2009-10-17, 17:43 | Link #1381 |
French Maid
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 31
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Well, I agree with you. Ange could simply have done DNA test to deduce whose blood where spread xD
But more seriously, that is what exactly I am saying. Come on, Ange is a Golden Witch that can kill a dozen of bodyguards by magic but she decide that shooting the bitch is more cool? xD And that doubt was instilled since the Rose Garden battle when Beato says that Kinzo was dead since the begining... the first scene of Ep1 isn't Kinzo talking with Nanjo about the family reunion?^^ Last edited by Antera Caramichael; 2009-10-17 at 18:07. |
2009-10-17, 17:43 | Link #1382 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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If the letter is basically what we see in Episode I, then there is a very real chance that it is entirely false and that the Meta-Games afterwards are the attempts to show us what really happened...via magic and clues. This runs counter to most theories that suggest that Episode I is what really happened, and the Meta Games are there to pick out the who, why, and how via complex magic clues that have become so complex that people are loosing their sanity.
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2009-10-17, 17:59 | Link #1383 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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+rep for you
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2009-10-17, 18:05 | Link #1384 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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The reason Ryukishi sets these stories in the 1980s is because there weren't DNA tests (or cellphones) back then. And, since I believe they did have DNA testing in 1998, I don't think it's possible to test blood that was spilled twelve years ago... could someone please confirm/deny? Quote:
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Episode 1 is still the only game without magic scenes or red text, making it a more reliable version of the truth than anything else. Unless you consider Natsuhi's delusions to be magic scenes, which they kind of are, in a way. |
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2009-10-17, 18:10 | Link #1385 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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It's possible to test remains years after the fact if they're properly preserved. Odds are by the time the police even found the scene, it was too late to save most evidence. If Maria's jaw was saved to make some kind of positive identification that would be one thing, but really it's unlikely any blood survived in a testable state.
Also, if the incident wasn't actually treated as a homicide they wouldn't have bothered to save any of the evidence anyway. There wasn't any doubt about everyone dying, and if things weren't seen as a crime, there wouldn't be much point in preserving it. If some blood HAD been preserved, Ange could've had it compared to her own and known pretty clearly whether the blood came from a family member or not by 1998, but that would've been no help as there were a half-dozen or so people who were supposed to be on the island who weren't Ushiromiyas. Plus, I seriously doubt they had any existing blood sample to compare Kanon and Shannon's DNA to, so even if you found some anomalous DNA, you can't really be sure it wasn't just Kanon's blood. Essentially, it would have been no help even if Ange had access to it. EDIT: Although it would've certainly been interesting to find out whether Battler's DNA was a close match to Ange's, eh? |
2009-10-17, 18:17 | Link #1386 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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We did see golden butterflies in EP1, though.
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2009-10-17, 18:19 | Link #1387 |
French Maid
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 31
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Well, comparison is not the problem here, all you need is hair from a brush, skin samples or saliva on spoon or anything else.
Apparamently, the island was left abandonned, or in the care of Eva, and apparamently she never returned there. So we don't know if the mansion was still sealed since the procedure wasn't conclued, or if Eva engaged people to clean it after the sampling of the experts. |
2009-10-17, 18:20 | Link #1388 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Hmmm....Ryukishi and his tricks....
Hgurashi's first arc was the most stand alone arc possible, as it has a very confined plot and all. However take it in with the rest of the series. It sets up what will happen for the rest of the question arcs...but doesn't setup the actual plot for the series. At that early stage, the aftermath...even the most critical murder of the plot, wasn't even hinted. Could Umineko be following this line of storytelling? The first arc sets up that there are many murders on this island and that no one survives. But is that the actual plot? Is that even what is really important in the plot? If what we get in Episode I is actually a recreation of the letter's account of what happened...it could be entirely false...especially if it was written before the events happened. It might have been an accounting of what was suppose to happen. As mentioned....Episode I has no Red Text. It could all be a lie...by Beatrice's rules.
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2009-10-17, 18:22 | Link #1389 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Episodes 1 and 5 have no magic scenes for any of the murders. (Kanon and butterflies is possible in the real world ) This makes episode 5 very similar to episode 1 since no murders are shown to be done with magic. The magic world scenes in episode 5 are just fancy visualizations of actual discussions that are taking place in my opinion. But red text came in later episodes that talked about the events of episode 1 so it had to have existed on some level.
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2009-10-17, 18:24 | Link #1390 |
French Maid
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 31
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Thanks used Can, I was doubting between this year and 1989^^.
