AnimeSuki Forums

morbosfist · 2010-06-05, 19:23

Just as being able to shoot someone accurately from any appreciable distance takes practice. A three-year old with his Haki could conceivably knock out a stadium if riled. The kid may not know what it's done, but it doesn't change the fact that the Haki is strong. It just shows that the user is inept. You're trying to claim that his Haki ceases being what it is for lack of training, which makes no sense. For a better comparison, it's like saying Luffy wasn't rubber until he learned how to control his power. He has Haoushoku Haki, as commented on several times. Lack of training is meaningless except to his ability to utilize it effectively.

AddiKtioNn-BlaCk · 2010-06-05, 22:50

I'm saying his Haki isn't Haoushoku Haki yet because it isn't strong enough to be called that yet, we can agree to disagree. The times Luffy had used it, it was unconsciously and out of desperation.

Using your comparison. That would be like calling a person in a Shooting class, whose only able to hit their target when someone's life is jeopardy, a Top Class shooter. Yeah that shooter has the potential but if he's only able to hit the target for somebody's else sake then you can't say that person is a Top Class Shooter.

morbosfist · 2010-06-05, 23:24

I guess we'll have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk

Using your comparison. That would be like calling a person in a Shooting class, whose only able to hit their target when someone's life is jeopardy, a Top Class shooter. Yeah that shooter has the potential but if he's only able to hit the target for somebody's else sake then you can't say that person is a Top Class Shooter.

Obviously, but this doesn't change my original point. Luffy's Haki is just untrained, not weaker per se. It has the same force, he just can't control it.

james0246 · 2010-06-05, 23:27

^Luffy just has Haoushoku Haki (it's the essence derived from his personality and character - Luffy would not be Luffy if he did not always possess Haoushoku Haki). He does nto posses 'regular' Haki and then levels up; or using 'regular' Haki then, when his friends are put in a life or death situation, he taps into his Haoushoku. You can say that he doesn't use his Haoushoku Haki well (beyond its ability to create allies), but you can't say "his Haki isn't Haoushoku Haki yet". It's always Haoushoku Haki.

Jaieni · 2010-06-05, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk

I'm saying his Haki isn't Haoushoku Haki yet because it isn't strong enough to be called that yet, we can agree to disagree. The times Luffy had used it, it was unconsciously and out of desperation.

Using your comparison. That would be like calling a person in a Shooting class, whose only able to hit their target when someone's life is jeopardy, a Top Class shooter. Yeah that shooter has the potential but if he's only able to hit the target for somebody's else sake then you can't say that person is a Top Class Shooter.

Haoushoku Haki is a type of Haki rather than a tier level Haki like you're trying to make it out to be. Hancock herself knew that Luffy had the King's Disposition.

Using the gun comparison. Haki is a gun while Haoushoku Haki is an assault rifle. The assault rifle is a type of gun rather than a level of gun, ie a hand gun can never become an assault rifle by the user becoming more proficient.

Sprite_Coke · 2010-06-06, 04:37

WTF? KUMA?! a revolutionary?!
Was this ever hinted before?

Slayerx · 2010-06-06, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke

WTF? KUMA?! a revolutionary?!
Was this ever hinted before?

Yes, Iva mentioned that kuma was an old friend or something along those lines when He fought Kuma during the war
and he himself did seem to allude to some connection with dragon back on thrillerbark

AddiKtioNn-BlaCk · 2010-06-06, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Obviously, but this doesn't change my original point. Luffy's Haki is just untrained, not weaker per se. It has the same force, he just can't control it.

Ok. Untrained. I can agree to that. But I still hold on to my original point for the most part. When Luffy attacked Blackbeard, Blackbeard commented that Luffy's Haki improved. Meaning Luffy's Haki is still growing - becoming stronger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaieni

Haoushoku Haki is a type of Haki rather than a tier level Haki like you're trying to make it out to be. Hancock herself knew that Luffy had the King's Disposition.

