One Piece - Chapter 585 (manga)

[marvelB]

^Yeah, I'd also guess that this flashback will wrap up in another 3-4 chapters. After all, we've yet to see what mayhem our world noble friend will bring upon her/her arrival.....



Going back to Sabo's survival rate, I'd say it's about half-and-half by this point. After all, as some folks like james already pointed out, the memory of his death will help Luffy find a way to cope with Ace's death in the present time (which is something I certainly don't disagree with). On the other hand, Sabo's development in this flashback could mean he may end up becoming a major character in the present timeline.(not necessarily as Luffy's next crewmember per se, but a major character nonetheless). This is further backed up by the fact that he has an established dream (to write a book about his world travels). Of course, we'll need to wait and see how things play out, but I still wouldn't say that Sabo's death is 100% guaranteed. Also, I think it's best to assume that the outcome of the world noble's arrival will also explain why we never heard about Sabo prior to Ace's death.....

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Going back to Sabo's survival rate, I'd say it's about half-and-half by this point. After all, as some folks like james already pointed out, the memory of his death will help Luffy find a way to cope with Ace's death in the present time (which is something I certainly don't disagree with)

How can the memory of his death provide comfort to him? It'll just remind him that both of his brothers are now dead leaving him alone. It just sounds a bit too depressing.


Also why did Oda block out that panel where Luffy yells something? It was obvious what he yelled, But still, Very interesting indeed.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by holypanl

Doflamingo killing off another Shichibukai with orders from 'way high up', is just too much intrigue.

There is no definitive proof that Moria is dead. The outcome of that particular altercation was left ambiguous (Oda didn't show the entirety of what happened there).

[Rainbowman]

There are some theories I have that I hope would come true when the flashback in this story arc is over:

1. Boa Hancock's Devil Fruit powers are not effective on other Devil Fruit users (i.e.: Luffy and Trafalger Law) and Fishmen (i.e.: Jinbei).

2. Jinbei has conflicted Boa Hancock with his wisdom many times before the current events.

3. Trafalgar Law would look into Boa Hancock's "Love Sickness" (seeing as he's a doctor) and tell her that she's under the influence of the Devil Fruit she has (Mero is the japanese translation meaning Love). There's no other explanation why she feels the way she does.

[Noe]

Luffy lost a lot of times when he was younger.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

How can the memory of his death provide comfort to him? It'll just remind him that both of his brothers are now dead leaving him alone. It just sounds a bit too depressing.

I think the point is that if Luffy and Ace were able to cope with the death of a precious brother and go on with their lives back then, the same could apply to the loss of a second brother in the present time. True, it may be depressing, but Luffy can't mope around forever. Besides, he'll still have his crew there to support him once they've reunited with him, so you can't really say that he's lonely now.

[paradox13]

2. Jinbei has conflicted Boa Hancock with his wisdom many times before the current events.

What does this mean?

3. Trafalgar Law would look into Boa Hancock's "Love Sickness" (seeing as he's a doctor) and tell her that she's under the influence of the Devil Fruit she has (Mero is the japanese translation meaning Love). There's no other explanation why she feels the way she does.

Uhh..maybe shes actually IN LOVE with the guy?

Are you serious?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Rainbowman

1. Boa Hancock's Devil Fruit powers are not effective on other Devil Fruit users (i.e.: Luffy and Trafalger Law) and Fishmen (i.e.: Jinbei).

Boa's powers affect anyone that has uncontrollable lust for her. Species, size, shape, colour, creed, etc, nothing else seems to matter besides the feeling of lust and the inability to control said lust.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Rainbowman

There are some theories I have that I hope would come true when the flashback in this story arc is over:

1. Boa Hancock's Devil Fruit powers are not effective on other Devil Fruit users (i.e.: Luffy and Trafalger Law) and Fishmen (i.e.: Jinbei).

2. Jinbei has conflicted Boa Hancock with his wisdom many times before the current events.

3. Trafalgar Law would look into Boa Hancock's "Love Sickness" (seeing as he's a doctor) and tell her that she's under the influence of the Devil Fruit she has (Mero is the japanese translation meaning Love). There's no other explanation why she feels the way she does.

1. Doubt it. That would be about the most gimped power ever, even if thus far it is internally consistent. She never tried with Law, and people have shown the ability to remain composed even if they are attracted to her.

2. They haven't even spoken as far as I know, that'd be rather weird.

3. Not internally consistent. It's endemic of Amazon Lily as a whole, not Hancock herself, as indicated by Nyon.

[ashesatdusk]

Actually, the drinking scene probably refers to a famous scene from Romance of the Three Kingdoms, where Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei proclaimed themselves to be brothers despite not sharing any blood bonds - 'though not born in the same day of the same month in the same year, we hope to die so'. Are you telling me that in the ritual Ace excludes Sabo from their fraternity simply because he wasn't adopted by Garp as well? Does that sound like Ace at all?

