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Chaos2Frozen · 2012-04-11, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Yunoha and Amata, the two closest to her, saw though and those 2 would probably be hit the worst by this. Yunoha doesn't know the flower petal was from Mikage. She's more likely to blame Kagura for the death of Jin. And Mikono just protected him.

But neither two seem to be the type to spread this kind of things around.

Actually Im pretty sure Yunoha knows its from Mykage on the account that he was choking her and that Jin's head wound appeared after that...

Zuul · 2012-04-11, 03:45

I really did like her this episode.

As A Kagurafag, I was happy she could azt least empathize a bit with the poor dog and beg for his life, even knowing it puts her at odds with the rest of the academy.

Krytonis · 2012-04-11, 03:49

I don't sound like one of those guys, but if I were Amata in his place when Mikono told him to stop shooting, I would be really angry and confused. I would have probably left the school and never came back. I was quite frustrated when Mikono did that. After all the damage Amata took, Mikono still feels nice to Kagura..

kuromitsu · 2012-04-11, 04:40

Telling him not to shoot is one thing, what I'm wondering about is that she said "forgive him." That's so totally wtf that it either has a deeper meaning or they're trying to make Mikono look bad.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-04-11, 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koominator

I don't sound like one of those guys, but if I were Amata in his place when Mikono told him to stop shooting, I would be really angry and confused. I would have probably left the school and never came back. I was quite frustrated when Mikono did that. After all the damage Amata took, Mikono still feels nice to Kagura..

So in other words, you would overreact and stomp out of the only group of people that you've ever bonded with, from the only place that would ever accept you for your abilities without hearing an explanation first from the one girl that you've opened your heart to?

Anger and confusion is normal, but everything else afterwards sounds like a kid on a tantrum.

Krytonis · 2012-04-11, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

So in other words, you would overreact and stomp out of the only group of people that you've ever bonded with, from the only place that would ever accept you for your abilities without hearing an explanation first from the one girl that you've opened your heart to?

Anger and confusion is normal, but everything else afterwards sounds like a kid on a tantrum.

That's why I said I didn't want to sound like one of those guys didn't I? I wouldn't quite say it is a kid in a tantrum, since I DO have my reasons. You too would be mad if one person kidnapped the one you loved and did horrible things to other friends previously. Then the person you loved says to forgive him? I don't know about you, but I WOULD feel pretty angry

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-04-11, 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koominator

That's why I said I didn't want to sound like one of those guys didn't I? I wouldn't quite say it is a kid in a tantrum, since I DO have my reasons. You too would be mad if one person kidnapped the one you loved and did horrible things to other friends previously. Then the person you loved says to forgive him? I don't know about you, but I WOULD feel pretty angry

Angry? Yes. But my grip is with what you've said after that.

You can get angry, you can refuse to talk for awhile, give each other cold shoulders etc... But quit and leave school and never come back? That is childish. An adult would suck it up and face each other to hear the reason from the other side.

Everybody's rough all over, making the situation worse by taking drastic and impulsive actions won't solve anything.

Krytonis · 2012-04-11, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You can get angry, you can refuse to talk for awhile, give each other cold shoulders etc... But quit and leave school and never come back? That is childish. An adult would suck it up and face each other to hear the reason from the other side.

AH I see your point.

Sorry about that. I do agree on what you said about facing each other to see their views. *bows his head down*

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-04-11, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koominator

AH I see your point.

Sorry about that. I do agree on what you said about facing each other to see their views. *bows his head down*

It fine, I admit I might have come off abit harsh myself.

*bows his head down in return*

Dynzel · 2012-04-11, 13:04

Another way to look at the "forgive him" bit could be for kidnapping her. The only reason everyone's even on the defensive is because he's (a) from Altair, the side that kidnaps women and (b) he kidnapped her (mostly this, I'd think).

Admittedly I was blinded by confusion when I first saw this but it makes some sort of sense if you try to look at it that way?

kuromitsu · 2012-04-11, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynzel

Another way to look at the "forgive him" bit could be for kidnapping her. The only reason everyone's even on the defensive is because he's (a) from Altair, the side that kidnaps women and (b) he kidnapped her (mostly this, I'd think).

Er, 1) he's from Altair, b) this is not the first time he's attacked them, c) last time he killed 9 people (and presumably injured at least as many), d) also he almost killed Amata, e) this time he kidnapped Mikono, f) and he got closer to killing Amata.

Forgive him? Just because Mikono discovered that he can be all d'aww and dere? What?

