Chess board inversion is essentially switching viewpoints. You look at the situation from the perspective of your opponent, it's turning-over the chessboard, looking at the game with your opponent's viewpoints, from there you can analyze a situation and predict your enemies' movement. There's many flaws to it though, but it can be very useful when used inconjunction with other methods.
Sarafilipa mentioned the OP alone, and it is pretty much the same as Rayneing and I said.
Actually, I would have hard time to see another OP for the game, except perhaps the "new" OP from the anime theme for the answer arcs.
It might be amusing if history repeats itself as in Higurashi...To solve the problem the witches have to get involved directly. The amusing would be if Bern has to go in again as a ten year old girl posing as some distant relative like Hanyuu did. And to pull it off she has to act like Rika....down to the "niipah" and "mii".
Lambdadelta would be interesting to see as well...if she also had to go in as a young girl rather than in her "potential" adult form. But then she might just be some kind of wild card to begin with.
And this may be totally and completely wrong (likely so, since I've not played these games).
You are mistaking things here.
The OP2 is not the OP for episode 2. it is an alternate OP that you can watch in the Music Box, by clicking on the version B.
In game, all the opening used was the same one, the first one (version A).
You are mistaking things here.
The OP2 is not the OP for episode 2. it is an alternate OP that you can watch in the Music Box, by clicking on the version B.
In game, all the opening used was the same one, the first one (version A).
Thanks for clarifying this. Since I only played the first episode and because I saw two OP in the movie folder, I came to the conclusion that the second one was the OP for Turn of the Golden Witch.
Ahm, I get it now. I thought that the second video belonged to Ep2, which was quite odd because I'm halfway through EP2 and didn't see any video after the prologue.
After finishing EP 03, here are my thoughts about the situation (part 1). It's really long and pretty much a in-depth summary as I'm breaking down each part of the story, bullet pointing facts learned and quote exact text for proof/future reference. I'm posting the exact wording as I believe translating them will loose any hidden leaning or word play that might be used. I may have repeated some stuff mentioned in this thread (again I hadn't had the chance to read through all of it yet), if so I apologize in advance.
Spoiler:
Episode 3
Banquet of the Golden Witch
This chapter pretty much confirms my main suspicion I had since EP 02. Before reading, excuse my poor grammar/English m(_ _)m
As for each section title, I got it from the game (you see it when you replay the game). I tried placing these notes in their correct section, but since I took these notes during my first read they may be off. As how I took these notes, I took many snap shots during play. I think I ended up with a bit more than 3000 pictures (汗
Spoiler for First, what I'm basing my thoughts on / copy&paste from EP 02:
1. I do not believe Beatrice "exists."
2. Beatrice is not a person or at least a single person or a group of people.
She is a personification of a governing rule in the game.
I have a hunch that people claim to say they saw “Beatrice” for their own reasons, not to push a goal for a single purpose. It’s a convenient name to place blame for something. So the “Beatrice” that the characters claim they saw or talk to may or may not be the same person. Since each character can give a bullshit description of Beatrice due to the picture and the lore that surrounds her, the person the actually saw (if they even saw someone to begin with) doesn’t have to look like her as long as all the people involved agree that they all saw Beatrice. This is seems to be the underlining rule of the game. Beatrice exists because the characters agree she “exits.” The characters hide their lies under the cover of the name Beatrice and while all these lies share the same name, their intent and purpose are not, thus creating this imaginary persona. That is why “Beatrice” is unpredictable, carefree, and tries to overdo/exaggerate what happens.
3. Since Beatrice does not exits, every time Beatrice is physically in the story (aside Battler's sideline conversations with Beatrice and the tea parties), there is a lie being told. This includes her butterfly form.
4. Battler did his best to prove that no one in the family or the servants could be that inhuman, however, when he had to believe otherwise he gave in to the witch to escape that reality. This strengthens my belief that there are inhuman person(s) within the family/servants.
5. I do not believe in any magic in the story, but I will believe in the following: the picks, the red text, and the riddle. I believe the picks tell the truth to why the people are killed and the order they are killed but not who they killed as the riddle do not specify this info. They are symbolic and if one of these is false then the picks loose their meaning. The red text and the riddle, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to Beatrice since if any of these are used falsely, it kind of ruins the entire “gaming” aspect and their significance.
6. The 19th person. I won’t rule out the plausibility but, unless I can rule out the other 18 people on the island for that incident, I will not seriously consider this mysterious person.
Spoiler for Prolog:
Part 00A – Beatrice’s childhood
Confirmed: there is more than one Beatrice, and Beatrice is a name/title that is passed along. From this point on I will refer to the Meta-Beatrice who is opposing Battler as Beato.
