Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Radik

It's more a matter of not agreeing than outright disregarding your points. It's not even that I disagree with you that much, I personally would have preferred it if Quarter and Ranka didn't appear in the scene at all and Alto was flying in front of Battle Frontier while saluting. However, that's simply not the case. In the end the only thing I see is Alto saluting to both Sheryl and Ranka, and only Sheryl responds.

EDIT: nevermind, I'll just leave it at that like Tak said.

Man .. how can you even dispute the positionning of the VF25 in battroid mode (toward Sheryl), the following frame of the Battroid saluting and Sheryl saluting back while Ranka is singing her heart out -AWAY- from Alto because she knows damn well the salute wasn't for her (if she even saw it)?

All this being said, the "closeness" of both bridges is -not- an animation mistake, it is barely even an artistic licence, there is a perfectly valid explanation, same scene as seen in Macross Plus at the end on the Macross bridge.

The panoramic view is -not- a direct view outside, but a magnified Video view of whatever interests them at the moment (hence the artistic licence).
Thus things appear bigger, because they are zoomed in.
That makes the closeness of the VF25 even more obvious, because it is clearly visible in the Sheryl scene, whereas not visible or barely in the similar Ranka scene. Just another hint...

[TwilightHack]

Its called trolling or just plain thick headedness.

[elfboy]

Ah, you know that the arguments are going to start taking on a whole new level of fanaticism (or apathy) when people start showing off what liquor they're going to imbibe! Personally, I reached that level way back on page... 42.

The more I read about the arguments of each ship, and who Alto really cares more about, the more I'm convinced that... Sheryl is way too good for Alto! Sheryl my queen!

Honestly though, I'm past caring who won or lost this 'battle' for Alto's affections. It's time to see the Macross Frontier womenfolk nekkid!!! (Hands up who's with me!)

p/s: I still heartily hope that the Kawamori finds a way to reverse Micheal's death, not because I wanna diminish his heroic role in the whole series, but because I feel so sad for Kuran Kuran.

[Wesley84]

She'll get over him. She had better get over him. Hate to see a fine woman throw away her life because her child hood piss ant of a friend got himself offed in an overly dramatic fashion that was largely forgotten by everyone else in the series until the final episode where they passed around his stupid sniper bit like a lead-based painted joint.

[lubczyk]

Ok, so Aimo was a mating song right? If so, why did the Vajra try to kill everybody until the end and why did they suddenly change sides? Again, if Aimo is a mating song, why did the Vajra get all violent and try to kill the Frontier Fleet when Ranka sang it as their queen? Was it some sort of unintentional guro rape on the part of the Vajra?

[Wesley84]

There's lots of contradicting theories on what the Vajra are by the end isn't there? I think they'll quietly disappear and be forgotten in later series.

[elfboy]

Maybe the Vajra were pissed because, "Hey, that's our mating song... where are the babes? What? We're all guys here?! Shit! Hey look, there's some big bazoongas on those ships... lookin' mighty fine... Shit! Those round things are shooting weird stuff at us! Those aren't boobs! They're male ships!"

Either that or they paid for Sheryl to perform, and got stuck with Ranka... refunds!!! :P

Honestly though, I think it was something to do with the "fold wave"-o-meter thing that Ranka's voice produces, as revealed in ep 20 - Diamond Crevasse that when Ranka is having negative feelings, her 'wave' is negative and the Vajra become more aggressive as a result. When her 'wave' is positive, the Vajra become confused. Has to be something based on that.

[Elandyll]

I was also confused as to why the Vajra (supposedly non agressive by nature) would have attacked the original colonists in response to the Aimo song Ranka sung when she was a child, but then Ranka's explanation sheds some light on this.

The song itself, although is attracted them, is not the reason they attacked, although the Vajra do have feelings on a different level and can be controlled through the Fold waves and Songs. Upon their arrival, they did not recognize humans as a sentient specie, but Ranka yes, as she could "communiquate" with them on some level.
They deduced that one of their kind was being held captive by a form of life they could not understand, and chose to attack said form of life.

