2010-01-18, 13:49 | Link #81 |
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No, to combine 2 elemental jutsus, you need a kekkei genkai, Haku could use ice because he used water and wind, same thin shodaime hokage with mokuton (water and earth). Different is the capability to use 2 or more elemental jutsus, like Kakashi or Sandaime Hokage.
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2010-01-18, 18:03 | Link #85 | |
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One thing is to use one, two or three elements, another thing is to mix two or more elements. To use GSnJ a ninja would need a Kekkei Genkai. When there is 2 ninjas, only needs one ninja using water and the other using wind. Kakuzu could mix elemental jutsus because he had a lot of "hearts" of differents affinities. Sandaime Hokage could use Earth and Fire but he never use a "lava release" (as Mizukage can... and she can do it because her Kekkei Genkai). Sasuke can use Fire and Lightning but never mix them.
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2010-01-18, 18:10 | Link #86 | |
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You obviously do not need to have a bloodline for 2 seperate individuals to combine elements (else, Yamato and Naruto could have never combined their attacks), you only need a bloodline (presumably) to combine 2 elements in one body. Combining 2 elements in one body can be used to create an entirely new element; combining 2 elements from 2 bodies just creates a combination attack. They are 2 completely different things. Once again, Naruto, with a Kage Bushin, can create combination attacks like Gufū Suika no Jutsu. That is all I said. Last edited by james0246; 2010-01-18 at 18:21. |
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2010-01-18, 20:27 | Link #87 | ||
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A KG is a copy/pasta reproduction of the original. A clon will not be able to combine 2 elements from 2 bodies, because they aren't 2 different things, a KB is the same thing than Naruto.
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2010-01-18, 21:34 | Link #88 |
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No shit. No one is disagreeing with this. Rather, if you would actually read my, and yaluckyboy's, post, you would realize that we are only talking about techniques that require 2 individual bodies (no matter what you may believe, a Kage Bushin is a separate body) to combine their elemental attacks to create a larger elemental attack (ala the constantly mentioned attack Naruto and Yamato used against Kakuzu). We are not talking about Kekkei Genkai techniques. We are talking about 2 seperate techniques that come together and create a new technique. Not a new element. Just a new technique. Go back to Chapter 337 to find out exactly what yaluckyboy and I are talking about...
Last edited by james0246; 2010-01-18 at 21:59. |
2010-01-18, 23:01 | Link #89 | |
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Naruto and Yamato are 2 different ninjas... Naruto and a KB are the same ninja, a KB counts as "a tool", they aren't a different ninja. Even in the filler ... it would be so much easy and eye-candy a KB using water element and the original naruto using wind to use the trick. But they use Gamatatsu and Naruto.
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2010-01-18, 23:43 | Link #90 | |
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If Naruto was to learn how to use water techniques, why would he suddenly not be able to use them with his shadow copies? There isn't any other ninja who uses copies the same way Naruto does, so there isn't any reason to believe that his copies would suddenly gimp themselves of their techniques just because the primary decides "oh hey guys, only wind techniques this fight". The 3rd and Kakashi both used varied elemental techniques just fine, but neither could use copies the same way Naruto did due to stamina concerns. There isn't anything to suggest that the 3rd couldn't have used a copy to help make his earth dragon fire technique instead of just himself in his battle against Oro. |
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2010-01-18, 23:59 | Link #91 | ||
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Who cares if no one else has ever done this before. No one had ever used Kage Bushins to circumvent the use of Toads in Senjutsu training, but that was still done, right? Just cause it hasn't been shown to be done before does not mean it cannot be done, and since it doesn't break any of the known rules, it is well within the realm of speculation. I really do not know how to simplify this any further for you...Naruto creates a Kage Bushin and instructs it to use Elemental Attack Water. While the Kage Bushin is performing the attack, Naruto can Perform Elemental Attack Wind. They can then be combined together to create a combination attack, or they can be used separately. The fact that the Kage Bushin is a clone of Naruto has absolutely no bearing on the fact that the 2 attacks could potentially be combined. |
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2010-01-19, 00:11 | Link #92 | |
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2010-01-19, 08:53 | Link #93 |
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Elemental attacks need a lot of chakra and time (Hand seals), if Naruto was to bother doing a combo with his KB associates, any enemy would just kawarimi away. Besides earth, I don't see any other elements being usable with stealth, unless someone (say, Kakashi) could dig a tunnel and lead a fire dragon through it to make a fire pillar rise from a...classic pit trap with leaves and sticks on top?