It's so incredibly stupid given the situation that either there's something more to it or the writers are trying to show Mikono in a bad light.

miketyson · 2012-04-11, 14:36

It may be specific to Amata (and Mikono may not know this yet). Is there a reason the wings would be mad about something?

kuromitsu · 2012-04-11, 14:57

You mean from the previous series? Not that I know of...

Spoiler for Genesis:

I'd like to think that this "forgive him" is similar to "I must apologize to him" in ep 6, coming from her unconscious... that, or Mikono suddenly remembered something that we don't know yet. (The other option would just make me angry at the writers...)

miketyson · 2012-04-11, 16:05

The "forgive" thing came up in episode 6, too (it's part of her unconscious mumbling there, too), and I think every time she's specifically touched on that Amata's been around (could be coincidence, could not be). One facepalm-inducing idea:

Spoiler for spoiler?:

...I hope that's not it.

Arya · 2012-04-12, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

You mean from the previous series? Not that I know of...

Spoiler for Genesis:

Spoiler for Apollonius:

Surely the forgiveness could be related to something less deep and more real as Kagura being a creature puppet controlled by Mykage, so his sins are to be addressed to Mykage.
As IRL when someone takes a Pit Bull Terrier and then this dog assaults someone. It's the owner at fault here, not the dog. Mikono could be into some legal fetishism

kuromitsu · 2012-04-12, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya

Spoiler for Apollonius:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya

Surely the forgiveness could be related to something less deep and more real as Kagura being a creature puppet controlled by Mykage, so his sins are to be addressed to Mykage.

But Mikono doesn't know about Mykage let alone his relationship with Kagura. All she's learned so far that he's been stalking her for a long time, he's saying things in reverse, and that he says he's Apollon and she's Sylphie (...wait, shouldn't that have been in reverse, too?

). If we're supposed to believe that after everything Mikono not only defends Kagura but actually wants people to forgive him based on this then the only explanation is that the writers want to make her look bad. :/ (Or she's found religion and next time she'll ask Amata to turn the other cheek...

)

(Also, unless his real form is the demonwolf, Kagura is not a dog. He may be dumb but so far it appears he's capable of thinking for himself. He may not know that Mykage is using him but he's hardly innocent. )

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-04-12, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But Mikono doesn't know about Mykage let alone his relationship with Kagura. All she's learned so far that he's been stalking her for a long time, he's saying things in reverse, and that he says he's Apollon and she's Sylphie (...wait, shouldn't that have been in reverse, too?

). If we're supposed to believe that after everything Mikono not only defends Kagura but actually wants people to forgive him based on this then the only explanation is that the writers want to make her look bad. :/ (Or she's found religion and next time she'll ask Amata to turn the other cheek...

)

(Also, unless his real form is the demonwolf, Kagura is not a dog. He may be dumb but so far it appears he's capable of thinking for himself. He may not know that Mykage is using him but he's hardly innocent. )

I still maintain my stance that she was only referring to the kidnapping part as she had no idea what happened to Malloy and Sanzaka, nor did she see Amata take that beating. I'm not going to fiercely debate this point but it's the only thing that would make sense given that situation they were in.

And given who the writers are, I get the feeling their motives was to stir shit up with the shippers rather than anything profound... Truly this is the worst combination one could ask for =_=;

kuromitsu · 2012-04-12, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I still maintain my stance that she was only referring to the kidnapping part as she had no idea what happened to Malloy and Sanzaka, nor did she see Amata take that beating. I'm not going to fiercely debate this point but it's the only thing that would make sense given that situation they were in.

Mikono also knows that Kagura is responsible for those deaths in ep 13 (except for Jin's). And given the attention given to the aftermath of the attack and the deaths and whatnot I don't think we're supposed to just wave them away. And while she didn't see Amata taking the beating, I can't imagine Zessica not filling her in about Amata risking his life to lure Kagura away as they were flying to where Amata and Kagura (and Cayenne) were. (She also saw Kagura almost kill Amata when he reversed his flight power in that tower-thing.)

Again, if she said "don't kill him" or something along those lines I wouldn't be here wondering, but this "forgive him" just doesn't make sense to me.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-04-12, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Mikono also knows that Kagura is responsible for those deaths in ep 13 (except for Jin's). And given the attention given to the aftermath of the attack and the deaths and whatnot I don't think we're supposed to just wave them away. And while she didn't see Amata taking the beating, I can't imagine Zessica not filling her in about Amata risking his life to lure Kagura away as they were flying to where Amata and Kagura (and Cayenne) were. (She also saw Kagura almost kill Amata when he reversed his flight power in that tower-thing.)

Like I've said, her words were probably referring to the situation at present, given the intensive of the situation they were in I don't think she had included every little thing that Kagura did. I'm not saying it was forgiven or forgotten, just not included in the heat of the moment.

