Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Britania has an institutionalised bondage fetish. Clearly, the nation is evil.

Also, Japan still has sakuradite. China will certainly be interested in helping them rebuild, though one may wonder what they'll ask in exchange...

The Chinese need house workers, looking at the life of the average Japanese, being a maid is a huge step up. Most of them are basically homeless.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Britania has an institutionalised bondage fetish. Clearly, the nation is evil.

That's pretty much how it works for fairytales; except usually, you use things like spiked shoulder pads and skull-motives. Leather is such a regular part of a villain's costume that it works, at least once it is translated into stories for children.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That's pretty much how it works for fairytales; except usually, you use things like spiked shoulder pads and skull-motives. Leather is such a regular part of a villain's costume that it works, at least once it is translated into stories for children.

The problem is that since Code Geass is not a children's show, I have connected the dots, and come to the conclusion that Lelouch has a bondage fetish, and he whipped Schneizel.

[LAngelo]

i feel used, i feel cheap, i feel sullied, i feel CRADERED*......in the words of david letterman.........too many reasons to believe lelouch is still alive, now my mind cant rest in pieces

[Nayim]

Hey guys, there are something bothers me all the time......
will CLAMP release CODE GEASS LAST ART.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The problem is that since Code Geass is not a children's show, I have connected the dots, and come to the conclusion that Lelouch has a bondage fetish, and he whipped Schneizel.

That's what Disney is for; to tone down or hide the sexual interpretations and dumb down the message to Good VS Evil.

And when I said "story for children", I mean stories within the CG universe. Sort of an imitation Vlad the Impaler.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by Utau

When was that? i lol'd

it'll be a long time till i re-watch the whole series again, still waiting for a certain group to finish theirs. Anyways

I believe it was from the episode after Kallen was captured, or the next one. At the beginning of the episode Lelouch was watching a screen with stats of his allies.

Here is the full picture.

Spoiler:

[Whitemoon648]

actually ending seems perfect.

1) Lulu = dead= increase lelouch's epicness.

2) Lulu= alive = happy ending .

So this was ended so that people can draw their own conclusion.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by Utau

No.
He lied to the OotBK when he was confronted. Naturally, Kallen will think she was played same goes for Ougi and the rest. Then, Lelouch's recent action was unacceptable and they have to oppose him because they thought Lelouch is an evil tyrant. I don't blame her for that, if Lelouch didn't give her hints that is. Schneizel (i never thought i'd miss typing his name again.. ) then continued to put a 'mask' infront of the OotBKs.

Well at that moment, yes. But as she walked away from him she heard him say "Live on, Kallen." When they met up again, she told him that she heard him say this, and wondered what she really means to him, and kissed him.
So unless those Intelligence stats are haunting her again, you'd think she'd realize that what he said was a lie to keep her alive.
At that point he should be back to the regular Lelouch in her eyes, and so there should be a lot of reasonable doubt regarding what Lelouch and Suzaku are up to, and why they are saying these things. Instead she sides with someone who obliterates nations with FLEIJA...

That's why unlike the rest of the Black Knights, I thought Kallen had a less convincing reason to side with Schneizel.

[C.A.]

Well I did a large pm to someone, I thought I shouldn't waste it. But there's no real need for it here anyway I guess. Most people should have realised the greatness that he is.

First I'll divide it into 3 parts:

1. What is Lelouch's plan?
2. Why do that to himself?
3. Why Suzaku to kill him?

1. What is Lelouch's plan?

Lelouch has these goals:

*Rid the world of evil by a means that will result in humanity having a future. Meaning people don't live being controlled or being threatened.
*Atone for the mistakes he has done in the past, death of Euphie etc.
*Destroy Geass that he knows of, meaning himself, he trusts C.C. to not bring about Geass anymore.

He found that the way Charles and Marriane were trying to do would result in a way that humans will no longer have future and the way Schneizel wanted to do will not bring true peace to the world. Forcing peace on people does not mean the people is happy. You can enforce and threaten them not to fight each other, but their feelings are supressed and they are not happy.