Spoiler:
I will also refer to the “Beatrice” in the forest manor (九羽鳥庵) as Rosa’s Beatrice even though Beato claims Rosa’s Beatrice is her past self.
Confirmed: There is a black cat on the island. Who brought this animal? There should be no pets… At the very least this cat is not Beatrice’s.
↑ Thinking about it again, if the cat was “Valkyria Beatrice’s magic” then the fact that there was cat itself could be a lie as there are no pets on the island. I strongly believe there is no “magic.” The Valkyria Beatrice is most likely a servant on the island and possibly lied to cover up for the mistress.
Part 00B – Meta World / Battler’s revival
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belphegor & Asmodeus
六軒島に存在する全ての扉は鍵が通り抜けられる隙間などない
Spoiler for 少女時代:
Part 01 A - On the boat on its way to the island (10/04/86 – Time: ??:?? AM)
Confirmed: Hideyoshi and Rudolf smoke. Eva dislikes smoking.
Hideyoshi has a lighter and Rudolf has a Zippo lighter.
Hideyoshi has been smoking since after the war before he met with Eva.
Re-confirmed/Motive: The parents on the boat plan to take money from Krauss.
Confirmed: Eva and Krauss were on bad terms since their childhood.
Eva hated the fact she was born a girl. She wanted to be a boy to inherit the fortune, earn Kinzo respect and to be superior then Krauss.
Kinzo discriminates women. Women must support their husband and have no need for higher education.
Part 01 B – Eva’s past/dream (??/??/??)
Eva wanted to go to college but Kinzo refuses to support that decision.
Kinzo hates the fact the Eva isn’t lady-like and all she does is mimic what Krauss is supposed to do. Kinzo is also disappointed in Krauss.
Re-confirmed – Eva knows some form of martial arts.
Confirmed – What fuels Eva to succeed is anger.
Arrived at the island – 10:30 AM from the cut scene.
Spoiler for 妾の準備はすでに万端よ:
Part 02 A – At the beach
Re-confirmed – Battler has been away for 6 years.
Shannon has a good memory. Shannon was also most likely Battler’s first love.
Re-confirmed – George and Shannon have been secretly going out for at least 1 year and Eva will most likely does not approve. Jessica has a crush on Kanon and confessed her love for him, but Kanon did not accept.
Part 02 B – Rose Garden
Re-occurring event – The typhoon comes and Maria goes looking for her rose. She isn’t able to find it. “Beatrice” appears before her with an umbrella. “Beatrice” tells Maria that her rose blew away in the wind, so “Beatrice” revives the flower marking it in gold, then “Beatrice” chooses Maria to be her messenger to deliver the letter to the family.
Thoughts: Going by this, there is a possibly Maria didn’t meet with anyone. This “Beatrice” could be Maria’s imagination. It was mention before that the family members left notes, treats and other goodies around for Maria similar to Santa Claus’s gifts/Easter Hunt. If someone prior told Maria only those who believe in magic can see Beatrice then this “Beatrice” may just be her imaginary friend which she associates with these hidden gifts. Everyone knew the typhoon was coming. So someone may have left an open umbrella out in the garden with a note saying it was from “Beatrice” and telling Maria the fate of her rose and a new rose for her was marked in gold. Either with the umbrella or the rose, “Beatrice” left the letter for the family with a note to Maria to deliver it. This way anyone could have been this “Beatrice” while maintaining their alibi.
Whether Maria met with a person or not, the alibi for each person in the story remains the same in the previous 2 episodes for this event. Question remains whether Maria met with Kanon as she did in EP 02. Another question I have is, is it George again who points out the rose which draws Maria’s attention as in the first two episodes?
Part 02 C – The ring
Confirmed – Kinzo threw his ring out this episode just like in EP 01. Most likely he did the same in EP 02 (unconfirmed). In EP 01, the only people who knew the ring was thrown out were: Kinzo, Genji, and Kanon.
Another new character is introduced, ロノウェ (Ronove), Beatrice’s head butler and gives her the ring. Ronove is the 27th of the 72 demons in King Solomon’s legend (Japanese Wiki link).
Thoughts: Why introduce this character now? Was he in the previous episodes?
Genji’s last name is 呂ノ上 which is read as ろのうえ …
Who is this “Beatrice” and who is this Ronove?
Alibis: (From EP 02)
Kinzo was in his room with Nanjo.
Battler, George, Jessica and Shannon were together…
Gohda had to do dinner preparations. He most likely will not have a chance to give them the letters.
Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Kyrie were talking. But we know that Natsuhi and Kyrie left at one point.
Genji, Kanon, and Kumasawa whereabouts are unknown, but Kanon is unlikely for reason given in my previous post.
Also going by something mention later in this episode there isn’t a 19th person.