Years later, during her experiment, Grace theorized that by using fold quartz that originated from the Vajra and manipulating a descendant of the Nome family line (Sheryl), she might be able to control the Vajra, specially if she were to infect her with the V type virus (trying to recreate a Ranka). This plot became useless when she realized that Ranka was on board of Frontier (some might say she organized Sheryl's tour to Frontier knowing that Ranka was there and specially to test her abilities and determine if she could "dump" the Sheryl experiment) and that Ranka was a far more effective tool than an infected Sheryl with her fold quartz earings.

After all that, and as Ranka says in the end, one of Shery's song about loneliness made the Vajra collective mind (queen?) realize that they, as species, were close enough to not want to wipe each other out, and rather concentrate on tackling their common ennemy.
From there, how do you cohabit with giant bugs whose blood is a deadly virus, and who can be made really mad by songs amplifying Fold Waves, is another story

[Tak]

I can't believe you people are making me do this.

I just watched EP 25 again, and it becomes very obvious to me that Alto was indeed saluting Sheryl and not Ranka. After all, how can you salute both girls at the same time?

First: To show you the distance between the ships



^ If Alto was saluting both gals, then he would have been saluting in a straight line, into the empty void. That would have meant an effort wasted, no? Never mind that none of the girls would see the salute given the distance between each ship.

Second: Look at Sheryl's reaction



^ If you watch that scene again, Sheryl's head was tracing Alto's VF-25 while he was clearly facing her, not Ranka. Moreover, Alto was obviously within close proximity of Sheryl's vessel for her to see him. That being said, look at Ranka, she clearly did not take notice and kept on singing.

Unless Alto suddenly bossom jumped in quick succession to both Macrosses, I highly doubt saluting both girls was his or the producers' intention.

Unless you are on Bavarian beer, it is really not that difficult to articulate.

- Tak (And to think a dying Sheryl saved Ranka from her coma, what was her reward? A slap to the face against a person nearing death's door. Good job Ranka, good job)

[Radik]

Originally Posted by Tak

I can't believe you people are making me do this.

Especially after asking everyone to stop arguing about this, I can't believe you end up posting about it again.

Originally Posted by Tak

If Alto was saluting both gals, then he would have been saluting in a straight line, into the empty void. That would have meant an effort wasted, no? Never mind that none of the girls would see the salute given the distance between each ship.

...Talk about thick-headed, seems to me people didn't even bother to read my posts at all. It obviously wasn't a wasted effort because they could both see it. Again: Sheryl could actually see Ranka standing on her stage, which means Ranka could see Sheryl as well, which obviously means that they could both see Alto no matter where he was flying in between the two ships. This is a fact. No matter what the first screenshot shows about the distance it's obvious it doesn't match up with the distance and perspective shown in the next screenshot, and it's that one that matters. If you want to argue that Ranka turning her head at the exact same moment Sheryl does is mere coincidence then go ahead, to me it makes sense they both turned their head because they both noticed the VF flying right in between the two ships. Ranka simply continued to sing afterwards and ignored the salute.


Obviously the VF would have its back turned towards Ranka if Alto wanted to salute Sheryl only. This isn't the case, why do you think that is?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Radik

Especially after asking everyone to stop arguing about this, I can't believe you end up posting about it again.

Welcome to the world of peer pressure.

Originally Posted by Radik

Again: Sheryl could actually see Ranka standing on her stage, which means Ranka could see Sheryl as well,

Via monitor.

Originally Posted by Radik

which obviously means that they could both see Alto no matter where he was flying in between the two ships. This is a fact.

Its not.

Originally Posted by Radik

If you want to argue that Ranka turning her head at the exact same moment Sheryl does is mere coincidence then go ahead, to me it makes sense they both turned their head because they both noticed the VF flying right in between the two ships. Ranka simply continued to sing afterwards and ignored the salute.

Why don't you watch it again, Sheryl traced her head towards Alto's VF-25, Ranka clearly did not. Show me an instance or a screen shot where Ranka's head followed Alto's VF-25. She did not see it, and that is that. Or, she ignored him. Given that, why salute Ranka? Whats the point in saluting Ranka? The meaning would be lost, because that salute to Sheryl meant 'mission accomplished, now onto the next one'. Its a homage to DYRL, nothing more, nothing less.



