International Saimoe League 2009

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite

So they are trying to defend the sanctity of Saimoe by organizing rallies of people to vote based on reasons completely unrelated to moe. >_>

But it is related to the moe contest.

It's an issue of what rightfully qualifies. We've gone from "characters need to be represented by an anime" to the implication of "...represented by a legitimate anime." The question lies in what's legitimate now that doujin anime has been accepted? The staff has made their decision, others don't agree with that... or at least don't wholeheartedly agree.

[melange]

Originally Posted by Mushi

The creator of the club states in one of the comments that he used the plainest picture of Reimu he could find. It's still cute, though. Not a good idea to single out just one character like that.

Actually.. thinking about it... they could use a pic of one of those "yukkuri"s... I'm sure that'll look ugly/annoying enough... why the hell am I helping them to think?

[Ithekro]

Well, from my point of view...without any more stimulus I think I could only vote for Reimu and Patchy in regular matches. The other three don't do much for me at this time. Aya is so-so due to her lulz ways, but Marisa and Remilia don't do anything for me.

Two of the others that didn't make it this far on the other hand...Sakuya would get voice love, and Suika because she came off as cute/funny in her short time onscreen.

(Reimu would be singled out because she's in practically every game)

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Uh, I know what implied odds and pot odds are, so I am not willing to make a bet on Fate. Besides, my "Swim the Yangtze" bet at the moment is that a Touhou candidate will not make top 16 in this contest.

Back! From Hanoi! Yes. Hanoi! Where top speed is 54 mbps!
And my "Swim Da River" bet [yes, there is such a river, and yes, it IS meant to be a pun] is that... Either Kyoani or JC Staff will flood the list. Yeah. With 5 titles each, it is major. Major Flood.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Mushi

But it is related to the moe contest.

It's an issue of what rightfully qualifies. We've gone from "characters need to be represented by an anime" to the implication of "...represented by a legitimate anime." The question lies in what's legitimate now that doujin anime has been accepted? The staff has made their decision, others don't agree with that... or at least don't wholeheartedly agree.

Well, part of ISML allowing "doujin anime" as opposed to Saimoe or K Moe allowing "doujin anime" is that this contest is virtually an open invitation to thousands of girls vying for 64 elite eligible slots, so the fact that a doujin anime is seriously competing for 5 of those slots must mean that the doujin anime has got to be seriously impressive to a certain extent. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been in preliminary action to begin with, as our cutoff point is extremely high.

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

...so the fact that a doujin anime is seriously competing for 5 of those slots must mean that the doujin anime has got to be seriously impressive to a certain extent.

But therein lies the... issue. It is NOT the doujin anime that is making the impression, it's the huge popularity of the game and doujin work that is being related to the girls. The anime is just a "foot in the door" that Touhou fans are using to.... crash the party, so to speak.

In an attempt to become more familiar with Touhou, I've been doing some reading. Ithekro, I just made the connection with a post you made 12 pages ago...

Hakurei Reimu = Nakahara Mai
Shameimaru Aya = Fujimura Ayumi
Kirisame Marisa = Sawashiro Miyuki
Patchouli Knowledge = Takahashi Mikako
Remilia Scarlet = Tsuji Ayumi

I remembered seeing that list, but for some reason brushed past it I'm sorry to say. And, I'm not as mentally adept at relating seiyuu to different roles as I wish I was (I rely on the wiki a lot).

Just to touch on a few.

Mai Nakahara - Higurashi's Rena, Clannad's Nagisa, MGLN's Teana Lanster
Miyuki Sawashiro - Shinku, Kannagi's Tsugumi,
Rie Tanaka does Sakuya (you left her out) - Do I need to list anything?
Also Kikuko Inoue (Belldandy) does the narration.

Heh... no wonder I was so impressed by the voice acting. And I see now, after some reading, that the cast for this was big news surrounding the release of this anime.

[Ithekro]

I just listed the ones involved in the contest...my voice love for Rie Tanaka is ever present and Kikuko Inoue is fairly obvious for the "...17 years old" line at the end. Though I wish Sanae (Clannad) had gotten into the contest...MILF wanted.

[chaosprophet]

With the addition of Touhou ISML looks like these Strategy Games where you have two armies (pro and anti Kyoani) and then in a sequel they add a new army (Touhou)... XD

Originally Posted by Mushi

If anything, I did feel some annoyance over the notion that Clannad popularity was high simply because of it being the latest KyoAni, and KyoAni was all that some people cared about.

I'm one who spent 60 or 70 hours watching anime I'd never otherwise bother with last year, just to give the girls in the contest a chance to make their impressions on me. So, I guess I take offense at the idea that a single series is dominating because of stubborn, single-minded fans who don't take the time to care about anything else.