People could only tell Luffy had Haoushoku Haki during those subconscious burst. Its not like they looked at him and realized he had it.

james0246 · 2010-06-06, 10:07

^Mihawk just looked at Luffy and knew he possessed the "King's Ambition" (that's why he commented on Luffy being able to gather allies so eaisly, which is an ability of those who possess Haoushoku Haki). For those who know, all they have to do is see Luffy to understand.

That being said, I do agree that Luffy is unskilled at actively using his Haoushoku Haki, and I would tend to agree that a fully mastered Haoushoku Haki will have more to it than simply the ability to make friends or standard Haki Burst or Logia Attack features. What that extra something is, I do not know, but if the only difference between Haki and Haoushoku Haki is making allies (more eaisly), then I will be a sad panda...

AddiKtioNn-BlaCk · 2010-06-06, 11:27

^ Can you link me? I don't remember Mihawk saying about Luffy have Haoushoku Haki.

Kallen4life · 2010-06-06, 11:51

Hancock shattered Pacifista armor with absolute ease with her kicks .. I think that was HH imbued into them (remember haki imbued arrows exploded) - can't believe her raw kick strength alone is THAT much higher then G2/3 Luffy, Zoro, Sanji etc.

Jet Storm + HH = will be epic

damn I'm discussing haki again in the chapter thread =/

Blackbeard D. Kuma · 2010-06-06, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk

^ Can you link me? I don't remember Mihawk saying about Luffy have Haoushoku Haki.

Chapter 561 - Page 12.

AddiKtioNn-BlaCk · 2010-06-06, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Chapter 561 - Page 12.

Yeah, that's exactly what I remember Mihawk saying. Nothing about Haoushoku Haki directly. He just commented on his ability to make allies being a fearsome power.

morbosfist · 2010-06-06, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk

Yeah, that's exactly what I remember Mihawk saying. Nothing about Haoushoku Haki directly. He just commented on his ability to make allies being a fearsome power.

Iva later confirms it as being the cause of his Haki. Mihawk is simply foreshadowing.

AddiKtioNn-BlaCk · 2010-06-06, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Iva later confirms it as being the cause of his Haki. Mihawk is simply foreshadowing.

AFTER the unconscious burst, Iva also comments how that power still lies dormant within him. Which goes back to my original point.

--------------

During Ace, Sabo, and Luffy's fight. Wasn't it stated that Sabo and Ace were even in Wins and Loses, right?

Blackbeard D. Kuma · 2010-06-06, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk

During Ace, Sabo, and Luffy's fight. Wasn't it stated that Sabo and Ace were even in Wins and Loses, right?

Out of 50 matches against Sabo, Ace had 26 wins and 24 losses.

Rurik · 2010-06-07, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

^ Plausible reasoning, my friend. But I also took into account the fact that Ace was offered a warlord position, which had to be 2 years ago at the most. That means there was one vacant spot in the shichibukai faction during that time, so maybe Doflamingo could have taken that spot after Ace declined the offer.

Hancock seems to have less time as a Sichibukai, maybe it was Hancock that took the position that Ace declined.

Jaieni · 2010-06-07, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rurik

Hancock seems to have less time as a Sichibukai, maybe it was Hancock that took the position that Ace declined.

And the navy ships being able to just recently travel the calm belt might be why she went for the title.

james0246 · 2010-06-07, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rurik

Hancock seems to have less time as a Sichibukai, maybe it was Hancock that took the position that Ace declined.

Boa's been a Shichibukai for presumably 10+ years (she became world famous somewhere around the age of 16 (after she escaped from Tenryubito slavery - 13 years pre current story), and then became a Shichibukai sometime after that, but still probably 10 or so years); Ace was only offered the position 2-4 years (pre-current story). So, it is still unknown who Ace was going to replace or who took up the position instead of Ace (Oda's ages for all the Shichibukai make it hard to predict when they became Shichibukai).

marvelB · 2010-06-07, 15:43

If I had to guess, I'd say that Kuma was probably the guy who filled in Ace's spot. I say this because I think he was offered the position around the same time (or shortly before) Iva and the Newkamas were incarcerated. I'm really just basing this on the fact that Iva already knew that Kuma was a Shichibukai when they met at Marineford, yet he didn't know about his conversion into a Pacifista. So if Kuma was still an active pirate/rebel around the same time Ace started making a name for himself in the GL, I can definitely see him being the one who was offered the position after Ace rejected it. But again, this theory would depend on how long Iva was imprisoned.....