^ Ranka is not looking at Alto. Now that is a fact.

- Tak

[Radik]

Originally Posted by Tak

Via monitor.

Not just via the monitor, look closely at the orange stage and follow the spotlights.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Radik

Not just via the monitor, look closely at the orange stage.

And that is what I call a stretched argument.

- Tak

[BetoJR]

Good Lord, we still on this? Can't we find something else to minutely argue? C'mon, I have trust in you, people...

[Tak]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Good Lord, we still on this? Can't we find something else to minutely argue? C'mon, I have trust in you, people...

Argh, screw this, do whatever ya people want!

- Tak

[Radik]

Originally Posted by Tak

And that is what I call a stretched argument.

Why? What doesn't make this a valid point?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Radik

Why? What doesn't make this a valid point?

Because there is no way in hell those two Macrosses can be within that close proximity to one another without colliding their shoulders and causing collateral damage, ok? Or unless Macross Quarter want to obstruct the Battle 25's line of fire, which could be the dumbest fucking thing to do in my book.

Duh?

- Tak

[Radik]

Originally Posted by Tak

Because there is no way in hell those two Macrosses can be within that close proximity to one another without colliding their shoulders and causing collateral damage, ok? Or unless Macross Quarter want to obstruct the Battle 25's line of fire.

Duh?

- Tak

I'll just quote Mughi's explanation again here:

Originally Posted by Mughi

Not really picking on you, but this keeps coming up as a mistake when it wasn't. The distance between the Quarter and Battle 25 wasn't a "mess up", it was artistic license. From a purely techincal perspective, the proximity and size of Quarter compared to Battle 25, there is almost no way for this layout to have occurred. This is a show with EXTENSIVE and carefully planned 3D animation. 3D animation has to be forced in an agressive way to get things to appear in the "wrong place", once you establish the positions of objects in the shots. (as was done in the shot where we see Alto fly over to Battle 25 From Quarter... and based on what we've seen of Quarter launching VF's, even this shot was a compromise...) THIS sort of thing doesn't happen accidentally. It is carefully choreographed. The animators have to "cheat the shot" to make something like this even happen.

[blewin]

Just finished the last episode. The entire episode was visually and aurally confusing. The songs and the sound of the battle are too noisy, and the fighter jets and robots (as my bro said, they got a little fighting jet, then a bigger robot, and a giant robot!) look excessive, and the lights flashing around dizzy me. I also don't like the giant Ranka (already annoying me there in ep 24) floating around with Vjira and human jets zooming around her.

oh, and the last bits of really dreamy and mystical scenes don't click as well too. I mean the scenes with Alto, Ranka and Shirly chatting in space and the two girls coming together and become Alto's fighter jet.. it's too surreal and hard to stomach against the realistic backdrop of a fierce battle...

but I like the last scene of Alto flying in the sky and the two girls looking at him. A shame that the triangle is never solved though.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Radik

I'll just quote Mughi's explanation again here:

You really want to stretch this don't you. Ranka wasn't looking and was not responding to the salute means absolutely nothing to you. I really don't know what compelled you to believe that he was saluting both girls, given the very clear fact that Ranka was absolutely not responding to it (if you do not wish to believe the ship factor). Look, he was not saluting to her just as there would not have been any meaning whatsoever saluting to her.

Give me a fucking break, seriously.

Originally Posted by blewin

Just finished the last episode. The entire episode was visually and aurally confusing. The songs and the sound of the battle are too noisy, and the fighter jets and robots (as my bro said, they got a little fighting jet, then a bigger robot, and a giant robot!) look excessive, and the lights flashing around dizzy me.

This is Macross. If you seen DYRL or the original, you should expect music, valkyries and lots of space ships clashing. After all, what is a fleet battle without fleets and fighters?

But if lights and sounds cause you motion sickness, then perhaps Macross Frontier is not right for you. For the rest of us, its a wonderful, wonderful roller coaster ride...

- Tak