Aquarion EVOL - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Vena]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Except that Mikono was just quoting the movie, she wasn't actually saying the line in reference to Amata at all (she outright says so). Heck Amata recognizes the line from the movie as well. You're really drawing at straws with that one.

Not to interrupt, but this is a visual medium. That means scenes and the background are usually considered as poignant as the wording used. In this is where the problem arises with claiming that fate is being fought. Its not being fought, its being put to the side as the dominant reason (effectively, this is a rerun of Sousei) but it is still a (or the) reason for the initial bonding (as it was in Sousei, where it was not claimed that Apollo/Sylvia were fighting fate. There, they took what their past lives brought them (a chance encounter and an affinity) and fell in love on their own. They ran with fate because it suited them, and then, at the end, started it all over again with meeting 12,000 years later). If they want to follow the theme of fighting fate then this direction makes no sense in that regard, and its not helped when it has been slammed in our faces that everything is following fate:
[1.] Their first meeting is to the movie, and the line of 12,000 years.
[2.] Their date (with the rings) has Amata claiming that it was fate for them to meet.
[3.] Their date for the movie is... to the movie, and they are even floating up with the characters in the background in an identical scene.
When Zessica tells Amata the story, he won't accept it, even if, now in retrospect, its entirely ironic that he's been following said fate even if for reasons other than *because the past said so*. Fighting fate, later? Equally silly. GoldenLad touched on this before but a lot of the message is lost by making Amata=Kagura with no specific distinction between Amata and Kagura aside from fake memories introduces by Mykage. In a completely ironic twist, the one who's actually fighting fate (while blindly following it), is Kagura. He's not meant to exist, he's not meant to have memories of Sylvia, he's not meant to be a person who gets a happy end, yet he tries for it with everything he has because he (as was stated in this episode) refuses to let fate take thing from him.

Claiming that Amata is fighting fate with that sort of imagery right behind you is either a misdirection (which has yet to come up if this follow a deconstruction) or expecting your audience to, as Triple_R said, not be taking a lot this very seriously and not really paying much mind to whatever the story supposedly claims.

If they actually wanted fighting fate then make Amata and Kagura brothers, make it like Sousei but make Amata normal. Same conflict, but you don't lose the majority of the weight in your supposed message message. Otherwise, this is just silly.

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

As for Zessica if your assuming her FATE is not to end up with Amata then (yer I agree she's been pushing hard to end up with him) BUT then AGAIN...it wouldn't have been a FATE for her if she didn't fall in love with him in the first place AND whose to say it is or isn't her FATE we are not or shown what her FATE is

They've written Zessica exceptionally poorly if she turns out to be a reincarnation, and it really undermines the trials and tribulations she went through. At best, at this point, she might turn out to be Touma which means her fate is to always lose, to always be left alone. In which case she'd be fighting fate. If she's a regular person then she's also fighting fate because she's the actual outsider trying to break up the Amagura chasing his destined for one reason or another.

Aside from Touma, who else can she be at this point? I'd prefer no one to give her love, even if futile, meaning. (Next episode, its revealed she's lolsylviapart2, and I find a desk and plant my face onto it in disappointment.)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by crayven

I tend to cheer for the underdog in any anime with romance so I'm prepared to be disappointed most of the time. Ami in Toradora, Sana (the tsundere girl) in Masiphony, Ayase in Ore no Imouto, Noe in True Tears, Akazawa in Another.. the list goes on. One of the few times where the girl I cheer for ends up (sort of) with the MC was the princess in Katanagatari. So yeah, I'm used to disappointment.

I'm passionately with you on Noe, as Demi Soda can attest. I also felt very sorry for Sana and Akazawa. So I'm with you on 3/5 at least.

Still, the way Zessica is tormented every week saddens me more than usual. I have no idea what they are planning to do with her seriously.

Zessica is now definitely up there with Noe and Sayaka Miki as beloved tragic heroines that brings a tear to my eye.

I think the writers know exactly what they are doing when they include those two scenes. They know that those romantic moments Zessica has with Amata (even if onesided) and her character would make her more popular than Mikono.

Well, yeah, but that's why I find it odd. Why do that if you're so obviously going with Amata/Mikono as the final pairing?

I do see one wild way out of this though, that at least might be palatable to Zessica fans. More on that in a sec.

