(L) Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ (Nitroplus & Bee Train)

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I suspect that having played the game or read the manga before is a detriment to enjoying the show, as usual.

I think so because the freshness of the story is gone. However, wherever possible, I read the original work and even the episode summaries before watching anything, so most series are on equal footing. I love some shows despite knowing what happens, but Phantom isn't one of them.

How well a show entertains people who know the details......I think about this a lot. Presentation and filmmaking qualities are things I want to learn about, and we often ignore these things if a story seems interesting. Take this season's Umineko for example. It's a horribly done show that pays no attention to details, pace, or atmosphere. However, because the original story is mysterious, most viewers forgive or fail to notice the faults.

If it's just the adaptation that you're calling mechanical, that makes me wonder how the writers can win: if they stick to the original, they're mechanical; if they change it, they are castigated for every change.

Depending on reception, I think they might have to find some balance. While studios previously swung heavily toward taking liberties, we're seeing a knee-jerk reaction to today's backlash against that kind of show. They're now swinging toward the opposite end of the spectrum, even if some things don't translate well (or were mediocre to begin with ).

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but maybe you want more obvious emotion? But less emotion on the surface and more real humanity beneath is one of the things I like about this show. And I got a great hit of emotion from the soulless Elen a couple of times, thanks to Takagaki Ayahi.

I'll have to rewatch the show to make a better assessment, but my impression is that the emotion is actually too obvious.

This is probably where previous experience with the source hurt my enjoyment. However, the game was heavy in exposition and narration, and it gave the reader hours to appreciate each character's situation.

In the adapted version, the characters generally act and respond the same way but the buildup isn't there. There's little breathing room -> almost like the writers follow a straight path and painstakingly calculate the time needed to go from Point A to B to C..........if that makes any sense. The director tries to compensate by heightening the emotion during key scenes, but that makes it worse for me.

It's hard to convert a novel, but instead of methodically keeping key scenes and cutting expository fat, I guess I would favor a few original episodes to expand on characters. The Tony Stone arc helped a little, but even that focused on the action side of things.

Can you tell me where to find staff info that shows the same editors doing both this and Hayate2? Certainly different studios and editing studios, but I'm not doubting what you say, just want to know how to find such info. I found the Hayate info on an atwiki, but can't find it for Phantom.

Oops! By edit, I actually meant the series story editor, Yousuke Kuroda.

What's interesting is that Phantom and Hayate don't just share Kuroda, but also most of the same writers.

Hideki Shirane -> Phantom 05, Hayate 01/16/17
Kazuho Hyodo -> Phantom 02/07/12/16, Hayate 06/07/11/12/18
Shougo Yasukawa -> Phantom 03/10/14, Hayate 04/08
Tatsuya Takahashi -> Phantom 08/09/15, Hayate 02/03/13
Yousuke Kuroda -> Phantom 01/04/17, Hayate 10

Kuroda Yousuke adapted this and co-adapts that. But he also did Gundam00 and both Honey & Clover shows. I thought H&C, especially the first series, was a very successful adaptation, and it was incredibly faithful to the manga, as you say this is to the game. I feel some of the subtlety and human sensitivity of that here, to be honest.

Never watched Honey & Clover, but I just learned that Kuroda adapted Hellsing Ultimate, which I don't like either. Guess it could be his methodology I'm unhappy with.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Brutally put, in my opinion the taste of the japanese fanbase is horrible and 90% incompatible with my own. They have started with a very strange and disconcerting worship of moe productions of well-liked animation studios (the excesses about the amazingly mediocre K-On will linger in my mind for a long time). And few animation studios take the risk of new, original shows anymore, leading to a flood of conversions. And here, no matter how excellent they are (Phantom or Hayate), there will always be complaints. Another example: FMA Brotherhood - wonderful conversion, and quickly dwindling viewership.

Not a fan of shallow moe or crass service either. Dropped K-On after two episodes, and to me, its smashing success is a sign of everything that's wrong with the anime industry. However, I don't know if these conversions are the answer. Something's got to be wrong when follow ups to popular shows lose their audiences. I don't watch FMA, but I've heard similar complaints -> that fans feel a lack of energy and passion from the animators. In a highly creative field, literal interpretations may not be the ideal fit.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by TJR

However, I don't know if these conversions are the answer. Something's got to be wrong when follow ups to popular shows lose their audiences. I don't watch FMA, but I've heard similar complaints -> that fans feel a lack of energy and passion from the animators. In a highly creative field, literal interpretations may not be the ideal fit.

The reason people are complaining about FMA:B is because they're rushing through it way too fast. The manga is monthly, with an average of about 42 pages per chapter. Despite that, each episode so far has done between two and four chapters per episode. They leave out many scenes, and though they may not be "important", they're scenes that shouldn't be removed just to rush through the series.

It's not a problem with direct conversions at all. It's just that people want new material, since they've already read/played the original. Nostalgia then comes in, and prevents them from feeling the same way towards the adaptation. However, when new material on current properties comes in, we get horrible stories that usually directly conflict with the source material, which ends up pissing everyone off.

So really, there's no way to win. The Japanese audience wants moe blob, so that's what they get. The only other thing that seems to do well is shounen shows like Dragonball Kai, One Piece, and Naruto. Then there's the fact that many fans buy the manga, which is ridiculously cheap in Japan (about $4 for a volume, or $2.50 for a magazine). However, the anime versions are ridiculously expensive, coming in at approximately $10-20 per episode. It's really only the die-hards that buy everything up, and once they either run out of money, die, or nerd-rage out, the anime industry will likely either collapse or be forced to go into a rapid restructuring.

