2012-02-01, 15:51 | Link #27521 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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And how do you explain the how he managed the fact he was a "john doe"? That had probably happened after he got an identity somehow.
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Also "who cares about Ange".
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2012-02-01, 15:55 | Link #27522 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
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I had forgotten about that. Interesting.
By the way, one more thing I'd like to say. If Ikuko takes him to the proper authorities so that he can get the best treatment and everything, doesn't that mean that a whole bunch of people, including people involved with law enforcement, are going to be doing everything they can to restore his memories, because after all he was at Rokkenjima at the time of the incident, and they want to hurry up and take care of the horrible criminal who killed like 16 people? And what methods do you think they're gonna use? I seriously doubt that it's going to be something as subtle as showing him something about Rokkenjima on the internet. |
2012-02-01, 15:58 | Link #27523 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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2012-02-01, 16:01 | Link #27525 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Well, at any rate, regardless of whether Ikuko=Yasuda or not, what you just said is true, so the fact that it's improbable that he wouldn't be identified is kind of irrelevant to my theories... |
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2012-02-01, 16:02 | Link #27526 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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If Battler was found soon after the incident, it'd be trivial to identify him on sight. There are more than enough people who could ID him. Give it a few decades for him to get older and who knows, but at the very least his classmates should be able to pick him out of a lineup. They could probably ID him through other things. His teeth are a big one. DNA from a blood sample, possibly. Fingerprints, if he was ever fingerprinted before (unlikely, but I don't know with Japan whether fingerprints are needed for any critical documents).
Basically, Ikuko needs to make sure nobody ever asks these questions to take any samples from him.
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2012-02-01, 16:03 | Link #27527 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Didn't Tohya say something along the lines of(Forgive me, I don't feel like fetching the exact words) : ''She said I could get brain surgery if I wanted, but I feared that I was lose ''myself''
Perhaps she didn't want to FORCE Battler into hospital treatment unless he wanted to himself, therefore bribing the doctor in the beginning, when he was still in shock, was necessary. However, after he goes into his supposed fit, he decides he has to do something about it and chooses to start going? Or something along those lines? |
2012-02-01, 16:09 | Link #27528 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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But the fact she didn't bring Battler to a hospital right away (albeit she did later) and that she bribed a doctor to keep silent to check Battler as soon as she found him, it's a pretty solid reason to think she didn't have that fake identity ready at the time. She probably had to forge it yet. Or maybe she had it, but she thought it was better to wait a while after the Rokkenjima incident wasn't on everyone's mind, encurring in the risk that someone would recognize Battler from a photo in a newspaper. But naturally since I don't think Ikuko is Yasu, my explanation for that is that she didn't have a fake ID yet. Either way, Ikuko didn't bring Battler to a hospital right away. And if he had a brain hemorrage, good bye Battler and Tohya. Quote:
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2012-02-01, 16:42 | Link #27529 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I think what Toku meant is that if Ikuko gave Touya to the authorities, all of those people looking into the incident would want a peek at his mind for information, and that could traumatize him a lot more than Ikuko could by herself.
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2012-02-01, 16:44 | Link #27530 | ||||||||
The True Culprit
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And you're seriously missing the point. Beatrice can't see the future, and she can't dictate or control how other people are going to play with the Pieces. She can't. That Red only talks about things up until that point, and the Truth of Beatrice's intended scenario. She didn't say it was somehow literally impossible for someone to write about a "Living Kinzo" in like Game7. Quote:
So no matter what Red Truth you make, future circumstances can change it. If I say I have one apple, and always have had one apple, the same is true for all days, and then someone gives me an apple tomorrow, then I have Two apples. Quote:
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How are you reasoning that out? I want the full text you're referring to as long as a scanned page included if possible.
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2012-02-01, 17:10 | Link #27531 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Pay specific attention to how Beato describes her own writing, the discussion of the "witches in the Sea of Fragments", the talk about tearing a cat's guts out, and the reason why Dlanor pities Beato.
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2012-02-01, 17:29 | Link #27532 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I almost want to absolve Yasu of guilt just because if she was completely clean, it'd give me more information on Rokkenjima-prime. After all she's the one who controls the bomb...only Yasu and some servants know about the bomb, and they would have no reason to talk about it unless they wanted to use it. So if Yasu hasn't murdered anyone...it means that at the time she armed the bomb, only herself, Battler and Eva were alive. Eva or Battler would probably have killed the real culprit, or the culprit would have committed suicide. Then they would go ahead to bury everything.
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2012-02-01, 17:39 | Link #27533 | |
Ordinary Magician
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Gensokyo
Age: 31
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So does that mean that it was not Yasu's fault that the bomb exploded?
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2012-02-01, 17:42 | Link #27534 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Will said that as an answer to one of the riddles, right? I think it was episode 4 where Battler dies in the end even though he's supposedly the last one alive. There's no doubt Yasu is the culprit in the games. A possible theory I am weighing is that she might be innocent of killing/murder in reality. But it's difficult to absolve her of guilt when she controls the bomb. So if she were innocent despite everything, that would narrow down the possible events that lead to the tragedy in Rokkenjima-prime.
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2012-02-01, 17:51 | Link #27535 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Right. And Will's probably just saying that after Yasu died in episode 4 the bomb would kill everyone whether she would have wanted it to by that point or not. She can't change her mind and shut it off after she's dead.
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2012-02-01, 18:01 | Link #27536 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Yes, exactly. One fair assumption I'm making is that if Yasu is innocent, she wouldn't turn on the bomb timer. Even if she was intending to turn it back off later. Playing with that thing already makes her a confirmed lunatic case, you wouldn't turn on the bomb if you weren't prepared to really kill everyone.
