AnimeSuki Forums

Jan-Poo · 2010-12-23, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

It's the 5th Game that makes everything click, though.

It was really not necessary and you know it. Everything was solvable after EP4, plus there is no evidence that Battler actually used EP5 to reach his solution. EP5 just provided him the knox rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Except no. EP5 even makes this big thing about how writings are an attempt by an author for the reader to understand their message. I mean, unless Agatha Christie is the culprit of her stories...

Agatha Christie doesn't figures in her stories. Also you are misinterpreting a bit of stuff. What EP5 "makes big thing about" is the trust among author and reader. You don't really need to understand the author's heart to solve a mystery.

Renall · 2010-12-23, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Agatha Christie doesn't figures in her stories.

Well, neither does Yasu. At the very least (if you believe she actually physically posed as Shannon or Kanon), she didn't portray herself as the person ep7 says she is.

rogerpepitone · 2010-12-23, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Agatha Christie doesn't figures in her stories. Also you are misinterpreting a bit of stuff. What EP5 "makes big thing about" is the trust among author and reader. You don't really need to understand the author's heart to solve a mystery.

Agatha Christie may not, but Ariadne Oliver does.

Tyabann · 2010-12-23, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Agatha Christie may not, but Ariadne Oliver does.

To the detriment of virtually all of Christie's later books, yes.

AuraTwilight · 2010-12-23, 16:34

Quote:

It was really not necessary and you know it. Everything was solvable after EP4, plus there is no evidence that Battler actually used EP5 to reach his solution. EP5 just provided him the knox rules.

Now you're just splitting hairs.

LaplaceNoMa · 2010-12-23, 17:40

I didn't read this thread while ep7 wasn't translated and couldn't find the answer to my question: what about the final riddle of ep6? It's not like Shkannontrice theory was able to solve this one even before ep7. And still I don't see any fitting answer for this one, even after ep7.

Oh and also I didn't really understand the Ep2 T1 part in Clair vs Will confrontation. What's the deal with the gold truth and illusions about this one?

And yeah, they didn't even mention Natsuhi's death from ep1. Weird.

Judoh · 2010-12-23, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It was really not necessary and you know it. Everything was solvable after EP4, plus there is no evidence that Battler actually used EP5 to reach his solution. EP5 just provided him the knox rules.

it was necessary for him. Because he's incompetent. I also think there are a few scenes he needed to get his solution. Not just Knox rules. It depends on your interpretation. Episode 5 for example would be needed to be certain about the fake first twilight. At the least anyway. It's true that you can come to that conclusion before it, but I don't beleive there's any proof that Battler believed that before then.

Renall · 2010-12-23, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa

I didn't read this thread while ep7 wasn't translated and couldn't find the answer to my question: what about the final riddle of ep6? It's not like Shkannontrice theory was able to solve this one even before ep7. And still I don't see any fitting answer for this one, even after ep7.

The "cups within cups, boards within boards" answer isn't dependent on Shkanon (but it can make use of Shkanon if it likes) and sort of solves it. Will didn't address Chiru's mysteries so an even vague "canon" answer is not existent at this time.

chronotrig · 2010-12-23, 18:46

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Ryuukishi posted another diary entry.

He didn't say anything for sure, but it sounds like he's far from finished as a writer with EP8. Apparently, he does want to make a 'Rei' for Umineko and is looking forward to writing a new work sometime in the future. No word about when he hopes to do any of this though.

Renall · 2010-12-23, 21:21

Has he got anything lined up in the immediate future?

Jan-Poo · 2010-12-23, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judoh

it was necessary for him. Because he's incompetent. I also think there are a few scenes he needed to get his solution. Not just Knox rules. It depends on your interpretation. Episode 5 for example would be needed to be certain about the fake first twilight. At the least anyway. It's true that you can come to that conclusion before it, but I don't beleive there's any proof that Battler believed that before then.

To be honest I think that what really helped Battler was the conversation he had with Virgilia and Dlanor.

At any rate I find the idea that he completely failed after 4 episodes mastered by Beatrice only to finally understand everything because of a completely loveless game laughable at best.

narukamikun · 2010-12-23, 23:33

@Renall: Well, Rewrite is slated for April 28.

Also hello, I haven't posted on this board for a LONG time.

AuraTwilight · 2010-12-24, 00:09

Quote:

At any rate I find the idea that he completely failed after 4 episodes mastered by Beatrice only to finally understand everything because of a completely loveless game laughable at best.

Loveless or not, the board did have new and useful information, and we the readers were given it for a reason. You're just kind of throwing a bit of a fit, here.

Quote:

Oh and also I didn't really understand the Ep2 T1 part in Clair vs Will confrontation. What's the deal with the gold truth and illusions about this one?