Lelouch wants to create a world where people will be happy for themselves.

2. Why do that to himself?

Lelouch knows that he must first get everyone to think the same, in a way that everyone wants to attain peace together as a free world.

To do that, he makes everyone in the world hate him, so much that nobody even cares about anything that happened before. He makes everyone think that he is the ultimate mastermind that caused the world all the death and destruction that has happened. Now everyone is thinking the same, that if he is dead the world will be free from evil and they will be free.

Indeed he does that, he gets himself killed and from the instance the world found themselves free from that clutches of a great evil and their new future begins.

3. Why Suzaku to kill him?

Lelouch in order to get Suzaku on his side, as he no longer has anyone besides C.C. to approach, finds that he must make a deal with Suzaku to get his help.

That deal is to allow Suzaku to avenge for Euphie's death and the grief he has brought to the world. It is also to end the last of the Geass.

And Suzaku must kill him, so that the plan will work and the world will be saved. At the moment he killed him, he truly realised how great a person Lelouch is and the sacrifices he has made. Lelouch is the one man who has suffered the most in the world. And he killed him no longer because of revenge, he killed him to end his suffering and with that bring peace to the world.

----------

You see, Lelouch tied everything together and with his death solves everything, attoning for everything, ends everything and brings forth a new future for the world.

[Whitemoon648]

@ C.A.

Suzaku was a man of high moral. He wouldnt kill for revenge. Even Before Lulu banished C.C., He ( suzaku) said something like " yufi and shirly believed him , so he should too".

Thus he was going to help him anyways.

Just my personal opinion.

So Suzaku didnt have any more motivation for revenge. I dont think he ever did. He just hated Lulu at the begining ( kinda).

[xx_At]

so guys, i've been thinking, and i've got just one more theory to why lelouch may be alive:
right, we all know by know that C.C's last line was
“The Power of Kings, called Geass, will make make people lonely. I suppose that wasn't quite true... Right Lelouch?"
See i duno if anyone thought of this yet, but CC might be referring to HERSELF and not particularly lulu. Cuz she did hav a geass herself b4, she became immortal and thus started her lonely journey.....

So if CC says that she's finally not alone anymore, who else but Lulu must be with her???

[Auron Requies]

The Ending made me think: All Hail Lelouch indeed.

OK, here's my thought.

I gave this ending a 9/10, because I love Code Geass and how this anime managed to reboot my love towards anime. However, Season 2, as we all know, had some production problems due to its timeslot (I still don't understand how the timeslot can effect the project, but wte) but the script since then felt rushed. It didn't truly give me that same feel I had when the Euphemia Massacre scene was showned. There were many awesome moments in R2, but not as awesome as they were in Season 1 (R1?).

Anyways, I figured Requiem would have something to do with death, and it was true: The death of Lelouch. It was sad to know that this guy was going to die, and that his plan was for the better of the world. However, a lot of us love this guy so much, we wished he hadn't die, and I'll admit, I'm one of them. The thing is, I agree, that the ending feels too left out, and I'm only hoping (big stress on the hoping) that Sunrise/Taniguchi find it in there hearts to give Code Geass a season 3 or some form of continuity to it. I say this because, as mentioned already on this topic, there are soooo many things that need explaining and ideas I've thought of:

- Jeremiah using his Geass Cancellor on Anya, and what did he find? Well it would be obvious he probably found some memory based on Marianna and her time as Anya if she was in her head, but what impact did it have on him and the story? And I believe he adopted Anya, I find it cute that he could be a father figure lol.

- Gilford being alive is a meh for me, but why the glasses? I don't think he's blind, if he was, he wouldn't have been running with his rifle. I'm guessing his eye got stuffed up so he needed some protection.

-Why is Lyold called the "Earl of Pudding?" or wte anyway? I mean, maybe its meant to be comical, but Lasharta says it so seriously, so-who knows?