It very may well. I'm not familiar with chinese folklore. I think your missing my point. I don't think the brother hood thing is that elaborate. Simply that Ace was acknowledging luffy for the first time. If it is as elaborate as your claiming it is, then my line of thought makes less sense.

Edit. Actually reading the chapter now. I retract my earlier statement. I do think it is more elaborate, than I initially thought. I was not aware that the sake cups were in this chapter. It also seems clear from this chapter, that sabo is included in the fraternity. The earlier comments were discussing that he was not, since he was never mentioned, so my line of reasoning was given that information.

Chinese language does not derive from Sanskrit or prakrit. In fact, I am from East Asia and I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

I never said they were. Look at what you qouted. the part I mentioned China was in regards to bonds in non nuclear families. I explicitly said South East Asian languages, and mentioned nothing about china in that statement. South East languages are derived from Sanskrit/Prakrit (Thai for example), as well as the original scripts for Bhuddism. Which is why Tibet uses Sanskrit derived scripts, and not Chinese characters.




Chinese, Japanesee, Korean are not in the same language families at all, nor is Sanskrit.


My comment is simply remarking that Ace and luffy's relationship can have something more to do with the fact about how kinship bonds are formed in most rural villages. Simply if you grow up with someone and they are in your clan, they are more or less sibling. The concept of a nonnuclear family isn't that odd, and it exists in many cultures, throughout the world.

Chinese and Indian culture is as different as American and Russian culture, whilst Japanese culture is definitely influenced by Chinese.

. Having lived among Chinese, Japanese, Indian for four years, I'm more than able appreciate that fact. Having family in latter two countries (visiting both several times), I think I'm more then capable of understanding what those differences are. I would never say that Chinese, and Indian culture are as different as American and Russia. America and Germany, sure. I don't think the cultural gaps between any cultures with the same socio economic classes are that different; Sure their, histories differ, political climates and languages differ. These are of course going to make large differences in culture. But your talking about cultures whose ordinary life the last 4000-5000 years centered around growing rice. Your also talking about cultures which share religions, or central ideas from religions.

Thanks. His ignorance was appalling.

You should look in the mirror.

[holypanl]

@Blackbeard D. Kuma: True, but it's difficult to imagine Doflamingo really not tying his loose ends, so to speak. He's shown a penchant for discarding all compunction (if he ever had any to begin with), and the scene where he executed Bellamy was slightly scary.

Apart from that, what say we start taking bets on how high Luffy's new bounty would be? Or is there another thread dedicated to that that I missed?

[morbosfist]

There's a bounty thread that should still be on the first page.

[holypanl]

Right-o. Apologies, then. A mod can remove this post an the one preceding it if deemed necessary.

[grey_1960]

Chapter 585
That was a good chapter. That was a pretty long chapter. I like that. That was pretty neat seeing Garp beat the crap out of the three.

Sabo
I hope he survives in this arch. He sounds like he would be powerful character.

Quotes

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

There is no definitive proof that Moria is dead. The outcome of that particular altercation was left ambiguous (Oda didn't show the entirety of what happened there).

The only way I see him surviving is if Moria secretly promises to serve under Doflamingo. But after seeing Bellamy get executed for his failures I don't see Doflamingo taking Moria under him.

Originally Posted by Jabberwock

Hi first post. Anyway I was reading the latest chapter of One Piece with Sabo. Now I had a crazy thought about where Sabo is now. Does anyone else think Sabo could be Doflamingo? First reason is just the aesthetic, ie, blonde hair plus sunglasses, obviously changed but both elements are there for both characters. Second reason is that Doflamingo has a connection to tenryuubito (who presumably are connected to Sabo through his father) in as much as he is part of the slave trade. Third reason is that he had a dream back in the day of being a writer/pirate, but he gave that dream up to do exactly as his father asked which could be an excellent reason for his anti dreams ideology. Finally is that Sabo seems to be at near/same strength as Ace back when they were kids so it stands to reason that he could be an incredibly powerful pirate now. Either in the GrandLine or as Dofla. Or he might just have become a noble and this theory is not worth the time it took to write!

Any thoughts?

That would a be a cool twist. I hope in the future one of the famous pirate or one of the Shickibukai are Tenryubite. That would be cool seeing them get down and dirty with everyone else. Since they are pretty rich, upper class, and powerful I would expect they would have access or the resource to find some pretty interesting devil fruits. I think a pirate Tenryubite would be interesting.

[Prestige]

Don Flamingo was already an adult when Gol D Roger was executed.

[grey_1960]

Response
I know that already. paradox13 on the third page on Link #49 in this forum told us already. I was commenting on Tenrybito being a pirate idea, that was inspired from the post Jabberwock put up. How would the Marines deal with this pirate if he or she was a Tenrybito? Would the WG put up with it like they do with the Shickibukai? I guess I should have been more specific. My fault.

[paradox13]

Would the WG put up with it like they do with the Shickibukai?

I think so, considering how the Tenryubitto do way worse shit, like trading humans and such, and they are still tolerated.