So by process of elimination: Genji is Ronove (a little too obvious) as he and Kanon were the only one who can locate the ring. However, just like “Beatrice,” Ronove could be a variable name for a group of people. But there is little doubt (at least in my mind) that this Ronove is Genji.
That leaves this “Beatrice” as either Natsuhi, Kyrie, or Kumasawa.
As this “Beatrice” has the wax seal ring she has to be the same “Beatrice” who Maria received letters from. From this point on I will refer this “Beatrice” as Rose Garden Beatrice.
Part 02 D – Dinner Hall (10/04/86 07:30 PM)
Maria announces the letter. Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Rosa go to Kinzo’s study to confirm the letter. Kyrie, Battler, George, Jessica, Maria and Nanjo stay in the dinning hall waiting for Gohda’s dessert. This event occurred ~ 7:30 PM (according to the cut scene).
Spoiler for 魔女の挑戦状:
Part 03 A – Guesthouse (10/04/86 08:00 PM)
The adults seeming did not receive any verbal confirmation about the letter, but they took Kinzo’s silence as a “yes. “ Maria is then surrounded by the adults who questioned her about “Beatrice” until she cried. At that point, the adults ordered the children to take Maria to the Guesthouse and get some rest.
Jessica suggests that maybe Maria did met with “Beatrice” as there is a rumor that “someone” lives in the forest.
Part 03 B – Dinning Hall (Adults 10/04/86 08:00 PM ~ ?)
The adults continue to discuss “Beatrice’s Letter.”
The letter simply stated to solve the riddle and inherit the fortune, but interestingly enough does not specify that the person who solves the riddle has to be a family member to gain the fortune.
The parents decide they need to cool down and ask Rosa to call someone to bring them something to drink. Gohda arrives which confirms the telephone/income is still working at this point in the story.
The adults then go on with the possibility of a 19th person. Kinzo’s children suggests that it may be possible that Kinzo had a mistress secretly living somewhere on this island. Krauss suggests the possibility of a hidden passageway(s) or room(s).
Kyrie suggests that “Beatrice” already knows the answer to the riddle. That is why “Beatrice” challenged them now. According to Kyrie, even if “Beatrice” suddenly appears and give them the answer, no one will approve her to be the heir. So this letter is to appeal to the parents that “Beatrice” knows where the gold is and willing to negotiate. However, Kyrie finds it odd that “Beatrice” challenged the parents to this game rather than bluntly saying she wants to negotiate as there is no merit to “Beatrice” if someone beats her in a game she already won.
The parents’ talk ends around 9:00 PM.
Thoughts: Kyrie has a good point. Why does Beatrice approach them now?
Originally I was thinking b/c she was waiting for Battler, but later we find out that Ange also is able to wear the family crest (originally I thought she was Battler’s step sister with no blood ties with the family). If Beatrice was waiting for all the members in the family to arrive on the island, it makes no sense that she would execute this w/o Ange present. So Kyrie’s point currently makes the most sense.
IIRC the riddle has been up for 2 years. Another good question is why suddenly did Kinzo put it up at that time. Was Kinzo waiting for something?
Spoiler for 19人目の可能性:
Part 04 A – Meta World
After hearing the possibility of a 19th person on the island (Kinzo’s mistress), Battler quickly throws down his probatio diabolica saying while he can’t disprove there is a witch, the same is true that they cannot disprove there are more people on the island (Can’t find 19th person ≠ there is no 19th person). In response, Ronove/Beato claims Hempel's ravens (if the murderer isn’t the 19th person, it must be one of the 18 known people). Battler tries to counter this with Infinite regress (if not the 19th, then the 20th, or the 21st, or the 22nd …. X th person) but Beato claims the tactic is useless as she has the red text which can cut him off from his retreat. So Battler immediately requests:
Quote:
Battler
“この島には、18人しかいない“。
Beato
・・・・拒否する。理由は明かさない。
Quote:
Battler
“この島には、19人以上がいる“!
Beato
・・・・・・ふ。・・・拒否する。
【 … 】
Beato
・・・拒否の理由は・・・・・・・。・・・いや、今はまだ明かさぬ。いずれすぐにわかる。
【 … 】
Beato
赤は使わぬが、今よりそれを妾に代わって桜座が説明する。
Part 04 B – Dinning Hall (10/04/86 continuing where Part 3 B left off)
Rosa explains that Beatrice, Kinzo’s mistress, can’t be alive because Beatrice is already dead. Rosa claims that she had already killed Beatrice – not on purpose, that it was an accident.