Which makes it even weirder that they don't make Amata respond just a bit positively to Zessica's advances, that way we might have a good triangle like in True Tears.

I passionately agree. That would have made the romance drama in this show so much more compelling, imo.

Now we have two twisted triangles with obvious outcomes which is disappointing.

Well, I don't dislike Kagura, but he was never much more than a "bad boy" antagonist who was there mainly to give Amata and the other protagonists an obstacle to struggle against.

Zessica was more than that, which is why her handling bothers me a lot more than Kagura's.

The only thing that can remotely improve Zessica's chance is her background story which hasn't been revealed yet. I suspect it's somehow related to her fear of ghosts/darkness and the promise with Mykage. I remember Shouma's secret was also revealed quite late in Mawaru Penguindrum and it let me down. Well, now I just hope that whatever her background story is I'm not too disappointed by it. No sad childhood please I"m tired of that already.

I'm calling quits now on any chance on Amata/Zessica. Like I said, Amata is Mikono-sexual. Those who are shipping Amata/Zessica might as well accept it.


But... awhile ago I half-jokingly suggested that maybe Aquarion EVOL will go all Star Wars on us: Izumo is Darth Vader, Amata is Luke Skywalker, and Zessica is Princess Leia (hence why her personal history has been so shrouded; that's the big shocking reveal).

This would mean Izumo gets to say "Amata, I am your father!", but it would also mean that Amata and Zessica are brother and sister. Then at least Zessica might be able to somewhat comfortably slide into loving Amata "as her brother". It would also make for a cool, shocking reveal, imo (I'd love to see Zessica's expression at hearing that she passionately kissed her long-lost brother ).

Barring something wild like this, it's hard to see how this ends well for Zessica...

[Winged_Memories]

Aside from Touma, who else can she be at this point? I'd prefer no one to give her love, even if futile, meaning. (Next episode, its revealed she's lolsylviapart2, and I find a desk and plant my face onto it in disappointment.)[/QUOTE]


Are you being serious about her being Sylvia part 2? LOL I'll do more than just plant my face on top of my desk (I'll run through my whole neighborhood x 2) just so I can calm down

[Destined_Fate]

That's what I've been trying to say, you've conveyed it much better than I have. This episode was extreely facepalm worthy because Amata kepy going on and on about wanting to resist fate and destiny against Kagura and Mikono getting together. Which makes no sense because if fate and destiny are to be taken seruously than she's literally destined for Amata and not Kagura who's a fake. So again, why did they even try to shove this down our throats? Is it that hard to admit that yeah, they messed up and Amata and Mikono getting together had nothing to do with fighting fate or destiny and are just meant for each other no matter who gets in the way.

Which doesn't explain why they spent so much time developing Zessica who embodies the whole fighting fate and destiny thing if they planned from the start for her to lose. Seriously, what are they thinking? Writers block? Panic over realizing that they've been contradicting their theme and made Amata into a hypocrite? And why did they degress Mikono and turned her into a glorified trophy? The journey was supposed to be about her actually doing something and becoming useful but this episode she was completely useless and has done nothing but get kidnapped again.

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Harem-like relationship? Was there harem in Macross F movie 2?? LOL Errr :S

That's why I said harem-like because in the anime he had both girls that he did show an interest too. Than the Movie came out that phased Ranka out of the picture and was heavily Sheryl bias, than it ends with Alto.... Vanishing after saying what he really feels.

It seems like Characters in that situation just aren't allowed to pick or settle with just one without dire consequences.

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Aside from Touma, who else can she be at this point? I'd prefer no one to give her love, even if futile, meaning. (Next episode, its revealed she's lolsylviapart2, and I find a desk and plant my face onto it in disappointment.)

They may just merge Amata and Kagura than Mikono and Zessica so they don't have to deal with the mess they've gotten themselves in. Which would only do MORE harm to the characters and negate the whole reason Zessica has been suffering since if she's part 2 than she's destined for Amata anyway.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Are you being serious about her being Sylvia part 2? LOL I'll do more than just plant my face on top of my desk (I'll run through my whole neighborhood x 2) just so I can calm down

I can't see Zessica being Sylvia part 2. She should "smell" to Kagura if that's the case, shouldn't she? And I've seen Kagura run by her like she was not even there.

