Angel Beats! - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Haak]

Listen. I keep asking you what is there that suggests your viewpoint rather than mine but all you keep giving is just your interpretations.

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Pay more attention. Yui was surprised. Sekine and Irie were surprised. Fujimaki was surprised. All the other guys were surprised. Also, the point here is that Iwasawa's disappearance was of less importance to her than learning about Angel's programs. She just casually explained to the others how Iwasawa accepted it herself (also note how she commented on the ballad at the start of the ep).

Oh give me a break. You'd be surprised to see someone disappearing into thin air aswell. They also showed Hisako's expression you know.
All the other guys weren't very emotional. Only three of them were actually talking: Noda, Ooyama and Hinata. Ooyama expressed fear because he always does. Noda expressed anger because he always does. Hinata was being contrary because he's always the more reasonable one. None of the other said a damn thing. And Yuri didn't mention it slightly. Watch her closely when she says Iwasawa disappeared by herself. That doesn't look like indifference to me. And don't you think that maybe Yuri mentioned it second was because they wouldn't end the episode as strongly if she said it first?

She did. And wrong. She played the guitar because she wanted to. The instance of being caught in the moment there is when she overpowered the teachers (the actual event that triggered disappearance was My Song). Then, she took the guitar, and instead of running away, she chose to play a song. And not just any other song, but the one Yuri specifically told her not to play. All these are done without any hesitation whatsoever, and Hisako even reacted accordingly, almost as if it was planned from the start. Watch the episode again. Pay attention to this particular scene. Compare that to the baseball incident. Are you telling me that there is no difference?

So she was 'caught in the moment' before she played the song? Okay. Not only is that contradictory but you haven't told me why you think it happened then rather than what I suggest.

He was. The moment (disappearance trigger event) here is when the ball flew to his direction. Not the talk with Otonashi. Not the time-out meeting. Not the pitch. Not the hit.

I know what the God damn moment was. My point was that he recognised the moment beforehand, could've avoided it happening, but didn't.

She did. I gave you reasons why she did. Are you saying these did not happen? Are you telling me that she didn't know she was playing a song for 1.5 mins? Are you telling me that she was feeling hesitant to play that song? Are you telling me that she was forced to play? Are you telling me that she didn't have any other choice but to play My Song?

No.. I am telling you that all that happened when she was 'caught in the moment' and, by your logic, was therefore not using her own senses and was being controlled by that stimulator you suggested or whatever.

Yuri's wish: Defeat Kanade's team; win baseball tournament if possible. If he doesn't catch the ball, their team would lose the match.

Which as I keep teling you, shouldn't be a factor.

To reassure him that he wouldn't disappear. I don't see what's so hard to get about this.

And it just so happens that that one line is of utmost importance. I believe you're not paying enough attention here if you think that that line is just filler.

Again. I keep asking you what is there that suggests your viewpoint rather than mine but all you keep giving is just your interpretations (which you've stated already)

And also, are you telling me that he didn't pick himself up in chapter 3? See:

Spoiler for Chapter 3 excerpt:

Are you telling me that all you got from this is "I want to disappear"? If so, then we might as well stop arguing -- we will never see eye to eye.

No, all i'm seeing there is Ooyama giving Hinata the courage to face Yuri again. That's not the same as picking yourself up. Perhaps picking himself up against Yuri but he nor Ooyama talked about disappearing as if it was a bad thing. Just something they weren't able to do right now, so i fail to see what relevance it has.

Tsundere. Do you not know of this? I'm not a fan of Yui x Hinata, but there is absolutely more than 12 seconds of Yui and Hinata interaction in the episodes that featured them. And again, let me remind you that this is a mixed-media project. You are supposed to look into all media (LN, Manga, Anime) to truly understand the characters.

I never said i didn't.One episode. In all the others it was about twelve seconds.. If it is an important factor that will lead to an important event within the anime then it is supposed to be mentioned in the anime aswell, regardless of whether or not it's a mixed media project. Otherwise you might aswell screw any attempt at giving exposition as long as it's already stated in the Light Novel. (which is not what they do, otherwise, everyone on here would be a lot more confused).

Did I suggest otherwise? Read my post again.

Yes you did suggest otherwise. You outright stated that Yuri would be lonely again if Hinata disappeared. But the evidence you've given to support that claim suggests close friendship rather than "He's my only true companion"

There was, but Yuri calmed it. However, as important as she might look to the viewer, she's not as important to the integrity of the SSS as a whole. These are the only important figures:

There blatantly wasn't but whatever. There is nothing to suggest the group will be in turmoil if Hinata left. You say it would be because Hinata is the co-founder but they hardly act like he is.

Read the chapter again. I'll give you a hint: it's there in the above excerpts.

Try harder.

Read it again. And again. And again. If you still can't see it after reading the chapter 10 times, then I can't help you.

