2013-02-06, 04:32 | Link #6722 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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I'm pretty sure that prior to independence, the primary language of Indonesia was called Malay too.
Anyway, the borders in South East Asia are fairly artificial. They're based on the British and Dutch Colonial Empires, and not on any actual nation states. For instance, if the Malay peninsula, or Malaysian Borneo been part of the Dutch Colonial Empire, they probably would have ended out as part of "Indonesia" too. Likewise, if the British had owned Sumatra, it would have ended up in Malaysia. |
2013-02-06, 04:57 | Link #6724 | |
Banned
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2013-02-06, 05:21 | Link #6725 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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That's the problem with borders based on Colonies. Artificial. The Philippines itself, like Malaysia and Indonesia is a fairly artificial entity, though it's existed as a single polity for longer. |
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2013-02-06, 05:35 | Link #6726 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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To be sure, the "culture shock" cuts both ways. It is difficult for non-Europeans to appreciate the original definition of a "nation-state". A modern state, in European historical experience, is made up of a group of people with a shared ethnicity. Hence, it takes a nation of English to make England, a nation of French to make France, a nation of Germans to make Germany, and so on. In the popular experience of Europe, there is little distinction between a nation and a state. National groups that clamour for independence would break away from larger hegemonic states to become states in their own right. In that sense, to an European, a "state" is made up of people of one primary ethnicity. The concept of a diaspora, like those of the Jews and the Chinese, never quite took hold. (Indeed, the Romani nation was often scorned for their lack of a state, a country to call their own.) To the European mind, it seems, it doesn't matter whether you're originally Chinese, Irish or Polish — once you've settled down permanently in the United States, for example, you effectively become American. In other words, there doesn't seem to be any separation between ethnicity and nationality. They are one and the same to an European. Quote:
Many Singaporeans, who are mostly Chinese in ethnicity, are often confused about this. When they see Malay-looking Indonesians eating pork, they wonder what's going on. They don't realise that a good number of Indonesians are actually Christian or Hindu. For these Indonesians, pork is not haram. In this regard, I'm sad to say that many Singaporeans are woefully ignorant of history and geography. (Try asking a Singaporean to name the states of Malaysia, our immediate neighbour. I'm ready to bet that most will not be able to identify all 13, let alone place them on the map.) Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2013-02-06 at 05:50. |
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2013-02-06, 05:54 | Link #6727 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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However, a nation is also pretty artificial too. For instance, if half my ancestors were all Jewish, but I speak English, don't believe in Judaism, eat pork, don't take part in any Jewish cultural activities and am generally culturally Irish / American, my father is an Irish catholic, and I live in Ireland, what does that make me? Orthodox Jews will view me as a Jew(because you're Jewish if your mother is Jewish, no exceptions), Americans will sorta view me as American (because anyone can be American if they want to be), and Irish people (who I share the most in common with) will be rather ambivalent about it all, because my Americanisms make me stick out like a sore thumb, so when they meet me they think "American". It's all hopelessly confusing. However, the "nation state" attitudes are the root of a lot of strife that's occurred in Europe over the last centuries. Europe was only able to form it's nice neat nation states after 2 world wars and massive ethnic cleansing and assimilation projects. I would not wish the same process on any other continent. And the zones where multiple cultures still coexist are still unstable (think Northern Ireland, Basque country...) |
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2013-02-06, 06:36 | Link #6728 | |
Unspecified
Scanlator
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
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We are coexist just like Korea & Japan
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2013-02-06, 08:04 | Link #6729 |
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 35
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If you say that to another Chinese apart from me in Malaysia, he or she may be offended, since Malay and Chinese are two different ethnic groups, and lumping them together means that the distinctive culture of the two groups is ignored, which may lead to a sense of loss of identity. While one might say that it doesn't matter, and that in the end Malay, Chinese, Indians and indigenous tribes are Malaysians, us Malaysians still prefer not to be assimilated into one giant group, which is why the issue of race is a sensitive one here, cause there have been cases when the Muslims try to force their law upon non-Muslims.
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2013-02-06, 09:18 | Link #6731 |
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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Folks, please remember not to go around posting personal information of others openly in threads, even if the person in question is a friend. That people reveal things about themselves (their nationality) to some, does not mean they want that info posted for all to see in any forum thread.
Also avoid making lists were you try to make said personal info even more easily available to others.
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2013-02-07, 06:32 | Link #6733 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
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The relations between two countries was normalized after Suharto took over Indonesia presidency, but the animosity remains, which has been useful lately for both countries to distract their people from more pressing domestic concerns. Quote:
Sumatra would be rather hard to control from Malaya. Historically, it has always been Malayan Peninsula under Sumatran domination. Quote:
2) There are not so few of Indonesian muslims who don't observe pork ban. 3) Ignorance transcends national boundaries. It's not that bad. At least it hasn't infiltrated schools... well not since '60s anyway. Quote:
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2013-02-07, 10:50 | Link #6737 | ||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Still called malay though. However, that's what you get when a language becomes a lingua franca for a region, like Malay did.
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Eh, prior to the Spanish arriving the Philipines were a collection of Aboriginal tribes, and feuding minor kingdoms and sultanates, with no single eoncompassing culture, religion or language. Even today there are 171 languages spoken throughout the archipelago. Hell, even the name "Philippines" was given to the archipelago by the Spanish (naming it after Philip II). Quote:
It's also a similar story for India as well, who's unification is just as artificial as that of Indonesia or the Philipines, though India did have some Empires in the past that controlled the entire subcontinent. But that's nothing like, say, China which has existed in a largely unified form for the last 3-5 thousand years (with a few interregnums). |
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2013-02-08, 02:46 | Link #6738 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
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Before Malaysia, there was never any Peninsular polity that once established any foothold on Borneo. Brunei actually remained strong enough to maintain independence, even from Europeans, until 19th century.
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2013-02-08, 07:04 | Link #6739 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Quote:
If by some quirk of history it had been great Britain that had acquired Aceh rather then the Netherlands, it would have probably ended up within Malaysia. And politically there would have been few issues, as the people there, like on the peninsula, are "Malay", whereas in comparison, those people would have less in common with the people from Java(Indonesia's center of power). |
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2013-02-08, 09:22 | Link #6740 | |
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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