Plus, the "all-fusion" ending (Amagura ends up with Zessikono) is way too easy an out for Okada, imo. She's not that merciful.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Are you being serious about her being Sylvia part 2? LOL I'll do more than just plant my face on top of my desk (I'll run through my whole neighborhood x 2) just so I can calm down

I was joking, of course.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

That's what I've been trying to say, you've conveyed it much better than I have. This episode was extreely facepalm worthy because Amata kepy going on and on about wanting to resist fate and destiny against Kagura and Mikono getting together. Which makes no sense because if fate and destiny are to be taken seruously than she's literally destined for Amata and not Kagura who's a fake. So again, why did they even try to shove this down our throats? Is it that hard to admit that yeah, they messed up and Amata and Mikono getting together had nothing to do with fighting fate or destiny and are just meant for each other no matter who gets in the way.

Which doesn't explain why they spent so much time developing Zessica who embodies the whole fighting fate and destiny thing if they planned from the start for her to lose. Seriously, what are they thinking? Writers block? Panic over realizing that they've been contradicting their theme and made Amata into a hypocrite? And why did they degress Mikono and turned her into a glorified trophy? The journey was supposed to be about her actually doing something and becoming useful but this episode she was completely useless and has done nothing but get kidnapped again.



That's why I said harem-like because in the anime he had both girls that he did show an interest too. Than the Movie came out that phased Ranka out of the picture and was heavily Sheryl bias, than it ends with Alto.... Vanishing after saying what he really feels.

It seems like Characters in that situation just aren't allowed to pick or settle with just one without dire consequences.



They may just merge Amata and Kagura than Mikono and Zessica so they don't have to deal with the mess they've gotten themselves in. Which would only do MORE harm to the characters and negate the whole reason Zessica has been suffering since if she's part 2 than she's destined for Amata anyway.

WOW...we all have really lost faith in the writers...I'm sure there are reasons why they have written the characters like this and I'm pretty sure the writing would have been done before the animation and have been reviewed over and over again. I have a lot of respect in Kawamori's directing so I'm sure they intended this from the very beginning with good and plausible reasoning.

[Destined_Fate]

I feel bad for Zessica, even after hearing Amata's confession(Was hard to find since it was buried by all the crude he was spewing about defying fate/destiny when fate/destiny are on his side thus making him look like a moron and a hypocrite) she still wants him to see her love that she has for him in the off chance that he will return her feelings. Unless they salvage things Zessica may very well end up dying after all and worst of all is that Mikono may get both Amata and Kagura anyway through fusion/connection. So really... What the heck writers?

[Zuul]

Something I realized reading Vena's post is that Kagura the supposedly pro fate one is the one who tried to take action against fate following his mother on Altea.

More inconsistency ...LOL

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Vena

I was joking, of course.

.....trolled...but I wouldn't have mind...then maybe I would be getting my Apollo x Sylvia ending (which is why I am watching this anime)

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I feel bad for Zessica, even after hearing Amata's confession(Was hard to find since it was buried by all the crude he was spewing about defying fate/destiny when fate/destiny are on his side thus making him look like a moron and a hypocrite) she still wants him to see her love that she has for him in the off chance that he will return her feelings. Unless they salvage things Zessica may very well end up dying after all and worst of all is that Mikono may get both Amata and Kagura anyway through fusion/connection. So really... What the heck writers?

Hmmm I'm not to sure on that one...seems like to me Zessica was getting her groove back and was saying that as in a "You may love someone else but I will always love you even if you don't return my feelings" sense so like she will support Amata (but keep her love to herself) err honestly I don't want anyone else to die, Jin died, and now possibly Shrade is dead I mean how many characters do they need to kill off? SERIOUSLY!!!!

[Destined_Fate]

I have a feeling that Mykage will put Kagura, Mikono, and Zessica(against her will) on the Legendary Aqauarion. Than from there they may do the lulz "fusion" thing on Amata and Kagura than put Amagura in there. I really hope that isn't the case, it would be too predictable and terrible writing on their part.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I feel bad for Zessica, even after hearing Amata's confession(Was hard to find since it was buried by all the crude he was spewing about defying fate/destiny when fate/destiny are on his side thus making him look like a moron and a hypocrite) she still wants him to see her love that she has for him in the off chance that he will return her feelings.