I already told you it was a subjective interpretation. I already told you that what I'm asking for is not why you believe in this subjective interpretation but why you think it's more credible than mine. Simply telling me to read it again isn't going to do anything. If it was self evident then we wouldn't be having this argument in the first place, let alone for this long.

Just something I noticed while rewatching Ep02. Not particularly related, but should make you think of how relationships evolve over, perhaps, a decade.

Usually. It's best to base arguments on what you can see in front of you rather than what you think should be there because of preconceptions. Simply saying that is what would usually happen does not mean that it what actually happens. Especially when there's nothing afterwards to suggest it did.

[Crontica]

Keep going guys, one of you is going to commit suicide from this Tower of Text eventually.

[risingstar3110]

I think you guys should summaries the other argument then answer rather than reply sentence to sentence like that.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

I think you guys should summaries the other argument then answer rather than reply sentence to sentence like that.

I tried that once when I had a srsbsns argument with someone else. It didn't work. It just rapidly degraded back in the dreaded Tower of text again. Ice Block's color coding is a good idea, even though it only seems to be having marginal effects.

Btw I have actually been in worse than this, but it is funny what a simple tv show can do to some people. I can't help but remember what Clive Owen said in the Bourne Identity: "Look at us...Look at what they made you give..."

[Marcus H.]

By the way, why did Yuri accept the invitation to the baseball game? It doesn't seem to connect to Yuri's usual plans of taking down Tenshi. Is it a fit of randomness in Yuri's part (like the time she had it with the SSS's name and wanted to change it) or Yuri does know of Hinata's past and - in a sense - wants him to move on?

If Yuri wants Hinata to move on, maybe she's seeing Otonashi in Hinata back when Otonashi hasn't arrived in the afterlife: a thorn in the side.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

By the way, why did Yuri accept the invitation to the baseball game?.

She didn't. She told to SSS members to just join in and start playing against the others without signing up an hence break the rules. That's why Kanade later came up and took issue with it and decided to....er...challenge them in a game of baseball...

[Marcus H.]

Oh, I see. Seems I forgot that detail. @_@

[Ice Block]

Calm down. First of all, how do you define "being caught in the moment"? For my definition, it's basically some form of engrossment caused by some form of emotion or pressure invoked by external stimuli. It implies that the activity/stimulus "caught" you, and results in actions that were either not planned or were being previously actively avoided. For example:

• I didn't intend to drink in the party, but I got caught in the moment and drank anyway.
• My tank is empty because I got so caught up in the race that I forgot to refuel my tank.

Originally Posted by Haak

Listen. I keep asking you what is there that suggests your viewpoint rather than mine but all you keep giving is just your interpretations.

All the evidence that you ignored. See the following:

Which as I keep telling you, shouldn't be a factor.

Why not? Wasn't that the reason why they were playing baseball in the first place -- to train while messing up the tournament and beat Kanade's team when she interferes?

Why should we ignore the implication of not wanting to disappear when Hinata nervously denies his disappearance?

all i'm seeing there is Ooyama giving Hinata the courage to face Yuri again. That's not the same as picking yourself up. Perhaps picking himself up against Yuri but he nor Ooyama talked about disappearing as if it was a bad thing. Just something they weren't able to do right now, so i fail to see what relevance it has.

Try harder.

If I complete this task, then I can leave this world, and be reincarnated. That's what Yurippe said.
Is that really true?
If that's the case, shouldn't I pour myself body and soul into this task?
But I wasn't too clear on the method.
At this moment, I suddenly thought of something.
Isn't there an angel? If she is an emissary of God, then her duty must be to safeguard the purpose of this world, right? If I just go ask that person it'll be fine.

Originally Posted by Haak

Oh give me a break. You'd be surprised to see someone disappearing into thin air aswell. They also showed Hisako's expression you know.

Yes, even she was surprised. And, hoho, if I knew what to expect, I wouldn't be surprised. See Kanade's reaction.

Originally Posted by Haak

All the other guys weren't very emotional. Only three of them were actually talking: Noda, Ooyama and Hinata. Ooyama expressed fear because he always does. Noda expressed anger because he always does. Hinata was being contrary because he's always the more reasonable one. None of the other said a damn thing. And Yuri didn't mention it slightly. Watch her closely when she says Iwasawa disappeared by herself. That doesn't look like indifference to me. And don't you think that maybe Yuri mentioned it second was because they wouldn't end the episode as strongly if she said it first?

And Takamatsu (I mixed up his and Fujimaki's names). Also, "casually remarking" =/= indifference. She didn't rage over it, she didn't sob over it, but she was also not indifferent. However, she didn't see it as of utmost importance. Also, why should cinematic timing or w/e affect the characters' in-universe emotions/priorities? It should be the other way around.

Originally Posted by Haak

So she was 'caught in the moment' before she played the song? Okay. Not only is that contradictory but you haven't told me why you think it happened then rather than what I suggest.

No.. I am telling you that all that happened when she was 'caught in the moment' and, by your logic, was therefore not using her own senses and was being controlled by that stimulator you suggested or whatever.