[FireChick]

I have a question. Since Ein and Zwei got character CDs out, are they gonna make one for Cal? Just curious (loves Sawashiro Miyuki).

[Kaoru Chujo]

@orion

Spoiler for ep18:

The idea that finding Elen and having to keep safe himself drove all thought of finding Cal out of his mind becomes such a normal, banal, human betrayal. Which in this case is a good thing, since it adds to the tragedy.

@coroloro -- From the start, there has been something about the way Sawashiro Miyuki is voicing Cal that has made me leery of her.

Spoiler for ep19:

It seems a bit much that she has been associated with Scythe from the start, but possible, as you say: I don't recall her doing any of her fixing while he was round to see it. I don't think she set the explosion, because she seemed surprised to see the smoke there.

@TJR -- Thanks for the interesting and informative responses. They give me more angles on the show.

@FireChick -- I checked the official site and 2channel and couldn't find any suggestion of a Miyukichi CD. Yet.

[-Sho-]

Spoiler for Episode 19:

LOOOOOOOL , well , recap episode with some news footage .
Cal went to the video store . BUT DAMN , scythe bastard , why ... omg .. don't accept Cal .. but yeah , she doesn't have the choice ... it explains the pistol and the clock watch in the previous episode ... omg ...
Reiji x Elen will go to Mexico ! Damn DRAMA PLOT is coming !!

Ow the preview is good ! I like Elen in school uniform with the "bang" ^^

[Boduar]

Guess ill hold since im too lazy for spoiler tags(edit)

[[DOT].L]

Spoiler for Epi 19:

Oh bleh, I had a feeling Cal was going to get recruited by you-know-who. Still, I raged when it actually happened.

[orion]

Originally Posted by FireChick

I have a question. Since Ein and Zwei got character CDs out, are they gonna make one for Cal? Just curious (loves Sawashiro Miyuki).

But Drei is the third character focus. It would make better sense for Drei to have the CD imo.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

@orion

Spoiler for ep18:

The idea that finding Elen and having to keep safe himself drove all thought of finding Cal out of his mind becomes such a normal, banal, human betrayal. Which in this case is a good thing, since it adds to the tragedy.

18's been out for a while now. Why are you still using spoiler tags?

Actually, the thought of commiting suicide was next on the agenda. He was waiting for Elen to kill him at the ole stomping grounds. Claudia left/dying, Elen in the hands of SM (still jealous of SM aren't we Reiji?) and Cal...

Now, if he was a little more observant, he should have noticed she was wearing shorts that time and not the skirt. Honest mistakes can happen. Elen was more observant and Reiji didn't have Elen reminding him about monitoring his environment. (I think he got a little sloppy after Elen went missing. ) Cut the poor teen assassin some slack.

Oh yeah..

Originally Posted by Mizuno

This pic fits ... Reiji considers himself in SM's shadow even when he's the only one there (insecure male) and has not been true to himself yet imo.

[DragoZERO]

If Scythe does not die a horrific, painful and slow death I will be disappointed.

[SwiftStrike]

didn't expect ep 19 to be that much of a recap and only 5min of plot...

but still, it pretty good.

Spoiler for arggg:

scythe sure knows everything...I won't be surprised if he planned his own "death"

[orion]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

If Scythe does not die a horrific, painful and slow death I will be disappointed.

Nah, I want Elen to give him a swift death for all the crap that she's endured.

[X207]

i have a question as to drei identity
possible game spoiler

Spoiler:

i have this nagging feeling that cal will become drei seeing how scythe isolated her, am i correct?

[DeadlySoldier37]

I just saw episode 19, most of it was a recap, with some new added scenes and the last five minutes which totally pissed me off.

Well it seems like the real Mexican stand off starts next week, looking forward to it.

[Zwei]

I usually hate recaps but this one was great.

Spoiler:

I loved the ending especially the music when they were showing Reiji and Elen. Sycthe is a bastard as always and I have to agree Reiji didn't make much effort searching for Cal and gave up hope quickly. Next episode seems interesting anyway and a new girl to Reiji's harem I guess Mio.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by orion

Nah, I want Elen to give him a swift death for all the crap that she's endured.

He doesn't deserve a swift death. A slow and painful one is best.

[Nayrael]

He doesn't deserve a swift death. A slow and painful one is best.

This man is twisted. He might actually enjoj the fact that his killer has fallen so low to do this to him.

[Mei19]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

He doesn't deserve a swift death. A slow and painful one is best.

Did I hear Slow Painful Death? Why slow painful death? Naw that's still so gentle.

Keep him alive. Drill in nails in all of his fingers one by one, cut one third of his fingernails, stab his eyeballs, skin him, stitch his eyes shut, stitch his mouth shut, gouge his kneejoints, cripple him, destroy the object of his obsessions, torture him 24/7. Keep him half dead every minute of his life. Do whatever it takes to make him scream. Never let him die. Never let it end. Torture over and over. XD Ahhh now that's better. Ellen should ask Reiji to help her do that. It'll be their perfect past time.

[g1alpha]

I just finished watching ep 18 and aside from the fact that it was very rushed, why in the world did Ein (Elen) go back to Scythe if she was living for Reiji?

[Nayrael]

I think Scyhte fished her out of the sea.

Anyway, seems that I am either senile or Reiji is geting an anime-only friend in Japan (judging by Character section on the official site as I don't remember that guy at all).