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2012-02-01, 18:38 | Link #27537 | ||
The True Culprit
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2012-02-01, 18:51 | Link #27538 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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You should also address the other things I mentioned. Especially the parts about how she distrusted her readers and thought only 1 in a 1000 could enjoy her work properly, since that was never previously shown in Meta-Beatrice's depiction but was really strongly present in Featherine's.
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2012-02-01, 19:10 | Link #27539 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
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In short, she grew up with no real friends, which is an extremely vital part of the identity of a young human. Humans tend to have trouble developing an identity for themselves if they don't even have anyone they can open up to. Everything stays bottled up, and since they don't know anyone all that well, they can't really compare themselves to anyone, so it can be incredibly difficult to sort through their emotions and figure out just what it is they're feeling. Basically, in Yasuda's world, there is only Yasuda. So there's no way for her to really know whether she's a normal kid. She can only assume that she's not, because she hasn't been able to make any friends. So the million-dollar question is, who is Yasuda? Is there anyone she can ask that question to? Of course not, because nobody really knows the answer. Alright then, she'll just have to answer that question all on her own. So she spends a lot of time in introspection, and uses a familiar concept to sort through her thoughts: she'll compare herself to characters in stories. Each of the roles she takes on in life, can be seen as a different persona, a different character. And each one should be given a different name. As a servant, she was given the name Shannon. So her role as a servant becomes "Shannon," and her first friend is the imaginary friend that is the embodiment of the servant she wants to become... That's her ideal. But one day, she realizes, she can play the role of the Witch named "Beatrice." She finds this role exciting, and can express herself through this identity in ways she never could before. All sorts of bottled up emotions now have an outlet. Unfortunately, nobody can see "Beatrice." After all, "Beatrice" is a prankster witch who operates at night, and who lives in dreams and stories. Now she wants to be "Beatrice" more than "Shannon." It's not that she doesn't like "Shannon," but rather that "Shannon" is no longer her ideal. The role of "Shannon" changes accordingly. Into this situation comes a certain Battler. The two start to think of love for the first time, and this motivates Battler to try and understand Yasuda... And vice versa. With Battler, she can create an identity for herself. But she also hopes, that he'll be able to see "Beatrice," who no one else really believes in. And, she wants to leave this screwed up island, and start a better life for herself somewhere else. So they make a promise. "I'll take you away from here, and together, we'll start a new life somewhere else." Only problem is, that promise can only be fulfilled if he comes back to the island while she's still there. If she leaves the island before he comes back, she'll be throwing away the promise. Three years pass, and he aint coming back. Did he forget? She knows that he's got family troubles, and she feels sorry for him, but it's really getting hard to believe in that promise at this point. Even so, she had kept up her hopes for so long because she wanted to believe that she could overturn this ridiculous fate that keeps trapping her and messing up her life. But can she really do it? Because of her hope, she had nursed her love for him until it became an obsession, and now it just hurts, more than she can bear. At that moment, when she's too lonely to bear it, a "Kanon" is born. His role is to be a companion. But she doesn't get an opportunity to be "Kanon" often, so he doesn't really end up as developed as the others. So his personality is basically "hey, I'm furniture." Later, she solves the epitaph, yada yada. A lot could be said about that, but as far as this little story is concerned, it's significance is that she now has a new ray of hope. She knows the truth, GenSawaJo have sworn their loyalty to her, and she has copious amounts of money. She can now leave the island at any time. That's great, except hey. The role of "Beatrice" can only exist on Rokkenjima. And furthermore, if she leaves now, she'll be throwing away that promise. Even so, that doesn't mean she'll never get a chance to leave. So she says to GenSawaJo: "convert some of this gold to cash, and go prepare a place for me to live on Niijima. Register a new name for me too." She decides that "Hachijo" sounds good because she's one yet many. And then, she entrusts the rest to fate. If that promise can ever be fulfilled, she will take on this new identity that she's created. Stuff happens. It's Oct. 5, 1986, and she's given up hope. Battler did come back, but he doesn't seem to remember. For one reason or another, George, Jessica, Maria, and others are all dead. What is she to do now? All of her roles are now kind of gone, because she's lived most of her life on Rokkenjima and most of the people that she spent that time with are dead. Battler's still alive, but there's no hope left of the promise being fulfilled. The only role she has left is "Hachijo." And that, my friends, is the story of how Yasuda became Ikuko. I'll leave everything else in the cat box. After all, the only thing I'm trying to explain with this is her motive for becoming Ikuko. I don't need to explain anything else. Even so, this might give you a new perspective on Yasuda. Or not, I dunno. Quote:
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If you write up a play and people actually act it out on stage, and a crime occurs there because even though you didn't intend for it to, it provided an opportunity for the crime, does that make you, the writer, the one at fault? Obviously not. You just wrote a play. How is that a crime? It wouldn't even make sense if it was. Quote:
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2012-02-01, 19:12 | Link #27540 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I don't know whether Yasu flipped the bomb or not. Heck, we don't know anything on Rockenjima for sure to answer that question. But anyways, I think it's heavily implied that she has intended for everyone in the island to die if nobody solve the epitah, correct me if I wrong. And it's also implied that the murderer at least taking advantages of her little murder game, so you could not say she hold no responsible here. I do believe a lot people want to have a happy ending, however, I would respect and have more sympathy to Yasu if she is actually dead after writing the two bottle messages to put all the blame on her, instead of the rest of the family, than for her to survive and continue writing them for the whole public. |
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