- We can figure what the "Code" is in Code Geass, but simply saying "It makes you immortal" just doesn't really cut it for me. In season 1 they gave out so much information about the geass and its properties which I was satisfied with. In season 2, as I said, it feels all so rushed. And how did the power of Code Geass come into contact with the world? I mean we only see flash backs of that ancient civilisation all containing girls with codes on there head, but what does that imply? Not enough.

- C.C's real name, we never get to know what it is. Speaking of which, we never really know V.V's real name to (oh come on, as if he would really be known as V.V Di Britannia, too many frigging letters in his name! XD) and do people whoever receive the code, change there name to *first letter twice/first letter + 2*? Or was it something only the Charles plan decided to do to hide there identity?

-Why hasn't the Knight of Nine, Nonette, made a proper introduction in the series? Other then saying the shows cast is already big. If it really was that, they could have done what they did to Dorethea(Knight Of 4) Monica (Knight Of 12) but then again, it would just piss the audience off.

- Does the geass effect continue even after the death of Lelouch? When Mao died, his Geass deactivated, and disappeared from his eyes.

-Who else knew of the plan? C.C, Suzaku and Jeremiah are a definate, but what about Lyold, Cecile, and Sayako? Is this why they were loyal? Or were (Lyold/Cecile) loyal simply because he was in power? I think the answer is obvious, but I never got why Schniezel just easiely left them to Lelouch.

-What happened to Kanon? (Should I leave this to the Yaoi fangirls? lol)

-Imagine what the whole world would think when they just gang up on Zero to find Suzaku under the mask?

-What did Lelouch do during the 2 month timeskip? Other then getting the whole world to hate him.

-A season 3 idea. Years later, war breaks out again. C.C pulls a "Demon is Born" episode to a new main character just like she did to Lelouch. I say this because she's the only Code character left to spread geass out. Is there any other? Are all the geassed wiped out?

And now, the one everyone has been asking. 99th Emperor Lelouch Vi Brittania: Death or Alive? Anime, is anime. They've proven that they can (or at least Sunrise has) revive whoever the hell they want simply by just making them appear there (Gundam 00: OH HALLOW THERE PATRICK!). Lelouch being alive would make me happy, but its most likely that he's dead. The whole cart driver being Lelouch, that was what I thought at first, but C.C was talking to the air, she never even moved her head so I was like 'damn'. I would have been very satisfied if they showed a camera shot of the driver and he gave that lelouch-ish grin. THAT would be my ideal ending. Not some damn crane.

The thing is, Lelouch, being the genius he is, should know that peace will only last for an amount of time until the fighting starts again. We know he has left the world to Suzaku, but we all know he would only hold the fort for so long. And what is C.C going to do now? She's happy, great. But still wanting to be alive? She'll need something to do. And I'm starting to think, she would only be alive for one thing: Lelouch. Maybe he is in the world of C, who knows? And hey, we've seen his body bleed and his eyes close, but like I said, they've shown the properties of Geass, NOT the Code. V.V was still alive after he gave the code, that Nun was bleeding, so she could have committed suicide right after sending her code. And maybe, Lelouch already received the Code, or a Code.

But this is just wishful thinking. For now, if there is a season 3 I'm in for another adventure. But if the book is closed, its closed, no matter how many mysteries are unresolved. I will however say: ALL HAIL LELOUCH.

[CHANGE]

Someone may have already mentioned this but I can't read the whole thread.

Doesn't the fact that Nunally was able to see Lelouch 's past when she touched his hand seem like the power CC had when she touched Suzaku in series 1? Wouldn't this imply that maybe he really does have the code and is immortal? Maybe that's reaching...

Anyway good series, I liked this ending better than Macross F... don't know what I'm going to watch now .

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Auron Requies

- Jeremiah using his Geass Cancellor on Anya, and what did he find? Well it would be obvious he probably found some memory based on Marianna and her time as Anya if she was in her head, but what impact did it have on him and the story? And I believe he adopted Anya, I find it cute that he could be a father figure lol.

