2013-01-23, 15:44 | Link #21 |
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35
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I'm tempted to say Gintama ... but I'm not sure which episodes were really just the actors messing around or if they were reading from the director's notes. (It's just that kind of show)
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Last edited by Arabesque; 2013-01-23 at 16:27. Reason: spelling ... |
2013-01-23, 19:50 | Link #22 | |
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american cartoon are manufactured in america ?
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2013-01-23, 20:17 | Link #23 | |
AS Oji-kun
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Age: 74
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2013-01-23, 21:54 | Link #24 |
Japanese Culture Fan
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 33
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I don't have an issue with the lip thing, really. Other Japanese animation techniques can feel really cheap if not executed/paced well enough, though.
Just look at Little Busters recently. Whatever animation there is is usually decent or above average, but I see a great overuse of slow camera panning, lazy stills, and cheap tricks to simulate movement with minimal frames. None of those I particularly mind, but Little Busters just used them too much and at inappropriate moments. gdgd Fairies, if I'm not mistaken. |
2013-01-24, 05:53 | Link #25 | ||
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That these same techniques are still being used are a factor of inertia, cost-cutting and style. And that most of the target audience doesn't really mind. Personally, I sort of like the idea of recording voices after the animation. In the other kind of recording will often record each voice actor individually and just mix them together. In anime, all the voice actors of a particular scene will record their lines in the recording studio at the same time, so there's a bit of playing off of other people's performances. Quote:
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2013-01-24, 07:28 | Link #27 | |
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Speaking of SHAFT (and lip animation), the long awaited Fate/Extra CCC had been posted for the world to see. (be warned, it is NSFW)
SHAFT (and to an extent, Akiyuki Shinbou) style had always been interesting to watch. When he has enough time (more than often than not, accidentally since no one in SHAFT seems to be able to manage a time table to save their life), he is able to produce something amazing visually, and really worth watching. Unfortunately, they never seem to have much time, and a s a result ... Quote:
And that episode of Bakemonogatari where it was made out of stills (that you could actually see the grain staying still j/k (or am I?)) And then there was that one time with the Negima movie where they didn't include 20 minutes of the film when it first premiered due to them failing to finish it in time. And there are many examples. Then they would go an ''blog'' about the reactions on some episode of Sayonara Zetsubo Sense top it all off. I've always wondered how could a studio that managed to produce two of the biggest financial hits (anime-wise) in modern time and still not seem to be able to find people to match their work load.
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2013-01-24, 07:33 | Link #28 | ||
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The Fate/Extra CCC OP looks pretty awful, but at least it looks better than the Sasami-san one.
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2013-01-24, 08:12 | Link #29 |
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The thing is, there are only 2 animators worth a damn in SHAFT: Gen'Ichirou Abe and Ryo Imamura. After that, everything else is up to freelancers' availability to work for them. A lot of good animation from SHAFT recently comes from Nozomu Abe and Hironori Tanaka, but they aren't inhouse animators and this means that if they're busy on something else, or can't match the schedules, or simply don't want to animate for them, they won't.
I don't like that Fate OP too much, but it's more of a problem with the storyboard and Shinbo's characteristic style than true bad animation. There are some good bits in there, even if misplaced. As for recording the voice based on the animation, I guess it boils down to the approach you're taking to the presentation. Animating based on the vocal performance means the storyboard and animation will go more towards the character acting and delivery of the lines, and in the long term animators are going to be more specialized in characters and expressions than anything else. (we see this in most western animated productions where the process is like this). The japanese method gives a bit more freedom for the storyboard, and it tends to focus a lot of the times on the backgrounds, whatever quirky symbolism the director wants to fit in and things like that, so the character acting is not as emphasized (that's not to say there aren't good character pieces in animation, just look at the latest Okiura movie, Ghibli productions or, for TV, any Kyoani production). A lot of japanese animation tends to strive to make movements interesting because that's what the storyboard will focus on a lot of the times. Honestly, western animation was never good at making action sequences exciting, whereas japanese animation has a whole philosophy dedicated to making the best action with the least frames. This may have arisen out of monetary concerns at first, but it became a style of its own, with unique characteristics and benefits, and it gives results that are as good as more "classical" ways of approaching the subject. Well... this post seems like a mindless rant now that I look at it, but whatever. |
2013-01-24, 08:47 | Link #30 | ||
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I was wondering about how to the minute Japan animation is, b/c in America if voices aren't done by when final animation starts or the script changes when final animation is done, a whole lot of money and time has to be wasted to fix it, and the sponsors start thinking about stop paying. Moreso since final animation is done halfway across the world now, there's no room for changes. Quote:
From what I'm reading in this thread, it seems to be mainly style and tradition more than anything else (excepting when studios do it to be way cheap or not finish stuff on time). |
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2013-01-24, 13:14 | Link #31 |
Criminal Unrequitor
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Along with Kurenai and Red Garden, if I'm not mistaken Natsuyuki Rendezvous also does voice acting first before animation. In any case, I'm fairly sure the reason behind the lack of lip animation is budget restraints. There isn't that big a reason for it.
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2013-01-24, 13:28 | Link #32 | |
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I think that Warm Mist gave us a pretty good explanation: the workflow of animation production has always been to put the voice acting in at the very end. This workflow can be changed, but it will only be done for exceptionally good reasons, and not all directors are interested in changing the way they plan productions.
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2013-01-24, 18:01 | Link #33 |
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Lip flaps are usually avoided when the scene is important enough. (That's only for high production value works, though.) But the truth is that you need more frames and more talent to achieve a good result, so it's normally high-profile productions that manage to avoid the problem for key scenes.
Anyway, just watch Akira. |
2013-01-24, 21:32 | Link #34 | |
Japanese Culture Fan
Join Date: Nov 2008
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There's also Kamichu. That series really surprised me with how everything (including lip movement) was so animated compared to what I was used to from anime. |
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