And since the Ushiromyia Family was one of the most wealthiest of Japan, I think that DNA test could have been done for this case if Eva really wanted to. And even if it is not the case, i think that the procedure ask to sampling any things that can contain DNA am I wrong? So there would be nothing that contradict the fact that blood sample could have been kept, and Ange using it in 1998 to ask someone to do it, always if Eva didn't asked. |
2009-10-17, 18:31 | Link #1391 | |
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If things were disastrous enough to nearly destroy some or all of the bodies, it's not going to help much to do DNA tests. If the scene were clearly a murder and there were clearly a suspect, then you might save the DNA just to prove that certain people were on the island as part of your case for murder. But Eva apparently wasn't even charged, so whatever happened the police didn't even think she could have done it. You can argue it's because she paid them off, but isn't it equally likely they just found no evidence to charge her with anything? Remember, everything we see in 1998 is filtered through Ange, and she's already concluded in her mind that Eva is a murderer whether that's true or not. |
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2009-10-17, 18:31 | Link #1392 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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And hmm, I didn't know they had DNA testing in 1985... I need to educate myself more... in any case, they didn't have the forensic technology (or access to the advanced computers that make such forensic technology possible) we do today, which was kind of my point, even if I'm wrong about everything else. |
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2009-10-17, 18:36 | Link #1393 |
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Eva has no incentive to preserve anything. If she's guilty, she doesn't want anyone to know. If she's innocent, she has to assume the murderer is dead because she was the only survivor. After that, who cares? She knows who died. It won't change anything or help anyone.
EDIT: I'm also highly suspicious of whether the entire incident was considered a crime at any point at all anywhere but the tabloids and in Ange's mind. They just let Ange keep a stake and Maria's diary? That sort of thing would definitely be evidence. If the police actually suspected crime, they'd never have let a stake be handed over to the family as personal effects. |
2009-10-17, 18:38 | Link #1394 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
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She transformed into Virgilia, who was probably Kinzo's Beatrice. She asked Battler to feel her up. While it might have seemed a joke, it could be a clue. She's always scurrying around and going "Oh my god! Blood!" when she's the only one there. Being disguised as an old lady, she doesn't fall under as much suspicion. |
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2009-10-17, 18:49 | Link #1395 | ||
French Maid
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 31
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If you got two profiles of this, that's enough, you know that Krauss ans Rudolph were at least wounded and so targeted by the murderer, and like I said, you could sample for personnal effects of the victims (in their home, it should be full of it). And I highly doubt that there is only one giant pool of blood, exept maybe for the cousins in Ep1. I see it more like in Ep2 where we can see different spot of bloods. Quote:
But what if she really isn't precisely the culprit? I always thought that it was weird because she was precisely the perfect culprit with all the motives, since she is the only survivor. Don't you find it weird that she precisely was the only survivor?? If you were the culprit, you would have left some people alive, for example Battler could gave her an alibi since he was with her when Nanjo was killed, and thus it could have proven that there was someone else at this time. But she could also have paid the juges, but I got doubts, since it was highly gave publicity by the media, and so it would have been outrageous at the time. |
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2009-10-17, 18:58 | Link #1397 | |
French Maid
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 31
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Maria's diary would have invastegated, with search of fingerprints, copy out etc etc... After that, it can be sent back as "personnal effects" I think, since it doesn't have anything else to say, if there is precisely something suspicious on it, like other fingerprints that don't come from family members. But apparamently, the bottles were discovered a few years later no? So by the time, they was nothing suspicious by someone writing in the diary in order to make pleasure to a child... For the stakes, it is more suspicious. Where were they found? If they were taken out and washed, then they were no more that decorations... |
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2009-10-17, 19:01 | Link #1398 | |
French Maid
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 31
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Even with only that, I think that precisely it would lead people to the crime theory, plus the media plublicity. |
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2009-10-17, 19:04 | Link #1399 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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When we hear about Beatrice reviving and everyone being taken to Hell or the Golden Land, this refers to something happening to the bodies. This event is something that has the potential to kill people who are still living, and hides evidence. We've talked about natural disasters and things like that, but Ange couldn't blame Eva for an earthquake or a landslide. A fire might make sense as something that could happen due to the actions of a person or by accident, but I can't imagine how well that would work out after such a heavy rain. It's hard to imagine what it could be, but maybe there's some "event X" that would fit the bill... |
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2009-10-17, 19:05 | Link #1400 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Even if Eva wanted the money and title enough to kill for it... she wanted them for her immediate family as well as herself. Why would she kill her beloved George? Unless she actually does have multiple personalities (the existence of which are debatable anyway), it doesn't fit. What's also telling is that Ange didn't believe Eva was the culprit, at the end... and consider her behavior in The Witches' Tanabata, as well... poor Eva. And this is probably very, very central to why the murders are being committed in the first place. |
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