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2010-01-19, 10:04 | Link #94 | |
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Jiraiya + Gamabunta -> Toad Oil Flame Bullet Sarutobi Earth Style and Fire Style Jutsu (can't remember the name) Kakuzu Fire Mask + Wind Mask -> Powerful Fire Jutsu (still can't remember the name) Naruto + Yamato -> Gufu Suika The idea that two Shadow Clones from the same person can not use two seperate Elements is just ridiculous. The only thing that supports this idea is that Naruto says that using Clones for different things is hard to focus on. But even this should still allow him to use two Elements at the same time.
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2010-01-19, 10:58 | Link #95 | |||
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One Naruto clon isn't a different Naruto, it's the same Naruto, with the same abilities, so, if Naruto could manage water jutsus besides wind jutsus, the only way to using (and i'm not talking about creat ice) both at the same time is a Kekkei Genkai. Please go to read ch 316: Quote:
So... if Naruto's KB is a clon, how could manipulate AND CONTROL 2 elemental jutsus without a Kekkei Genkai. I'm based in the info of ch316.
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2010-01-19, 12:50 | Link #96 | |
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Naruto clone is supposed to be different than original, Naruto often argues with his clones or discuss tactics with them. Same about Fuuton: Rasenshuriken, original Naruto gives chakra, one clone spins, and second injects wind control. Now let's create third clone, who does some water jutsu that injects water into the whirlwind created by rasengan - yay, we have water-wind typhoon. As we saw on multiple occasions, ANY limit can be surpassed with sufficient number of clones |
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2010-01-19, 14:27 | Link #97 |
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For the millionth time, I am not saying he is using the two together. I am saying he is using the reaction between the two when they collide. Like I said earlier, it's like combining a can of gas and a match; they are not combined into the same thing, they just create a different effect when you mix there individual effects.
If you don't understand it when I have simplified it to this point, it will be useless to keep going until you come to your senses and wise up. Not to be rude or anything, but you just can't see what's right in front of you, sorry.
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2010-01-19, 16:19 | Link #98 | |
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2010-01-19, 18:25 | Link #99 | |
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When you say "using the two together", you forgot the principle of the use of chakra: you need to manipulate and CONTROL that. Yamato showed it perfectly: one hand with water, one hand with earth... but... when you try to use them together, that's a different history. When you gave the gas and match example, you are right, but, that works only when a ninja bring the gas and another put the match. Naruto CAN'T bring both together, because he CAN'T manipulate and control them. In order to do it, he would need a Kekkei Genkai. A KB is a clon, not a different ninja. We have 2 PoV... i respect yours, but i think your are mistaken the principles of chakra use and the principles of a KB, but, perhaps im the wrong one here. To me the key point here is manipulate and control... Naruto can't control 2 elements only with KB, in FRS he just control and manipulate one element, to do it with 2 elements, he needs a Kekkei Genkai. About affinities... ninjas can have 2 or more, the problem is using them together, that's only for ninjas with kekkei genkai.
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2010-01-19, 19:43 | Link #100 |
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Well that pretty much ends discussion It all depends on Naruto getting second affinity at all - Kishi may just decide to make his wind more powerful, or give another powerup, like controlling Kyuubi a'la Killerbee.
Maybe Naruto should let one clone be controlled by that "tamed" Kyuubi, that way using 2 elements simultaneously would be possible |
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