Spoiler for 楼座と森の魔女:
Part 05 A – The real Beatrice
Quote:
Ronove:
六軒島の中には、九羽鳥庵という隠し屋敷が実在します。
【 … 】
はい。真実です。かつて、実際にこの場所で、お二人はこのような会話をなされてました。(in reference to a flashback with Kinzo and Beatrice)
【 … 】
ここは1967年の世界。19年前の世界でございます。
【 … 】
1967年の六軒島の隠し屋敷に、人間としてのベアトリーチェさまが存在した。
I’m cutting the summary as it’s too long. Interesting though. I love Beatrice’s side of the story (the homunculus theory) and I like Ronove’s argument why Beatrice doesn’t just say Witches exists on this island. The one thing that bothers me is Ronove is the one who’s giving the red text. Yes, he’s standing in for Beatrice, but Beatrice’s rule was HER red text is fact; she never made an exception for anyone else. So far it seems to follow the story Rosa is giving so I’ll take these for fact for now…
Confirmed (?): There was a person named Beatrice who lived on the island on 1967 (19 years ago). She been on the island as far back as she can remember, and is secluded in the smaller mansion dubbed the 九羽鳥庵 (くわどりあん) hidden deep in the forest. Beatrice believes there are wolves on the island and the only safe place in within the high walls of her villa. She is absolutely clueless of the “outside” world and is told repeatedly by Kinzo and servants who come there that she is a reincarnation of the Golden Witch Beatrice, although she finds it tough to believe as she can’t use magic herself and thus continuously wonder what purpose she has in life. Kinzo loves this Beatrice and proposed to her several times, but Beatrice refused each and every time.
I agree with Battler on his speculation of the identity of the Beatrice from Rosa’s past (Rosa’s Beatrice). Most likely Rosa’s Beatrice is the daughter (or a closely resembling girl) of a person named Beatrice who Kinzo fell in love with. Kinzo took this child in, and raised her secluded in the九羽鳥庵 trying to make her into the Beatrice he loved. Creepy.
Rosa gives the following information:
1. The walls surrounding the 九羽鳥庵 are about 2 stories tall.
2. There was a rose garden.
3. The mansion is much smaller then the main mansion on the island.
4. Beatrice was sitting in a garden chair wearing that black gorgeous gown dress in the portrait.
5. That Beatrice had mistaken her for a new gardener.
6. That Kinzo visits her every so many days. Sometimes he schedules a date, other times at random.
7. That currently they were the only ones there at the time.
8. That Beatrice seemed like she was troubled.
9. That Beatrice was definitely older than she.
10. That Beatrice was like an innocent child.
Question here is Rosa making up the story? She can’t prove anything she says and had years to think of this story. Battler only can confirm what she says through Ronove’s red text which could be false as well. Using Hemper’s Raven here, if we can prove Ronove’s red text is false, then chances that Rosa is the Rose Garden Beatrice sky rockets. Currently, there is no information that challenge what Rosa is saying, but this is something I think should be kept in mind if we later find out that Ronove’s red text is found out to be false.
But right now, I’ll take Ronove’s word… If in fact the九羽鳥庵 exists the only people we know are that know of this manor are Rosa (although she claims she doesn’t know how to get back there), Valkyria (?), a gardener, Kinzo, and at least another servant if we believe the meta story in the beginning of this episode.
Through Rosa, we know Genji and Kumasawa were working on the island. Kanon and Shannon could not have (too young) and Gohda wasn’t either.
Confirm:
Quote:
Battler
・・・・そういや、ゲストハウスの正しい名は渡来庵だって聞いたな。
Thoughts: Do the other places on the island have official names as well? (eg礼拝堂, 本館, Rose Garden, the beach, port, ect). This lacking information could be crucial.
Confirm: Wolves are extinct in Japan.
Kinzo use to tell his children that wolves live in the forest to make them fear that area. But when Rudolf mention that was cool and wanted to go pet them, Kinzo came up with the story that a Witch lives in the forest as well.
Part 05 B – Escape
Hearing that there are no wolves on the island and that Rosa knew a way out besides the gate, Beatrice asks Rosa to take her to the outside world. Beatrice has no intention in returning or any intention of seeing Kinzo again. Rosa takes her out, but doesn’t really know where she’s going and becomes lost. They do eventually arrive to the shore. Rosa knew if they can climb down the rocky cliff, they can walk along the beach and eventually arrive to a place she knows. However, Beatrice slips and falls.
Quote:
Beato
間違いなく死んでいる
Scratch what I said in 5A about Ronove’s red text and Rosa making up the story.
Beato’s red text here confirms there was a Beatrice and she’s dead. This also gives leeway that any red text given by the players on the Witch’s side is true.
Quote:
Beato
この六軒島には19人以上の人間は存在しない
And confirmation, prior to the murders of Night 1, there are only 18 people on the island.