Secondly, I was under the impression that she didn't board the helicopter and made it on foot to where the guys were fighting by herself. After all it doesn't make sense for them to bring her there in the first place if they had rescue her already

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Again, if she said "don't kill him" or something along those lines I wouldn't be here wondering, but this "forgive him" just doesn't make sense to me.

Fair enough.

Arya · 2012-04-12, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Spoiler for Apollonius:

But Mikono doesn't know about Mykage let alone his relationship with Kagura. All she's learned so far that he's been stalking her for a long time, he's saying things in reverse, and that he says he's Apollon and she's Sylphie (...wait, shouldn't that have been in reverse, too?

). If we're supposed to believe that after everything Mikono not only defends Kagura but actually wants people to forgive him based on this then the only explanation is that the writers want to make her look bad. :/ (Or she's found religion and next time she'll ask Amata to turn the other cheek...

)

(Also, unless his real form is the demonwolf, Kagura is not a dog. He may be dumb but so far it appears he's capable of thinking for himself. He may not know that Mykage is using him but he's hardly innocent. )

In regard of Kagura being a dog, it was not what I meant, my analogy was between a puppet and a dog, since Kagura could be under the control of Mykage so his actions were forced by him. I'm not demoting him to a dog, yet (

) But I understand that my analogy could fit the Kagura / dog pairing.

mmm, about the rest, you are right, I was trying to find a reason inside the boundaries of their reality. Instead of the more plausible reason based on something related on the reincarnations etc etc.
What I got anyways is that Mikono's words were meant for Amata and Amata alone, not for everybody. Even because so far he should be the only one whom she has enough intimacy with, to ask something like that.

On the other hand, Amata killing intent was very feeble, he didn't want to kill him in the first place, he simply knew he had to, Ceyenne told him, for the dead mates, for Mikono and last but not the least, for himself. So Mikono's words make even less sense if compared on Amata's feeling at the moment. On Amata in every moment, because so far I've never seen him raging.
So definitely her words must imply something more than the simply device of making her look bad for plot sake

2012-04-11, 03:49	Link #23
Krytonis Koomi-kun~ Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: In the distortion of space and time..	I don't sound like one of those guys, but if I were Amata in his place when Mikono told him to stop shooting, I would be really angry and confused. I would have probably left the school and never came back. I was quite frustrated when Mikono did that. After all the damage Amata took, Mikono still feels nice to Kagura.. __________________

2012-04-11, 14:57	Link #33
kuromitsu Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004	You mean from the previous series? Not that I know of... Spoiler for Genesis: I mean, Wings of the Sun = Mechanical Angel = Aquarion, so if Amata is in fact the Wings of the Sun then he is Aquarion in a weird way (which would explain the wings and the shota!Amata & Aquarion thing, if not much else). And Aquarion wasn't any more sentient than it is in Evol, except for Apollonius randomly showing up in it. I'd like to think that this "forgive him" is similar to "I must apologize to him" in ep 6, coming from her unconscious... that, or Mikono suddenly remembered something that we don't know yet. (The other option would just make me angry at the writers...)

2012-04-11, 16:05	Link #34
miketyson Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	The "forgive" thing came up in episode 6, too (it's part of her unconscious mumbling there, too), and I think every time she's specifically touched on that Amata's been around (could be coincidence, could not be). One facepalm-inducing idea: Spoiler for spoiler?: consider how Kagura might interpret an apology from Mikono... ...I hope that's not it. Last edited by miketyson; 2012-04-11 at 16:05. Reason: fixed spoiler tag

2012-04-11, 03:45	Link #22
Zuul Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012	I really did like her this episode. As A Kagurafag, I was happy she could azt least empathize a bit with the poor dog and beg for his life, even knowing it puts her at odds with the rest of the academy.

2012-04-11, 04:40	Link #24
kuromitsu Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004	Telling him not to shoot is one thing, what I'm wondering about is that she said "forgive him." That's so totally wtf that it either has a deeper meaning or they're trying to make Mikono look bad.

2012-04-11, 13:04	Link #30
Dynzel (　´_ゝ`)ﾌｰﾝ Join Date: Apr 2007	Another way to look at the "forgive him" bit could be for kidnapping her. The only reason everyone's even on the defensive is because he's (a) from Altair, the side that kidnaps women and (b) he kidnapped her (mostly this, I'd think). Admittedly I was blinded by confusion when I first saw this but it makes some sort of sense if you try to look at it that way?

2012-04-11, 14:36	Link #32
miketyson Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	It may be specific to Amata (and Mikono may not know this yet). Is there a reason the wings would be mad about something?