South East languages are derived from Sanskrit/Prakrit (Thai for example), as well as the original scripts for Bhuddism. Which is why Tibet uses Sanskrit derived scripts, and not Chinese characters.




Chinese, Japanesee, Korean are not in the same language families at all, nor is Sanskrit.

Language wise they are not, but Japanese and Korean culture has been greatly influenced by Chinese cuture, due to the overwhelming power and influence of the Chinese empire historically. Chinese Confucian ideals of filial piety etc etc have been exported over to Korea and Japan, and we can see many references even in modern works of ancient Chinese works of art, like Journey to the West in DBZ and Three Kingdoms in Dynasty Warriors.

In any case, I am not familiar with Indian culture, however I believe that traditionally Japan and Korea have been influenced by China and not India, so my ignorance with regards to Indian culture is irrelevant in this discussion.

But your talking about cultures whose ordinary life the last 4000-5000 years centered around growing rice. Your also talking about cultures which share religions, or central ideas from religions.

Your first sentence is an incredibly simplistic view.

And your second is inaccurate; the only religion we 'share' is Buddhism. The major religions in India is Hinduism and Sikhism, whilst in China, we have Taoism and Confucianism as well as various indigenous folk religions. In Japan, they have Shinto, and I am not too familiar with that either.

[ashesatdusk]

.

In any case, I am not familiar with Indian culture, however I believe that traditionally Japan and Korea have been influenced by China and not India, so my ignorance with regards to Indian culture is irrelevant in this discussion.

The statements are not mutually exclusive. Countries have various degrees of cultural influence. I would argue that American culture has greater influence over modern east Asian culture than China has. I know young people in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, listen to hip hop, wear blue jeans, have copied western management techniques, corporate sector, and our university system. Does that change the fact that China has had cultural influence or the degree of influence it has? No. I don't think I at any point denied that Chinese culture had a greater influence over Japanese +Koran culture. However, the acknowledgement and your argument is relatively irrelevant. It seems me is that you define culture much more narrowly than I do.
Again my argument was regarding kinship bonds in non-nuclear families. I simply stated that kinship bonds in Villages are formed, and those ideas persist within major a major Asian language (one which has a far greater influence and spread over the whole region than Chinese does.) There is a deep significance when ideas are embodied directly in a language, it means that they are everyday realities. I simply made conjecture that type of kinship relation may have existed as far as Japan. I do know for a fact that kin relations in China and Korea in the past were as I discussed. Its not like this stuff this stuff is not actually discussed in anthropology or sociology books.

And your second is inaccurate; the only religion we 'share' is Buddhism. The major religions in India is Hinduism and Sikhism, whilst in China, we have Taoism and Confucianism as well as various indigenous folk religions. In Japan, they have Shinto, and I am not too familiar with that ei

Again, I'm aware of this. I was specifically referring to the Bhuddist connection. However, because of the ignorance of most East Asians of other cultures is that they rarely recognize how much Bhuddism directly draws from Hinduism. Its not a small connection, its gigantic.

[paradox13]

Again my argument was regarding kinship bonds in non-nuclear families. I simply stated that kinship bonds in Villages are formed, and those ideas persist within major a major Asian language (one which has a far greater influence and spread over the whole region than Chinese does.) There is a deep significance when ideas are embodied directly in a language, it means that they are everyday realities. I simply made conjecture that type of kinship relation may have existed as far as Japan. I do know for a fact that kin relations in China and Korea in the past were as I discussed. Its not like this stuff this stuff is not actually discussed in anthropology or sociology books.

You state that such kinship relations exist in India (I do not know whether or not that is true; it may be true or it may not, but I will take your word for it). Then you extrapolate your statement towards Japan by stating that such 'ideas persist within a major Asian language (one which has a far greater influence and spread over the whole region than Chinese does.)'. I don't see where you get this from? Maybe Indian language (Hindi) and Sanskrit has influenced Tibetan and even Thai language, but how has it in any way influenced Japanese language or culture? And where the hell did you get that it has had 'far greater influence and spread over the whole region than Chinese does'? That is a wholely unfounded statement, and untrue in my opinion as well. I don't know what influence Hindi or India has had over East and Southeast Asia, but I know for a fact that it has had way less impact then China and Chinese, economically, cultural or socially. Chinese Mandarin is an official language in Singapore whilst Hindi isn't. You can speak mandarin on the streets in Malaysia and it is taught in the schools whilst Hindi isn't. Furthermore, Kanji (in Japanese) is derived directly from Chinese, and not Sanskrit, whilst historically Japan and Korea has sent envoys and ambassadors to the Chinese court throughout the past 1000 years or so, and not the Indian court. In fact, I do not believe India even had contact with Japan and Korea until the twentieth century.

[AddiKtioNn-BlaCk]

I'm not sure exactly what the discussion is about. But India and Japan has had relations since the 6th or 7th century. However China has been the most dominate and influential culture in East Asia, that can't be disputed. However, China and the rest East Asia has been influenced by India (a little), Buddhism is a Indian-originated Religion/Belief.