There's no real justification on my part for feeling that way, it's just something that comes as part of the passion of it all.

It would be better if anyone participating would do the same as you but not everyone has enough free time to do so..

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

my voice love for Rie Tanaka is ever present

Same here. Even though I didn't pick up on the voice right away, I did get a special vibe from Sakuya. I'm usually too busy following subtitles and trying to get a feel for art and animation the first time through something. It usually isn't until a few episodes into a series that I start noticing voices... unless I know who it is from the start.

Kikuko Inoue is just..... a goddess. Through and through. Belldandy is forever carried deep in my heart. She has been and always will be my choice for the "If you could marry an anime character" question.

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by uis

Good job KS... i know you frust with Vita performance...
Anyway i hope you continue post this after each round... onegai...

Thanks. Even though Anya and Shinku are seen as the higher ranking characters right now, their performance actually decreased in the second round (although by less than 1.00). Chii, Osaka, and the others might pull an upset, although it would be a predicted upset, har har.

[Ithekro]

Hmmm.
Rumor has it that that Haruhi-chan series will be starting the middle of next month...at least according to Haruhi.tv.

It is therefore not unreasonable that Haruhi and company could get a boost at that point forward.

[cicido]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Hmmm.
Rumor has it that that Haruhi-chan series will be starting the middle of next month...at least according to Haruhi.tv.

It is therefore not unreasonable that Haruhi and company could get a boost at that point forward.

Not as much a boost that Season 2 will give...
Oh wait.

[Ithekro]

It is unlikely that a Second Season would appear anytime before Double Eminination..if that. Since at this time...no one outside Kyoto has any clue what direction they intend to go after Clannad and Munto are finished.

[Blacksmith_Tony]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

Anyway so a questio to everybody:

Who do you want to enter ISML from the remaining characters?

Illya, Misuzu, Makoto, Yuuhi, Miyamura Miyako, Rimi, Haruka, Kotori and Index. Although I'm guessing that Rimi, Kotori and Miyako are going to have a pretty rough time. Hopefully with the Touhou votes gone next round, some of those will qualify.

On the subject of Touhou as much as I'd like to really get annoyed about how well they;ve done, I'd feel like a hypocrite since I know I'm influenced by factors outside the anime when I vote. Prime example is Illya, who's going to be first pick all year (if she gets through the prelims), and I'm highly influenced by some of her scenes in the game.

My question to those that have played the Touhou games, are the characters really moe in the games (and moe enough to beat so many others so easily)? If they are, then I'd be a little happier, even if some of their votes are just Touhou support votes.

[OverFunk]

Originally Posted by Blacksmith_Tony

My question to those that have played the Touhou games, are the characters really moe in the games (and moe enough to beat so many others so easily)? If they are, then I'd be a little happier, even if some of their votes are just Touhou support votes.

Psieye would have a field day explaining how the Touhou characters are built by the fanbase doujin engine more than the games. I'd say a 80 fanon media:20 canon media ratio.

[LazyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Blacksmith_Tony

My question to those that have played the Touhou games, are the characters really moe in the games (and moe enough to beat so many others so easily)? If they are, then I'd be a little happier, even if some of their votes are just Touhou support votes.

To be perfectly honest the games suck, they are RIDICULOUSLY hard to play, and most people hate them because of that, i'm similar but i still play the games cause it gives me something to do.

Putting it rather blunt, ZUN cant draw worth crap, all his pictures that appear when the characters are talking with the enemy are kinda laughable, the one exception being the two fighter touhous, but then i dont think ZUN had any part in the drawing for those.

like overfunk said i'd be willing to bet about the same if not more, 85-90% of the Touhou fanbase is from all the fanon works, doujins, music whatever. Zun makes the games and the fans run away with it making up their own personalities and character quirks and whatever else they think of.

[Team Rocket Elite]

The Touhou characters have their moments in the games, official manga and other official works. I'm still relatively new to the Touhou fanbase, but a lot of the support does come from the fan works.

[Cluelessly]

Originally Posted by LazyCanuck

To be perfectly honest the games suck, they are RIDICULOUSLY hard to play, and most people hate them because of that, i'm similar but i still play the games cause it gives me something to do.

Putting it rather blunt, ZUN cant draw worth crap, all his pictures that appear when the characters are talking with the enemy are kinda laughable, the one exception being the two fighter touhous, but then i dont think ZUN had any part in the drawing for those.

like overfunk said i'd be willing to bet about the same if not more, 85-90% of the Touhou fanbase is from all the fanon works, doujins, music whatever. Zun makes the games and the fans run away with it making up their own personalities and character quirks and whatever else they think of.