Students are complaining about the teacher's intervention (urging the band to play again), and the teachers are messing with their instruments while pinning her down. When the teacher suggested that her acoustic guitar will be thrown away, she snapped, overpowered her captors, and took the guitar. This is an example of being caught in the moment because the situation basically forced her action. She didn't try very hard to overpower her captors before, only now. Was she forced to sing after she got her guitar? Nope. Was she herself against playing My Song in the first place? Nope. Judging by Hisako's reaction (moving up to the AV control room instead of helping Iwasawa escape), they planned that last act.

Now, are you saying that she got too caught up in her song that she forgot she was gonna disappear? Perhaps, but I don't think so. Why? Because she didn't show any hesitation whatsoever. She didn't even think of disappearing. To be caught in the moment, you need to actively know what you're trying to avoid/prevent before you get engrossed in the activity. Was Iwasawa actively trying to not disappear? Nope. Was she even against disappearance? Hard to tell.

Originally Posted by Haak

I know what the God damn moment was. My point was that he recognised the moment beforehand, could've avoided it happening, but didn't.

Recognizing what's about to come does not prevent you from being "caught in the moment", even if you seek to actively avoid it. See first example above.

Originally Posted by Haak

I never said i didn't. One episode. In all the others it was about twelve seconds. If it is an important factor that will lead to an important event within the anime then it is supposed to be mentioned in the anime aswell, regardless of whether or not it's a mixed media project. Otherwise you might aswell screw any attempt at giving exposition as long as it's already stated in the Light Novel. (which is not what they do, otherwise, everyone on here would be a lot more confused).

Ignoring Ep04 and Ep10:
Ep05: none
Ep06: [2:25 to 2:36] = 11 seconds
Ep07: [1:36 to 2:03] + [20:23 to 20:30] = 27 + 7 = 34 seconds
Ep08: [9:40 to 10:01] + [18:15 to 18:25] = 21 + 10 = 31 seconds
Ep09: none

And again, this is all background information. Has it been used for the plot in the anime? No. Has it been referenced? Yes. Note the difference. The same is also true regarding Chaa, Noda, Shiina and Ooyama. Also, they had a pretty valid reason to reintroduce the characters and the basic concepts of the world: Otonashi. Oh, and those who don't know anything about the novel are pretty confused -- just see all the people who are still claiming Yuri to be the evil, scheming final boss.

Originally Posted by Haak

Yes you did suggest otherwise. You outright stated that Yuri would be lonely again if Hinata disappeared. But the evidence you've given to support that claim suggests close friendship rather than "He's my only true companion"

There blatantly wasn't but whatever. There is nothing to suggest the group will be in turmoil if Hinata left. You say it would be because Hinata is the co-founder but they hardly act like he is.

That still doesn't imply anything more than friendship, but wouldn't you be lonely if a close friend disappeared? And not only that, Hinata's sudden disappearance would possibly destabilize the SSS. It's a fatal blow to morale when one of the founders suddenly disappears without saying a word. That's just how society works (ie most guilds get some drama when one of the founders leave publicly and without a word). Are you saying we shouldn't use human society as a reference for these characters' actions?

Originally Posted by Haak

I already told you it was a subjective interpretation. I already told you that what I'm asking for is not why you believe in this subjective interpretation but why you think it's more credible than mine. Simply telling me to read it again isn't going to do anything. If it was self evident then we wouldn't be having this argument in the first place, let alone for this long.

Well, then read it again . Hinata knew how to find a way to disappear. He didn't pursue it, and he never brought it up again. What does this suggest?

Originally Posted by Haak

Usually. It's best to base arguments on what you can see in front of you rather than what you think should be there because of preconceptions. Simply saying that is what would usually happen does not mean that it what actually happens. Especially when there's nothing afterwards to suggest it did.

Suggest what? Are you trying to tell me that relationships do not evolve, especially in a growing organization, over the course of a decade? Don't be delusional. And the evolution of the relationships within the group is pretty evident in the anime: Chaa, now the head of Guild, doesn't mingle with the oldies, Hinata and Yuri aren't seen playing around (based on chapter 6 pics), Yuri has become much more wary of Kanade, Shiina is now a friend, Ooyama is no longer scared of Yuri, etc (not much info on Noda, only have 1 pic of him from Track Zero, and he looks mighty angry there).

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Lol

Just so you know. I've decided to switch the location to the Speculation & Theories thread.

[Crontica]

Woot the Terra Tower fight is moving base to the Speculation thread people! Get ya popcorn!

[maplehurry]

I was gonna say, noone will think you "lose" the debate if you bail out now, but whatever if they enjoy it

[Knightrunner]

No way, if somebody bails out then it is "game over." I want to see the tower reach a page long at least.

I think I'm having temporary amensia myself but is episode nine about Yuzuru's extra past and how he decides to help Kanade?