2010-06-05, 19:23	Link #101
morbosfist Spinning Lotus Join Date: Jul 2008	Just as being able to shoot someone accurately from any appreciable distance takes practice. A three-year old with his Haki could conceivably knock out a stadium if riled. The kid may not know what it's done, but it doesn't change the fact that the Haki is strong. It just shows that the user is inept. You're trying to claim that his Haki ceases being what it is for lack of training, which makes no sense. For a better comparison, it's like saying Luffy wasn't rubber until he learned how to control his power. He has Haoushoku Haki, as commented on several times. Lack of training is meaningless except to his ability to utilize it effectively. __________________

2010-06-06, 04:37	Link #106
Sprite_Coke Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Washington	WTF? KUMA?! a revolutionary?! Was this ever hinted before? __________________ Click for my MyAnimeList

2010-06-06, 11:51	Link #111
Kallen4life Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Hancock shattered Pacifista armor with absolute ease with her kicks .. I think that was HH imbued into them (remember haki imbued arrows exploded) - can't believe her raw kick strength alone is THAT much higher then G2/3 Luffy, Zoro, Sanji etc. Jet Storm + HH = will be epic damn I'm discussing haki again in the chapter thread =/ __________________ When we hunt, we kill No one is safe Nothing is sacred We are Blackwatch We are the last line of defense We will burn our own to hold the red line, it is the last line to ever hold

2010-06-05, 22:50	Link #102
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk Is Your Daddy & Its True Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In the Sky with the Birds	I'm saying his Haki isn't Haoushoku Haki yet because it isn't strong enough to be called that yet, we can agree to disagree. The times Luffy had used it, it was unconsciously and out of desperation. Using your comparison. That would be like calling a person in a Shooting class, whose only able to hit their target when someone's life is jeopardy, a Top Class shooter. Yeah that shooter has the potential but if he's only able to hit the target for somebody's else sake then you can't say that person is a Top Class Shooter.

2010-06-05, 23:27	Link #104
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	^Luffy just has Haoushoku Haki (it's the essence derived from his personality and character - Luffy would not be Luffy if he did not always possess Haoushoku Haki). He does nto posses 'regular' Haki and then levels up; or using 'regular' Haki then, when his friends are put in a life or death situation, he taps into his Haoushoku. You can say that he doesn't use his Haoushoku Haki well (beyond its ability to create allies), but you can't say "his Haki isn't Haoushoku Haki yet". It's always Haoushoku Haki.

2010-06-06, 10:07	Link #109
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	^Mihawk just looked at Luffy and knew he possessed the "King's Ambition" (that's why he commented on Luffy being able to gather allies so eaisly, which is an ability of those who possess Haoushoku Haki). For those who know, all they have to do is see Luffy to understand. That being said, I do agree that Luffy is unskilled at actively using his Haoushoku Haki, and I would tend to agree that a fully mastered Haoushoku Haki will have more to it than simply the ability to make friends or standard Haki Burst or Logia Attack features. What that extra something is, I do not know, but if the only difference between Haki and Haoushoku Haki is making allies (more eaisly), then I will be a sad panda...

2010-06-06, 11:27	Link #110
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk Is Your Daddy & Its True Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In the Sky with the Birds	^ Can you link me? I don't remember Mihawk saying about Luffy have Haoushoku Haki.

2010-06-07, 15:43	Link #120
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	If I had to guess, I'd say that Kuma was probably the guy who filled in Ace's spot. I say this because I think he was offered the position around the same time (or shortly before) Iva and the Newkamas were incarcerated. I'm really just basing this on the fact that Iva already knew that Kuma was a Shichibukai when they met at Marineford, yet he didn't know about his conversion into a Pacifista. So if Kuma was still an active pirate/rebel around the same time Ace started making a name for himself in the GL, I can definitely see him being the one who was offered the position after Ace rejected it. But again, this theory would depend on how long Iva was imprisoned.....