Actually, I heard Touhou is pretty easy comparatively...but I've only played Touhou so...

I find practicing pacifist runs until I can handle lunatic reasonably is a good way to go about it. Well, there are some that I can never do right. For those you really just go as long as you can then bomb. The bomb changes in the later games are really helpful in clearing what should be the harder parts of the game.

Also, it's easier if you play the broken team. IN was the very first game I played and I managed to 1cc Lunatic before figuring out I could watch replays made by other people. Border team hax is hax.

And yes, the fighting games are done by others.

That being said I didn't vote for any Touhou characters since I only really like Raymoo and I don't think her canon "I don't care attitude" which I like about her is exactly moe. But you guys shouldn't hate Touhou over a moe contest.

[LazyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Cluelessly

Actually, I heard Touhou is pretty easy comparatively...but I've only played Touhou so...

What? elaborate please lol.

I find practicing pacifist runs until I can handle lunatic reasonably is a good way to go about it. Well, there are some that I can never do right. For those you really just go as long as you can then bomb. The bomb changes in the later games are really helpful in clearing what should be the harder parts of the game.

I've been meaning to ask about what a "Pacifist run" is, I've seen it written a few times but i've never bothered to learn what it means what playing a touhou game.

That being said I didn't vote for any Touhou characters since I only really like Raymoo and I don't think her canon "I don't care attitude" which I like about her is exactly moe. But you guys shouldn't hate Touhou over a moe contest.

No, no one should hate touhou over this crap, like i've said a few times before, i may be against them being in here but i refuse to hate them in anyway because of it, its a stupid reason to get all bent out of shape over them. ~__~

[melange]

I may not do the subject justice but I will try..

The division between official work and doujin work is porous in Japan. Clamp (X, CG chara design) began as a doujin group, Peach-Pit (Rozen Maiden) began as a doujin group. Seiyuu's may work in productions that are doujin in nature as we saw with the Maikaze Touhou anime.

Touhou is a work where the division between official and non-official is ambiguous to the extreme. Touhou itself is a doujin game, made by one person, Zun, who does all the programming, drawing, music etc, and sold only at Comiket, the premier doujin festival. On this very basic level, Touhou thus seems like a product by an individual, but in reality, especially when it comes to the characters, it resembles more a collaborative group creation. All Zun does at best is set very broad guidelines through his profiles for the characters and the dialogue he writes (this dialog is accessible at http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Touhou_Wiki, click in each individual game and click the link that says 'translation' at the 'story' bit), while the fans fill in the rest. Their personalities, quirks and eccentricities, relationships are slowly developed layer by layer with each fan interpretation. The richness and vibrancy of the Touhou characters comes from the personal investment put into them by the fans.

The Touhou situation makes me think of William Gibson's novel Idoru, where when the protagonist Laney views the official corporate material/information of Rez the singer, it feels cold and devoid of 'character'. However, when the material/information of Rez's fan activity base are overlaid on it, 'life' and personality instantly emerge. The "life" of the character lies at least in part in the overlay of fan discourse.

But, why must moe be limited by "official" sources? Why must moe be limited by medium? To me what matters is the character and the character alone. Because what are we judging but the moe of a character? Seiyuu, official source, canon/fanon, anime, manga, novel, game are all subsurvient to the character. Whichever medium/source manages to bring out best the potential in the character, whatever that medium/source may be, that then is an important part of the character's existence.

Some will argue (I know you're there) that "this is an anime saimoe, so only anime is considered". No, their eligibility comes from anime but their full character and personality are made up of much more than anime. Why should we take away part of what is the richness/personality in a character? Why essentially lobotomize a character by only keeping what's shown in the anime and throwing away everything else? In J-saimoe, you are actually encouraged to consider all support materials, including fan-drawn images, fan written essays/stories, fan made amvs etc when deciding how to vote. They don't draw this strict and honestly restrictive corral around their tournament. Why should we?

Note this does not mean that then you "have to see everything in order to judge a character". You are encouraged to consider it, but you are not forced to consider it. Likewise, have the courtesy not to force others not to consider the other sources of a character's charm.

Originally Posted by LazyCanuck

I've been meaning to ask about what a "Pacifist run" is, I've seen it written a few times but i've never bothered to learn what it means what playing a touhou game.

A pacifist run is playing while not shooting. Because each enemy attack/spellcard has a timer you can get advance in the game w/o shooting at all by just waiting out the attack. Because of the difficulty of the attack its not that easily done.