And yeah, they didn't even mention Natsuhi's death from ep1. Weird.

Simply put: Someone shot Natsuhi, the chapel was never locked.

Marion · 2010-12-24, 01:06

For the record, Will's deductions were basically summed up as: there were no closed rooms, we were just fooled into thinking they were closed.

...Honestly, a bit of a cheap answer, but oh well.

loctar87 · 2010-12-24, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa

I didn't read this thread while ep7 wasn't translated and couldn't find the answer to my question: what about the final riddle of ep6? It's not like Shkannontrice theory was able to solve this one even before ep7. And still I don't see any fitting answer for this one, even after ep7.

Wait, the final riddle of ep6? Isn't this easy with the Shkannontrice theory? Shannon escapes from window, becomes Kanon, saves Battler, hides in closet, then while in closet he becomes Shannon. "Kanon" no longer exists in the room, or anywhere else for that matter.

Renall · 2010-12-24, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

For the record, Will's deductions were basically summed up as: there were no closed rooms, we were just fooled into thinking they were closed.

...Honestly, a bit of a cheap answer, but oh well.

It's not that cheap, inasmuch as most of the time Battler just assumed they were closed rooms on his own.

Kylon99 · 2010-12-24, 01:48

I think if we take the Closed Room Lecture from the Hollow Man / The Three Coffins, then there really can't be a closed room murder for reals. It all has to be a trick of some kind.

Basically, a closed room murder isn't a closed room or isn't a murder. 8) There's no way but to be cheap.

Although Umineko did do some interesting things; i.e. someone else coming in, taking the place of someone inside and restoring the closed room. That was kinda neat...

Moogleking · 2010-12-24, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by loctar87

Wait, the final riddle of ep6? Isn't this easy with the Shkannontrice theory? Shannon escapes from window, becomes Kanon, saves Battler, hides in closet, then while in closet he becomes Shannon. "Kanon" no longer exists in the room, or anywhere else for that matter.

Can you come up with a reason for why that happens, though?

LyricalAura · 2010-12-24, 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Ryuukishi posted another diary entry.

He didn't say anything for sure, but it sounds like he's far from finished as a writer with EP8. Apparently, he does want to make a 'Rei' for Umineko and is looking forward to writing a new work sometime in the future. No word about when he hopes to do any of this though.

It's also rather comforting seeing how happy he is about the content of EP8 in the last couple entries. He said he managed to put in everything he wanted, and it was the episode he had the most fun writing out of all of them.

Renall · 2010-12-24, 03:23

Are we... are we positive that's a good sign?

2010-12-23, 18:46	Link #20249
chronotrig Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Buffer overflow	Not sure if this was mentioned, but Ryuukishi posted another diary entry. He didn't say anything for sure, but it sounds like he's far from finished as a writer with EP8. Apparently, he does want to make a 'Rei' for Umineko and is looking forward to writing a new work sometime in the future. No word about when he hopes to do any of this though. __________________ "The only moral it is possible to draw from this story is that one should never throw the letter 'q' into a privet bush. But, unfortunately, there are times when it is unavoidable." --Hitchhikers www.witch-hunt.com Theory page

2010-12-23, 21:21	Link #20250
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	Has he got anything lined up in the immediate future? __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-12-24, 03:23	Link #20260
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	Are we... are we positive that's a good sign? __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-12-23, 17:40	Link #20246
LaplaceNoMa Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Age: 35	I didn't read this thread while ep7 wasn't translated and couldn't find the answer to my question: what about the final riddle of ep6? It's not like Shkannontrice theory was able to solve this one even before ep7. And still I don't see any fitting answer for this one, even after ep7. Oh and also I didn't really understand the Ep2 T1 part in Clair vs Will confrontation. What's the deal with the gold truth and illusions about this one? And yeah, they didn't even mention Natsuhi's death from ep1. Weird.

2010-12-23, 23:33	Link #20252
narukamikun Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	@Renall: Well, Rewrite is slated for April 28. Also hello, I haven't posted on this board for a LONG time.

2010-12-24, 01:06	Link #20254
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	For the record, Will's deductions were basically summed up as: there were no closed rooms, we were just fooled into thinking they were closed. ...Honestly, a bit of a cheap answer, but oh well.

2010-12-24, 01:48	Link #20257
Kylon99 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space	I think if we take the Closed Room Lecture from the Hollow Man / The Three Coffins, then there really can't be a closed room murder for reals. It all has to be a trick of some kind. Basically, a closed room murder isn't a closed room or isn't a murder. 8) There's no way but to be cheap. Although Umineko did do some interesting things; i.e. someone else coming in, taking the place of someone inside and restoring the closed room. That was kinda neat...