Thoughts: Beatrice says this in order for her to state that she did in fact exist and still does but no longer trapped in a human body. This corners Battler to give in and suspect the 18 known people on the island if there is no magic involved. But Beatrice red text is also interesting in another aspect. The “dead” don’t count. There still is a possibility of people faking there deaths using corpses that they brought. <- Klashikari makes a good case that this is questionable.
Section ends at midnight
Spoiler for 儀式の開始:
Part 06 A – Night 1 begins (10/05/86 – after midnight)
The clock SE only rings 4 times. Does this mean Night 1 murders ends at 4 AM? Or is this an error…
There is a tachi-e for everyone except Kumasawa showing where they were.
Part 06 B – Kinzo’s call
Kinzo makes a phone call from his study calling for Genji.
Confirm: Phones are still working… or does this mean only the phone in the Study works and all the other phones can only receive calls but not make them?
Re-occurring event: George proposed to Shannon.
Kinzo calls on the Genji, Kanon, and Shannon. Gohda is not to in on this meeting.
Thoughts: Forget the magic and Beatrice. Is this the same event as EP 02? Did Shanon write Kinzo’s will again here?
When the servants arrive in front of Kinzo’s door, they find that the 結界 has been broken.
Thoughts: Does this mean the door was open or was not locked? Either way only Kinzo or Genji can open this door. Unless Genji did so before meeting up with Kanon and Shannon, most likely Kinzo opened the door for someone. Knowing how Kinzo is, this has to be someone he trusts.
Section ends at 12:17 AM
If we believe what happens here, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, and Kinzo all died in the Study. I have one theory… but I’ll hold it off for now.
Also as much as the game pushes Kumasawa = Valkyria, I’m going to consider them different entities until I can pin this truth through another point of view.
Spoiler for マダム・ベアトリーチェ:
Part 07 A – The Kitchen (10/05/86 12:21 AM)
Confirm: Natsuhi ordered the servants to make their rounds at night due to the rumors about the Witch (prior to these events in the story).
Gohda hears some metal clanging from the kitchen. The source of the sound was the metal pot whose lid was rattling. Gohda assumes that someone left the stove on.
Then butterfly magic happens and Gohda dies.
Thoughts: Screw the magic. Gohda saw what he saw. Someone left the stove on. Who and why? Someone left in an emergency.
I think it was Nanjo or one of the servants. I’ll explain my reason later.
Part 07 B – Kumasawa
Note: Throughout this entire part, there are butterflies, and magic things happening left and right. If magic does not exist then I believe that there are many lies being told in this section. So anything written in this part needs careful consideration if it is to be used as fact.
Kumasawa was not in the mansion, nor the guesthouse. She was in the rose garden without an umbrella.
Thoughts: What was she doing in the rose garden? I thinking it wasn’t that Kumasawa had something to do in the garden, she was on her way to the sanctuary or possibly the shed. Maybe to prepare the HAPPY HALLOWEEN MARIA, perhaps?
Kumasawa has an AT field and turns into Valkyria. She also knows Ronove and very specific chess terminology ^^; Back Rank Mate, Smothered Mate – not sure the significance here if any with these terms. If we have to push it, Back Rank Mate is a usually a type of checkmate that occurs by a beginner’s mistake. Smothered Mate is a type of checkmate where the King is unable to move do to being smothered by his own pieces – but this type of checkmate is possible occasionally very early game. (Note: I know little to nothing about advance chess techniques. Wiki is my source for both mates).
Section ends at 04:25 AM
Note: The bell SE ranged only 4 times at beginning of Part 6A.
Spoiler for ワルギリア:
Part 08 A – (10/05/86 06:00 AM)
Confirmed(?) – All the parents stayed up the entire night in the dining hall. I put a (?) here as seen in previous episodes, the parents freely left and came back throughout their meeting (bathroom breaks etc).
Confirmed – The house began to smell at this time.
They all went to the hallway then split into groups to determine the source of the smell.
(I didn’t take notes how they split up =/ IIRC it was husband and wife pairs, I do not remember who Rosa went with).
Rudolf determines it was from the boiler room, but the room is locked and they could not get in..
Natsuhi on her way to the servant’s office to find any of one of the servants notice something strange at the guest room, the red painted magic square. Kyrie later confirms that the magic square was also on the boiler room door.
Eva went to the kitchen finding no one and saw that breakfast wasn’t even being prepared.
All the parents met up with Natsuhi in front of the guest room. Hideyoshi tried the door to the guest room and found it locked.
After that Rosa, Kyrie, and Hideyoshi went to the Guest House to check up on the children. All four children were found on the second floor of the Guest House. Nanjo was also at the Guest House.