Why is this surprising? Zessica has been billed, filmed, and packaged as someone who doesn't *just* give up. No less, if you pay attention to the scenes, she's not going to remember Mykage in her little dream. She's only going to remember Amata.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I have a feeling that Mykage will put Kagura, Mikono, and Zessica(against her will) on the Legendary Aqauarion. Than from there they may do the lulz "fusion" thing on Amata and Kagura than put Amagura in there. I really hope that isn't the case, it would be too predictable and terrible writing on their part.

I think the final Aquarion Fusion is going to be Amagura, Mikono, and Zessica. The Love Quadrangle finally brought entirely together at last!

[Destined_Fate]

It still makes it horrible since Amata's reaction was pretty terrible, may just be bad writing. The girl nearly died for him and was his first kiss, yet it's just like "Oh you're fine! Cool! Thanks for Unioning and helping me try and get Mikono who I'm totally destined for!".

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Hmmm I'm not to sure on that one...seems like to me Zessica was getting her groove back and was saying that as in a "You may love someone else but I will always love you even if you don't return my feelings" sense so like she will support Amata (but keep her love to herself) err honestly I don't want anyone else to die, Jin died, and now possibly Shrade is dead I mean how many characters do they need to kill off? SERIOUSLY!!!!

Yet when she said lets union sh thought to herself that she will show Amata her love that she has or him. Which means that even after nearly dying, getting mindraped again by Mykage, and seeing that confession she still chooses to fight fight and try and get with Amata. It's true to her character but Amata's handling of it was just harsh.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think the final Aquarion Fusion is going to be Amagura, Mikono, and Zessica. The Love Quadrangle finally brought entirely together at last!

That will only work if they fuse Zessica and Mikono together, that way they can say "See, everyones happy!". Than for good measure fuse Andy and Mixy together for the lulz. Than reveal that Andy and Mixy love each other because they're actually destined for each other and were both part of the same person 12,000 years ago and that Mix was always a man in soul! And somehow that would make total sense.

[Zuul]

I wonder if Amata hasn't been built at some sort of anti Harem lead.

He knows exactly who he wants which should have been a desirable trait but ended up as annoying as the harem MCs indecisiveness because of the writting.

[Gohan78]

Re: Amata's reaction to Zessica's survival.
I don't think he is being cold, it's just a matter of circumstances. They are piloting the vectors and getting ready to Union to fight a Cherubim. It's not exactly the best time to throw a welcome home party.
Still, I felt the joy in Amata's voice when he said "Zessica! You're alive!". Haters gonna hate.

Re: Mikono being useless again.
And what could she do? She was delivered on top of a frickin' tower. She has neither Kagura's agility nor Amata's flying power. The only thing she could do was yell at the both of them to stop fighting. And guess what? That's exactly what she did.
Again, haters gonna hate.

[Destined_Fate]

They may try and make him offer a better reaction when they aren't fighting but considering how the writers have been dragging Zessica through the mud I don't think they'll even bring it up again and we'll just have to settle with that as his only reaction.

She could have struggled or even said "No!". Anything, I mean she's been in far more dire circumstances and still struggled than. What makes this any different? Doesn't help that she didn't seem all that worried being in Kagura's arms considering that he just said he wanted to have sex with her over and over again even if it's against her will.

[Iwa Ite]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Re: Amata's reaction to Zessica's survival.
I don't think he is being cold, it's just a matter of circumstances. They are piloting the vectors and getting ready to Union to fight a Cherubim. It's not exactly the best time to throw a welcome home party.
Still, I felt the joy in Amata's voice when he said "Zessica! You're alive!". Haters gonna hate.

Re: Mikono being useless again.
And what could she do? She was delivered on top of a frickin' tower. She has neither Kagura's agility nor Amata's flying power. The only thing she could do was yell at the both of them to stop fighting. And guess what? That's exactly what she did.
Again, haters gonna hate.

Yeah, I thought the same about Amata's reaction.

True that. Zen could've helped Mikono. He's everywhere, right ? He did carry Crea around couple times

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Re: Mikono being useless again.
And what could she do? She was delivered on top of a frickin' tower. She has neither Kagura's agility nor Amata's flying power. The only thing she could do was yell at the both of them to stop fighting. And guess what? That's exactly what she did.
Again, haters gonna hate.

I'm more blaming it on the writters than Mikono anyway. They should have put her in a position where she could have done something. Instead of that she was prize-Mikono.