2012-10-21, 22:32 | Link #61 | |
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I also find it hard to believe that the aforementioned massacre scene was intended to be so dark as to lose all detail (we're talking dark to the point of, if you hadn't read the manga, you'd have no idea what was happening). Do you honestly think that those stuttering flashes are intentional? |
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2012-10-21, 22:41 | Link #62 | |
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And yes, I have seen that picture. And I have said over and over again that it is the norm back then. If you look at the cels of other 90s series you would see that the cels are also brighter than whatever was aired on TV. So NO, this wasn't a fuck-up speficially made by Nippon. In fact, I'm interested in hearing your explanation on how you can possibly think that such an experienced director working on one of the top-rating series at the time could have made such an elementary mistake. Try again Toto F21. My opinion of the episode: Coming from the excellent episode 51, 52 is crap through and through. Shitty animation, awful art (Silva looks like some Chinese dog), so-so music placement, slow pacing of the first half and too much filler content to pad the episode and to dumb down the content. 1999 shouldn't even be compared to this. 4/10. Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-10-21 at 22:53. |
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2012-10-21, 22:56 | Link #63 | |
cho~ kakkoii
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That said, the new version is managing to capture the interest of a lot of viewers, so I would like to think it's not without merit. If you don't agree, that's perfectly fine, but please try to channel your disagreement in a manner that improve the overall discussion.
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2012-10-21, 23:01 | Link #65 |
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Look, I never intended this to turn into an argument. All I'm presenting are the facts:
a) Nippon Animation's Hunter x Hunter is unusually dark; even when compared to its contemporaries. That is no a "stylistic choice". b) Nippon Animation has instances of scenes constantly flashing and animation stuttering. That is not a "stylistic choice". You may not have heard people complain of such things, but I have. It was first brought to my attention only a few months ago, in fact. As a fellow Hunter x Hunter fan, you should agree that Nippon Animation's adaptation isn't perfect, just as Madhouse's is far from perfect. But there are things Madhouse just does better (and vice versa). One of those things is making sure the finished product maintains consistent quality. |
2012-10-21, 23:02 | Link #66 | |
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It's ironic how this fight was so much better animated and choreographed years ago. But then again, Nippon used some big names for this one back then. And glad to see more and more people are onto "him". I just hope they won't punish anyone else for it. |
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2012-10-21, 23:07 | Link #67 | |
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I don't see much problem with the post with you quoted, however. Yes, it was sarcastic, is sarcasm not allowed here now? My intent was not to be aggressive but to indicate how I believe F21's claim to be absurd while at the same time giving chance that she might possibly on to something. (Otherwise I would have said, "You're wrong.") Also when I said "I'm a fan for a decade now" I was not trying to say that "I know better than you." I literally meant that it was my first time hearing it. You see, the crux of F21's argument later is that it's "easy to deduce." Well if it's so easy to deduce then believe me I would have heard of it. I haven't. That's the point. |
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2012-10-21, 23:18 | Link #69 | |
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Rurouni Kenshin OVA is darker than Yuyu Hakusho, isn't this an stylistic choice? Yuyu Hakusho was darker than Card Captor Sakura, was this a mistake as well? Card Captor Sakura was darker than Akazukin Cha Cha, what of it? What is dark enough, what is "too dark"? I've asked you over and over again to explain how you can possibly think that an experienced director who just came from doing one of the most critically-acclaimed OVAs and was then working on one of the top-rating series at the time could have made such an elementary mistake. This is a big claim. Back it up. Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-10-21 at 23:26. Reason: You are still not getting it. STOP making it sound so personal. STOP cursing. |
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2012-10-21, 23:36 | Link #70 | ||||
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Not being able to see what's happening.
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It was good. I would agree with you that the fight scene fell flat if it wasn't for the fact that it was ALMOST IDENTICAL to Nippon Animation's. As mentioned, time and time again, the ONLY difference was how dark Nippon Animation's was and I would be willing to bet a hell of a lot that that was not a stylistic choice. The pitch black massacre at the auction was not a stylistic choice. The animation stuttering and SEIZURE-INDUCING FLASHING was not a stylistic choice. |
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2012-10-22, 00:10 | Link #71 | |||
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Cool, but I disgaree.
We saw what was happening clearly enough and most fans agree. Actually your opinion is the clear minority here (or should I say ---- rarity). Everyone else found no problems with this so I really think it's not a "fact." Quote:
Nippon Animation may not have made the most popular or "best quality" animes. But that does not automatically imply that they fucked-up something as basic as series composition for HxH. That's quite a quantum leap you made. You need more facts before you make this claim because one does not necessarily imply the other. Quote:
May I also know how it is a "fuck up" in the first place? I thought I knew but it's kind of vague now. Did they fuck just the dark scene up? But you brought-up Machi and Nobunaga so I thought you were referring to the composition of the series as a whole. If you're referring to just the scene in York Shin - you might see it that way and it's cool, but let me point-out that 99% of people who have seen the 1999 series don't think the same. In fact it was never a problem until, coincidentally, the last episode was aired or close to airing. For the rest of the nine years I have been a fan ---- nope, never heard of it. Most people praised the dark approach of Nippon Animation. If you're referring to the series as a whole - they won't make this elementary mistake. No way. Furuhashi, Nippon Animation, Shueishia (who has so many experience in anime adaptations), Fuji TV and other experienced members of the anime staff involved. Nope. Quote:
The art is superior in 1999 as well. Danchou, Zeno and everyone else were drawn better. Silva looks especially ugly. But then again, 1999's design has always been far superior to 2011's. Music is much better in 1999. The orchestral "Requiem's Aranaea" (if i'm not mistaken) is too in-your-face and had no subtlety about it all. The Zoldyck theme isn't much better. In fact I was soooo relieved when they didn't use these in episode 51 and chose Lacrimosa and something else instead. Those were more fit for the mood. Other elements were better as well. There was greater sense of suspense when Danchou revealed his book and used Owl's ability. It fell flat and did not have much impact in 2011. The set-up of Zeno and Silva finding Danchou is also better in 1999. I also believe that the dark room set the mood much better, just like the Hisoka-Gon scene in the Hunter Exam. Anyway, that's my view on why I believe 1999 is much superior in the fight. The difference for me is like night and day. When we talk about the requiem it is close with 2011 winning, but not this time. 1999 = 11/10, 2011 = 4/10 |
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2012-10-22, 01:01 | Link #72 |
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Ok chikkychappy, we can agree to disagree as you see fit. I'll forgive the personal attacks and I'll forget all the generalizations and misdirection.