Nanjo, and Hideyoshi go back to the mansion to find a letter from Beatrice as there should be one if this is a game. Rosa and Kyrie decide to stay with the children at the Guest House.
Eva, Natsuhi, and Rudolf find that the red magic square marking were on several other doors. Magic squares found: Boiler Room, Guest Room, 2 on separate doors on the second floor, and 1 on a door on the third floor: 5 in total. All 5 were the same markings. The keys to all these rooms could not be found in the servant’s office.
At this time Nanjo and Hideyoshi arrive to tell the others, the children are safe and Rosa and Kyrie stayed with them.
The parents agreed to break the window to get to the Guest Room (first floor). Rudolf finds a rock to break the window, then after he broke small hole, he covered his hand with a handkerchief to protect himself with from the broken glass.
怪しい・・・ It was Rudolf idea to break the window. Rudolf also avoids touching the window the whole time. Beatrice’s 密室定義 talks about how invulnerable the doors are to each room, but she always avoid mentioning the window in her clause. The few times when the window is mentioned, she avoids using red text with the sentence that contains the windows and reds everything else.
Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Nanjo all went in the room. There they found Shannon’s body.
Part 08 B - Meta World, Gremlins in the TV
w00t pretty much confirms my way of thinking, =)
Cut scene indicates the scene ends at 06:25 AM.
I assume this is the time where they adults find Shannon’s body.
Spoiler for 前哨戦:
Part 09 A – Guest House (10/05/86 07:00AM)
Re-confirm: A boat is suppose to arrive around 9 AM the following morning.
Re-confirm: The telephones stop working.
The children learn of the deaths of the servants and their grandfather.
The adults determined that the mansion was not safe, and gathered everyone in the Guest house. Krauss, Eva, Rudolf, and Rosa all equipped themselves with Winchester Riffles.
Kinzo’s body (?) was burnt again the boiler room.
* Re-occurring event. This is how Kinzo is supposed to be “killed.” Meaning there was a screw up in EP 02. Again the only way they confirm the body is by the number of toes.
Confirm: There are only 5 master keys total. That kills my suspicion of word play (Each servant has a master key + there are 5 master keys doesn’t equal there are only 5 master keys).
According to Valkyria and the TIPS
1. Shannon’s body was found on the 1st floor guest room with a wound caused by a gun or a spear-like weapon to the chest. A master key was found on the body. Next to the body was an envelope and within it was the key to the 2nd floor visitor room.
2. Genji’s body was found on the 2nd floor VIP room found with a wound caused by a gun or a spear-like weapon to the neck. A master key was found on the body. Next to the body was an envelope and within it was the key to the 3rd floor waiting room.
3. Gohda’s body was found in the 3rd floor waiting room with a wound caused by a gun or a spear-like weapon to his neck. This room is next door to Kinzo’s study. A master key was found on the body. Next to the body was an envelope and within it was the key to the 2nd floor guest room.
4. Kumasawa’s body was found in the 2nd floor guest room with a wound caused by a gun or a spear-like weapon to the chest. This room is rarely used but Kumasawa often took afternoon naps here in secret. A master key was found on the body. Next to the body was an envelope and within it was the key to the boiler room.
5. Kinzo’s burnt corpse was in the boiler room. Here the parents found the key to the sanctuary. In addition, the adults found the letter here challenging them to the riddle.
6. Kanon’s body was found in the sanctuary with a wound caused by a gun or a spear-like weapon to the stomach. A master key was found on the body. Next to the body was an envelope and within it was the key to the 1st floor guest room.
In addition:
Beato tells Battler there are no tricks which can to open/close the door (by fishing line, etc), there are no remote controls or any other electronic means to open/close the doors, and the telephone or any other wired device cannot open/close the doors. Knocking, talking, or any other sounds may be heard through the door. A locked-room does not cut off communication with others outside the room.
My thoughts: Battler is on a good start, but there is another possibility that I think is possible: 病死. What if Kinzo’s life just abruptly ended? He called Genji, Kanon, and Shannon to write his will, but then during this session, he had a seizure/stroke/whatever. Nanjo was called in. One of them went to the kitchen to get warm water/towel/one of Kinzo’s “magic” potions/etc but forgot to turn off the stove because they were panicked.
Alibis: Slightly different from the previous chapters.
All the parents stayed up the entire night in the dinning hall. That exempts all of them being involved.
No one else has a solid alibi. The children are thought to together, but George proves that any one of them can slip out while the rest are sleeping w/o the others noticing. The Shannon, Kanon, and Genji are assumed to be together up until the enter Kinzo room. After that it is not known what actions they took (I don’t care about the magic battle as that’s a lie). Gohda went to the kitchen at 12:21 AM, after that his whereabouts are unknown. No one knows what Nanjo and Kumasawa were doing. It is assumed that Kumasawa was in the rose garden around 12:21AM according to Beato.