Or a lolicon.

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Or a lolicon.

LoL Thats why Xinge didn't have enough screentime in the epilouge. He went QQ since everyone prefers him, and would make a better one at that :]

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by CHANGE

Someone may have already mentioned this but I can't read the whole thread.

Doesn't the fact that Nunally was able to see Lelouch 's past when she touched his hand seem like the power CC had when she touched Suzaku in series 1? Wouldn't this imply that maybe he really does have the code and is immortal? Maybe that's reaching...

Anyway good series, I liked this ending better than Macross F... don't know what I'm going to watch now .

I didnt even notice that but Yeah! thats true

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by CHANGE

Someone may have already mentioned this but I can't read the whole thread.

Doesn't the fact that Nunally was able to see Lelouch 's past when she touched his hand seem like the power CC had when she touched Suzaku in series 1? Wouldn't this imply that maybe he really does have the code and is immortal? Maybe that's reaching...

Anyway good series, I liked this ending better than Macross F... don't know what I'm going to watch now .

No, its been said earlier, that is Nunnally's understanding touch.

[Sol Falling]

:P I really can't believe the amount of delusional shipping going on in this thread. There've been some good, intelligent posts in these past couple pages about why Lelouch's death was well and truly fitting--far and beyond the life and happiness of any one person. He made his sacrifice for each and every person he had ever known--promises to one lonely soul can't even compare (or rather, to say that he hadn't fulfilled it is utter selfishness).

After discovering the truth behind his father and mother, Lelouch decided to offer the world a chance at happiness, broken by loss and the weight of his own sins. At the cost of his own life, he would redeem himself to his friend Suzaku, and atone for the meaningless deaths whose fault he bore (Euphemia, Shirley). At the same time, he would curse Suzaku with his mask for all time--a mask soaked in the blood of others, and now his own. As has been said, there were other solutions: Lelouch didn't have to pay for his actions, and the chance his life bought will be fleeting. Charles, Schniezel, and Nunally, each were seeking their own future, and each could have bought peace for another price. He died, however, because this was his story. Lelouch left the world accompanied by the tears of many; bearing the sins of the world, he lied til the last.

This ending was great. Lelouch, I forgive you. For all the tomorrows you crushed in your arrogance, you left a brighter one in the end. I was a fool to think you'd forsaken Shirley. No, what you'd forsaken was your own happiness. But you still treasured it to the end.

"The morning will come. Up till now, I didn't know what I came here for. But maybe I came to put an end to something. Even though there are a lot of things you can't forget, and a lot of sad things too, the morning will still come, right? So there's no need to overdo it by bearing them in your heart."

You looked so peaceful as you closed your eyes. As if you had done what you had come to do. As if you could finally turn to your place of rest. So rest. Rest in peace. Morning has come.

[mechalord]

If there is a season 3... no new main character. I don't like when they do that.

If there is an S3 it will take place a short period of time after R2. A few months to a few years later... 6 months to 2 years.

A new main character would equal a Code Geass spinoff series and not really a third season.


Yeah, they left too many things unanswered. In shows like this they will delve deep into the supernatural/alien origins on which the series is based upon before they end it.

Code Geass never went into Geass.

The amount of surviving characters and the "hints" that Lelouch is alive.... points to the production team leaving themselves a way to continue the series but still provide an adequate ending to the series even if it doesn't continue.

It also seems like they were messing around with the survivor list up until the last second. Sayoko and Xingke were missing from the wedding picture and from many ending shots. They could have been dead in many drafts of the ending only for them to survive at the last second and be hastily included before they wrapped up.

Xingke's absence in the epilogue really, really stands out ... since Tianzi is featured so prominantly and XIngke is the guy who promised to watch over her and he's missing.


------------------------

By the way. Tianzi and Kaguya are both secretary generals in the UFN, I believe. The picture in Kallen's boad is of Gino, Minami, and Tianzi hanging out. Gino may be Brittanias rep in the organization for all we know.