Here's the comparison again, if you missed it the first time. *Note - I am a fan of both series, old and new. I just think there is an abnormal amount of unnecessary criticism directed at the new series. Nippon Animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNH4zodURxc Madhouse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hTta0c4V30 Now tell me honestly, between these two scenes - why is one worthy of so much scorn, while the other is held as some paragon of atmosphere and direction? Madhouse's has faults, no one is denying that. But it's not bad. I've listed Nippon Animation's faults - the evidence you seek is within the above video, it also isn't bad. I respect your opinion, so please respect mine. |
2012-10-22, 01:31 | Link #73 | |
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But let me clarify that I did disrespect your opinion (well, not deliberately). Our whole debate circled around the claim that Nippon "fucked-up" with the dark room. This is a question of fact and I merely asked for evidences. (In fact you were the one who brought it up). After all, this is a HUGE claim; it is not proper to go around parading this as true with no evidence. (Even I have never made such a big factual claim against the 2011 series. Never.) As for the videos, I can't view them unfortunately because I'm at work. What of it? I have both episodes 52 and 62 (of 2011 and 1999) in my ipad though which I can view anytime. Is that what you want me to see? |
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2012-10-22, 01:46 | Link #75 | |
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2012-10-22, 01:53 | Link #76 | |
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I need to look at the actual episode before I comment. I also need to see examples from episode 62 itself. But again let me reiterate that no one had a problem with the lighting of the scene until today. On another note: I think that 2011 did the first auction attack better than 1999. But not because it was "too dark" in the 1999 anime or anything like that. I prefer Madhouse's version because they put the proper emphasis on the scene whereas Furuhashi just glossed over it. |
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2012-10-22, 02:00 | Link #78 |
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Dude, he's been stating his claim for several posts now....... That screenshot is in fact, a good example of what he is talking about.
And no, this is NOT me harping on the 1999 series, just stating a fact. Also I'm not Toto. Last edited by monir; 2012-10-22 at 02:35. Reason: portion of post edited for toning things down |
2012-10-22, 02:07 | Link #79 | ||
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I find it hilarious that whenever MH adds fillers users here praise them but at the same time they criticize Nippon's ones (even though they fit perfectly, e.g. when Kurapica says that Gon has his own objective or when Hisoka was pretty sure that Gon would make it to the next phase of the exam or the hilarious Leorio scene in episode 61 when Leorio took the phone and Kurapica hang up on him at that moment or when in episode 7 Kurapica wasn't shown as a coward like in the new anime or the manga or not showing Tonpa's true face, etc.). MH fillers for once weren't awful, ALTHOUGH they were there to hand-hold the viewer and explain some things explicitly. Still, they served no purpose story-wise (unlike 1999 ones).
1) Gon + Killua sceneIn short, 52nd episode was OK at best because of pointless fillers and cutting Leorio out (one of the best characters in HxH is being marginalized instead of the opposite and soon he will become a complete random). So basically, it was OK only because the rest was epic (no thanks to them but only because Togashi has given them such superb material). MH has shown again how incompetent their staff is. Quote:
In fact Nippon's animation is closer to the original. In MH's version he looks as if Kurapica had eaten his chocolates (plus Kanako Mitsuhashi did a great job portraying Killua's irritation). As for the manipulated guy, it would be pathetic if MH's version would lose again in the animation department so I don't see how it's even worth mentioning. It makes as much sense as comparing Kara no Kyoukai movies with Armored Trooper VOTOMS: Shining Heresy or Darkside Blues. As for not showing the headshot, it would be a waste of frames because of how insignificant this moment was (unlike the moment when Killua put the heart near the killer's body instead of crushing it). Quote:
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2012-10-22, 02:54 | Link #80 | |
cho~ kakkoii
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The main difference between this version and the 1999 in my opinion is the interpretation of the story. Nippon took more liberty at interpreting the story and wrote their script accordingly which didn't hesitate to add to it if they thought it would enhance the story. Madhouse, on the other hand, is very careful at strictly observing the manga at almost word for word. Mind you, they are also adding (filler), but not necessarily to add to the story as Nippon seemed to have done. The dark background setting, for one example, in the Nippon version has more to do with how that studio chose to interpret the story more than anything else.
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