, complete, "what happened after" ending.

[kgptzac]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

That's the Tsugumi good ending.

If you wanna find out more, you have to keep playing. The story is a lot...bigger than it seems at first.

omg... that's the good ending? @_@ sigh~ dunno how good that is to end up dying under the crushing sea water.

I finished You's good ending first and was trying hard to get something different off Tsugumi... Tsugumi's ending is very touching... i haven't seen a game like ever 17 for a while...

but i sware somebody could have put a hint say that... that ending is a good ending ._.

PS: just read thru all the spoiler... in the name of the FSM i think this game is reallllllllllly worth it... omg /goes in addict mode

[G005]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

Mmm...

Spoiler for Ending:

But they do. In Coco's route, Tsugumi's ending is the "true" Takeshi ending, while You's is Hokuto's. Sara's and Sora's endings seem to be alternate realities.

It's just that Tsugumi and Sora's endings are in 2017 while You and Sara's are in 2034. If you put it that way, then only Youbiseiakikana has a true, complete, "what happened after" ending.

Spoiler for ending:

I think all the paths are alternate endings, actually. Coco's route follows Takeshi's path quite closely. However, there're distinct differences, such as Kaburaki's discovery of his identity and Takeshi's closer relationship with Sora (they share the story of Pygmalion somewhere along the way and manage to back up her data). In that sense, it's kind of an amalgamation of the two stories. Similarly, the You and Sara paths are quite different from the version told in Coco's scenario (no romance between Hokuto and You, etc.).

As far as how the universe is established, there isn't a true ending/reality, although series canon might specify the Coco path. Each is as legit as another, with the most happy ending being merely one of several existing realities. Each story presented in the game has to happen for Blick Winkel to gain awareness of his existence and goal. Ironically, You'haru's efforts are quite detrimental in many ways (they fail in several realities, even leading to You'aki's death in one presented case, as well as the deaths of Tsugumi's children in another).

Originally Posted by kgptzac

omg... that's the good ending? @_@ sigh~ dunno how good that is to end up dying under the crushing sea water.

I finished You's good ending first and was trying hard to get something different off Tsugumi... Tsugumi's ending is very touching... i haven't seen a game like ever 17 for a while...

but i sware somebody could have put a hint say that... that ending is a good ending ._.

Spoiler:

That ending is of the 'tragic happy' variety, I guess. A lot of players seem to prefer 'happy happy' endings, but some people enjoy the former too (look at South Korean TV and literature, for instance).

At any rate, my opinion is that if the protagonist accepts death and dies feeling fulfilled, it's a good ending. Conversely, if he/she struggles to fight death to the bitter end, it's a bad ending.

Finally managed to finish the game aswell, final revelations in Coco's ending were beyond ridiculous but I guess it all fit with what happened before. Ok game overall, but kinda lacked emotional impact, didn't care about any of the characters that much either.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I felt too. Sara's story was horrendously done, as was the second half of Coco's path. On the whole, I think the writing wavers chaotically between excellent and atrocious, depending on the scenario and scene.

Overall, I did enjoy several You (directly written by Takumi Nakazawa, I think) and Sora specific scenes, which I found to be much better scripted than the rest. Emotional impact was minimal, but I don't think you need a lot of that to present a decent story.

[luckyovermind]

Originally Posted by G005

Spoiler for ending:

That ending is of the 'tragic happy' variety, I guess. A lot of players seem to prefer 'happy happy' endings, but some people enjoy the former too (look at South Korean TV and literature, for instance).

At any rate, my opinion is that if the protagonist accepts death and dies feeling fulfilled, it's a good ending. Conversely, if he/she struggles to fight death to the bitter end, it's a bad ending.

Spoiler tags please

Spoiler for ending:

Actually the thing goes like this: if the girl escapes, it's a good ending! If the girl dies, it's a bad ending! Simple!

[kgptzac]

btw is there an ending where everybody dies?

[martino]

LOL

My guess is no, but I haven't even finished the game yet (stupid school!)...

[Supergrunch]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

btw is there an ending where everybody dies?

Spoiler:

Yes, the Tsugumi/Sora bad ending.

[kgptzac]

Originally Posted by Supergrunch

Spoiler:

Yes, the Tsugumi/Sora bad ending.

can you tell me what would happen in their bad ending please?

edit: also... a question...

Spoiler:

OK i just finished Sora's good ending, and coco's path is unlocked... seems everybody is talking about the 4d being Blick Winkel or w/e and everything would be answered in Coco's path? I noticed when in Tsugumi's path, in the end when Takeshi rescued Tsugumi from the sick room in LeMU, on the compression chamber of HIMMEL, as sora close the door, one time she says nothing and water pours in her image disappear; another time she said she is going to be alright and disappear without water pouring in... i just kinda wonder what's up with those...?

[Supergrunch]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

can you tell me what would happen in their bad ending please?

edit: also... a question...

Spoiler:

OK i just finished Sora's good ending, and coco's path is unlocked... seems everybody is talking about the 4d being Blick Winkel or w/e and everything would be answered in Coco's path? I noticed when in Tsugumi's path, in the end when Takeshi rescued Tsugumi from the sick room in LeMU, on the compression chamber of HIMMEL, as sora close the door, one time she says nothing and water pours in her image disappear; another time she said she is going to be alright and disappear without water pouring in... i just kinda wonder what's up with those...?

Spoiler:

Everyone gets TB and dies- Takeshi and You are the last to die, and You confesses her love to Takeshi (while covered in blood) then dies. Takeshi himself then dies.

All the other stuff you don't understand will be in Coco's path; the differences you describe are merely differences between the different paths.

[kgptzac]

:O very interesting... so to get the bad ending I'll just have to try to hit on both girls? and also..

Spoiler:

how can tsugumi die from TB? She has the Cure thing and she still dies? :S

and will there be some album pictures only can be unlocked by the bad endings?