However, Shannon and Gohda are is a confirmed “sheep” from the previous chapters.
I probably shouldn’t but I will also give Battler 主人公 immunity, and Maria the benefit of the doubt as it’s just not physically possibly imo.
So that leaves us with Genji, Kanon, Nanjo, Kumasawa, George, and Jessica as possibilities. While I know Genji and Kanon are dead, currently, there’s no way to prove that one person killed all six.
*Gohda might not be as innocent as I once believed ref post #305
There’s also one other thing that bothers me about these death: the murder weapon. Even w/o Beato’s red it’s obviously not a suicide as if it was the weapon would be easily found (poison or self bludgeoning could be observed later by police). Also the wound on most of them could not be determined if it was done by a gun or a was a bladed puncture wound.
This bothers me because… the only guns we know of are the .45 caliber sawed off Winchesters. While I’m no gun expert, I’m pretty sure the exit wound from a .45 caliber shot doesn’t resemble a spear-like weapon. Being that they are sawed off, I’m not sure if silencers are possible on these guns as well (maybe very special custom made ones, perhaps?). Again, I’m no gun expert so I might be very off on these.
Also burning one body is odd. I think the culprit burned the body for two reasons. First to grab the adults attention to the situation. Second is to cover up for something. Since Beato already proved the “dead” don’t count in her 18, there is still a possibility that this is a dummy corpse. If it’s not, then possibly the cause of death, as this is the only body without a puncture wound.
What’s really odd about the body is that it’s the fifth one recovered. Looking at how the bodies and keys were placed, the order the parents went should be the correct order. Meaning the sanctuary is supposed to be where they end up last. Rudolf had some suspicious moments in this story. I wonder if it manufactured the adults to go to the 1st floor guest room first to prevent anyone to go to the sanctuary first from some odd reason (as from EP 02 we know it’s possible to break a window to get into there).
Actually, wait. Thinking about it again, if the Sanctuary was the first place to be searched, then Kinzo’s body in the boiler room should have been the last body recovered. In a “game” perspective that makes the most sense with the Beatrice’s letter being placed with this body. If this is true, then burning the corpse has the opposite effect. It forced the parents to stay within the mansion to look for the missing servants and a way into the boiler room as they feared some malfunction in there.
Again here Rudolf is suspicious. Kyrie/Rudolf only mention the magic square on the boiler room door AFTER they confirmed from the other adults they found other magic squares on the other doors. But Rudolf and Kyrie have a solid alibi. Even if the adults can sneak out of the dinning hall (for a bathroom break, etc) would either of them have enough time to do anything? This is really doubtful. Beato said there are no traps in these killings. Even if somehow these two were able to kill everyone, it’s doubtful they can create the individual lock room situation on the various floors. Yet there is something very odd about these two since EP 01. I do not think they are involved in the first night killing… but possibly they might have noticed the situation and took advantage of it…? To kill this suspicion I will carefully noted their actions.
Spoiler for 分黄金郷の鍵:
Part 10 A – Breaking the riddle (10/05/86 09:00 AM)
1. Kyrie believes the riddle is broken down in 4 parts: How to approach the riddle (first 2 lines), where the key lies (next 3 lines), where the golden land is (next 11 lines), what to do once you arrive there (last 6 lines).
2. “懐かしき故郷”does not refer to Kinzo’s place of birth 小田原
3. Confirm: Kinzo didn’t want to be the当主
Quote:
Person A (I can’t remember who said this… Eva?)
聞いた話では、とても楽しい少年時代だったそうよ。
Person B (I don’t remember who said this… Rudolf? Kruass?)
・・・親父の人生で最大の不幸は多分、右代宮家の当主にさせられたことだろうよ。
Person C(Hideyoshi?)
・・・恐らくな。親父殿は右代宮家の当主になど、本当になりたくなかったのだ。
4. 鮎の川 does not refer to a geographic location. It symbolizes something. 鮎 itself is a symbol. Hideyoshi mentions that ayu are like salmon which are born in fresh water but soon depart to live in the ocean, and then return back to fresh water to lay their eggs. Rosa believes might ayu’s river might be the family tree, especially since the riddle says: 川を下れば、やがて里あり. If you look at the family tree there is a 里 in 真里亜.
5. Confirm: Kinzo did not named Maria
Quote:
Rosa
それに、お父様はかつて真里亜に全然違う名前をつけるように言っていたの。それを私が勝手に真 里亜にした。
Because of this, Rosa does not believe Kinzo will use Maria’s name to be part of the riddle. Krauss agrees with this.
