2013-03-16, 01:30
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Link #12822 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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That would be pretty stupid, because Zen explicitly said "it's time for me to change" and it's clear this is character development.
Anyway, as I've said frequently, there are no constants with regards to this series. Every aspect of Medaka (her box, her motivation, her being the strongest or being unable to understand other humans) has been deconstructed enough, now it is finally time to deconstruct Zenkichi's devotion to her. Let's put an end to the sickeningly cliche shounen romance between them. The infantile interdependency of Medaka and Zenkichi's relationship has been since the start one of the very worst aspects of their characters. (You guys should realize this is only a start, right? Zen was long ago put on this path when Ajimu helped him self-realize and get over his obsession with "protecting" Medaka, this chapter does not actually represent a major development for him. However, a major aspect of Medaka's character which she has never addressed or been pushed to develop away from is her emotional dependency on Zen. This is one of the major flaws of her character -- her inability to stand up to the loneliness of the universe, the challenge of communicating with other humans, by herself. This chapter and this development is a trigger for that. What I'm saying is that what we will be getting is an arc about Medaka getting over Zen. (Though it might not be an entire arc, Nishio could probably address all the development in a single chapter if he wanted to.)) Last edited by Sol Falling; 2013-03-16 at 03:24. |
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2013-03-16, 03:12
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Link #12823 |
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minority spirit(?)
 Fansubber
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyakka Ryoran
Age: 33
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Does this one work?
Spoiler for pic:
Anyways if you'll ask me I haven't seen any signs of Zen stopping to love Medaka. Yes, he wants to change but entirely for her sake/to be with her as an equal. Last edited by Iby; 2013-03-16 at 08:28. |
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2013-03-16, 12:59
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Link #12825 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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Quote:
Just - no. Sorry, that's not what happened in the manga. Him rejecting her right now has nothing to do with bettering himself for her, much less for her sake. He explicitly states that he's no longer a guy who loves Medaka to the point that just being besides her will satisfy him, hence why he's changing, to living his own life - which he's having fun in, by the way - from simply being besides her. Just being with her dosen't make the cut for him anymore. Plain and simple. So he's not going to abandon his life for that, which resulted in that rejection. Is it a sign that their love isn't as important to him as it used to be? Yeah. Dosen't mean he stopped loving her, just that his love for her dosen't take precedence over his own life anymore. Sign of, you know, development. Maturity. Please, let's not get that wrong.
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2013-03-16, 13:24
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Link #12827 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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Thank you for proving my point.
Where, pray tell, does it say that he's changing himself for her sake, or to be with her in this chapter? That's right. It dosen't. Because he's changing himself so he can be a person who isn't so dependant on his love, like Hanten. Why? Because he's having fun living his current life. In-fact, it explicitly says he's changing himself, from someone like Hanten, who would've accepted the request because all that he wanted was to be with her, to someone who dosen't - someone who isn't satisfied anymore by just being with Medaka, and wants to live his own life instead of sacrificing what he wants to do. Like it or not, his character just grew out of his ridiculous and overblown dependency on Medaka's love. This lack of nuance is seriously ridiculous. It's as if people think everything Zenkichi does is for love, when that's a disservice to his character in this chapter. Sorry for being so blunt, but that's just the way it is, it's an extremely myopic view. Since when Sol and I agree on something, that's gotta be right. 
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2013-03-16, 13:37
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Link #12828 |
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Riding the Ange Express
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
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I really dig the fact that Zen is trying to become his own man and walk down his own path. Medaka has changed now it's his turn to change and better himself. Him rejecting Medaka did hurt, just look at his face to see that. He still loves her but he needs to do his own thing. For now at least.
Now the question is how long will it stick? I really wanna see what Nisio does with Nienami. Especially since he's teasing that she's Ajimu or has some connection to her.
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2013-03-16, 13:45
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Link #12830 | ||
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Quote:
Her love for Zenkichi, though very sporadically noticeable, is one of the only elements of her characterization that actually relates her to the humanistic nature of the world. If she were to unrealistically shed that particular inclinnation, she'd only be more ridiculously alienated from actual depth. Quote:
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2013-03-16, 13:49
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Link #12833 |
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minority spirit(?)
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyakka Ryoran
Age: 33
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Well I wasn't proving your opinion. You said that he didn't decide it because of Medaka but what I'm pointing out that he decided to do this because Medaka did that first, so he's just following her example. That's how I'm seeing it at least.
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2013-03-16, 13:49
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Link #12834 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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That's what I think is important that we - all of us - get straight. I consider it more mature because he's no longer just satisified simply being with Medaka, and in all ways, he is starting to value his own life, what he wants to do, more than her love. One could consider that a diminish of the importance of her love for him, being that before it was the opposite, and that's what I meant. It's a good thing, it's maturity and development. Of course, it dosen't mean he dosen't love her, more than likely still does. They'll probably still end up toguether, as much as I, personally, dislike the idea. Quote:
You said that his motivation for changing is because he wants to be better for Medaka's sake/to be by her side. That's what was erroneous about you said. Because that's not his motivation, as me and Zigs have just discussed. His motivation for changing is to live his own life and follow his own path, currently. It's got nothing to do with love or even both of them as a couple. It's about Zenkichi stopping being depedant and move on with his life. Medaka changed from someone who would self-sacrifice what she wanted to do for what she thought she had to. Likewise, Zenkichi thinks it's time he changed from an aspect similar to that. Which means growing out of his need for Medaka's love, like he said. Dosen't mean he's eliminated it - It's just no longer what satisfies his soul and being beyond everyone and everything else in his life combined.
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Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2013-03-16 at 14:23. |
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2013-03-16, 13:52
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Link #12835 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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It sux to be Medaka >>> dump twice ( from her point of view ).
Quote:
Spoiler for Excalibur:
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2013-03-16, 14:01
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Link #12837 |
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minority spirit(?)
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyakka Ryoran
Age: 33
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Though after rereading the last pages I believe that talking about how "Medaka-chan is running forward" and that "I need to do something too" was just an example. Still I can't see him stopping to love her. It's just about a time he has left working at a student council. Once it's over they'll marry of course. That Black-something arc wasn't there for nothing.
So yeah, I guess people can continue dreaming about other pairings and such 
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2013-03-16, 14:03
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Link #12838 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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I was never saying that he's stopped loving her, or that he will(even though I want him to).
I'm just pointing out that his life, what he wants to do at the moment, now takes precedence over his need for her love, when it used to be the other way around. That's his change. And that's a huge development for him. He's matured deeply ever since "The day the moon dissapeared", since now, he's sure that Medaka has recovered. Quote:
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Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2013-03-16 at 14:33. |
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2013-03-16, 14:54
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Link #12839 | |||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Quote:
Quote:
There are no actual Medaka fans who like her solely for her rare moments of showing dependency on Zen. Not only would they be missing out on the majority of her meaningful characterization, but the idea of reducing a human to that in the very first place is utterly sickening. Quote:
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2013-03-16, 15:29
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Link #12840 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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You are not correct (in my opinion) are interpreting the word Zen.
He spoke - "like Hanten-san". Who is Hanten Shiranui? For Ajimu. Maybe it's her boyfriend? Maybe this is her fiance? No, no, no. I think after this arc Zen x Medaka relationship will become stronger. In general, because Medaka - is the main character. She has a small "man's" character. And Zen now a little tsundere. |
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| action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council |
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Since he badly wants ZenxMedaka relationship to end so that his Kumagawa will have a shot to Medaka. 