6. Kyrie attempts to analyze the 3rd part of the riddle. She thinks that the riddle might be a word puzzle. The first night’s 6 sacrifices might be letters to be killed/ignored as the second night is setting a limitation.
7. Rosa points out the oddity in the tenth night. Throughout the riddle the word 黄金卿 is used but on the tenth night, it is written as 黄金の卿. Does this 「の」have a meaning?
Part 10 B – Meta World
北風と太陽作戦・・・ I thought this was pretty easy to see what was going to happen ^^;
Valkyria also mentions to Beato that she’s lost in her way. The point of the game isn’t to put Battler on his knees in despair, it’s to make him accept “Beatrice’s” existence.
After reading this, I think it’s possible for Battler and Beatrice to both “win” this game without conflicting with each other goals. If Battler proves the murders are humanly possible then he will win, but Beatrice can also win if she could make Battler believe in a miracle. These two ideologies don’t conflict. Beato doesn’t need to pursue deadly magic to make Battler believe in magic. I think that’s probably how this game will end in the last EP with both of them getting satisfactory results. “Beatrice” after all isn’t just an evil witch. She even mentions true magic is love in EP 02.
Part 10 C – EVA’s answer to the riddle
River = the family tree is probably correct.
Ayu itself isn’t that important. The fact that it leaves to the ocean is.
Then Kyrie’s idea of a 6 letter key is most likely correct as well.
To solve this riddle, you have to think like a child. Don’t be too bent on meanings.
Then she goes library to research something.
One thing I notice is “岸” is in quotes like “川” was in her thoughts.
Another clue is when you read the word, it isn’t 6 letters, you have to look at it another way…
Presumably from the cut scene this took place at 9:00~9:36AM
Eva makes no mentions that Maria’s 里 is not correct. If Rosa, said what she said to throw Krauss and the other adults off, then I think there’s something to this.
Kyrie is correct in the fact that it’s a word puzzle and we should look at the family tree.
Since Kinzo discriminates pretty heavily, I’ll only look at the family members with crest. (note: at the time I sat down and work this out I didn’t think Ange was related to blood with Kinzo so I didn’t include her).
Since thinking like a child was stress, I’m going to look at these names like a picture. I see a river down the middle. Both Rosa and Rudolf have 二人 in their names (夫=二人 and 座 has 人人) so I’m thinking the riddle is pointing to these two. Follow the river down this path. Here we find two “きし”(騎士=戦人 and 季子=真里亜) and the 里. Next to the 里 there is another 二人 if we combine to two names. At the mouth of this 二人 there is a cross. This is the key. But just this by itself is tough to narrow down exact meaning. Eva went to look up something, so I think she was either looking up a reference in either the Bible or well known churches in Japan. I’m going to ignore the Bible since we have no guide to what to look up yet. There are two famous churches that come to mind: 浦上天主堂 and大浦天主堂 both very old churches in Japan. But if Battler is a きし then possibly his 戦 has a meaning. A church that has to do with war is 浦上天主堂, ground zero where the A-bomb dropped. Now to get 6 letters from this… I’ll drop the 天主堂 and only work with 浦上 (2). In hiragana it’s うらかみ (4). In romaji, it’s urakami (7). I think this is where Eva got stuck, but if you look at the romaji more closely, “a” is repeated, thus there are only 6 characters: a, i, k, m, r, u.
Since the key is in romaji, I’ll convert all the names in romaji and kill those 6 characters.
If you put in all 18 people here plus Ange it’ll look like this.
I’ve already made the first night’s sacrifice. The second night… I’m wondering if you’re suppose to ignore doubles (like the SS in JeSSic or the TT in BaTTler). The third night to me seems to be a message how to order the remaining letters.
I have no idea about the body parts yet.
This theory is possibly really off. The biggest hole is I’m using Maria in the puzzle. And I’m forcing the river and 二人into the picture. Also the whole "ocean" business - I'm not too sure. 浦上天主堂 is somewhat close to a river that goes to the ocean...
Another doubt I have is the letters on the sanctuary: m, b, t, q that we learned in EP 02. hmmm….
Player perspective-wise:
I do think Kyrie is right that this a word puzzle. Ryukishi 07 provided us with the way the names should be spelled using the alphabet. While this may be just for fluff, the way Kyrie and Gohda are spelled seems to have an intentional meaning.
I'm going to stop here for now and possibly continue writing out my thoughts in a few more days... (still another 1000+ pictures to look through uggghhhh).
Last edited by nagare; 2008-09-04 at 14:32.
Reason: Klashikari pointed out questionable areas, thx / Edit time when Eva solves the riddle. I need to learn how to read a clock ><
After looking up the Italian that's in the full op and thinking about what happened in Umineko so far...
It kinda seems as if it's from both Kinzo's and Battler's Points of View