(L) Innocent Venus

[Haruka-Kun]

I agree with Kuromitsu that Jin and Drake cooperation is a win-win situation. Jin has the knowledge and Drake have the resources. This is not new in anime. I have seen a lot to time where an 'knowledge-driven-scientist' would join the evil side just because the evil side have the resources for their 'experiments.' Well, Jin is technically not a scientist, but you get my point. Even though Jin may know all the secret to Sana's hidden 'power', but I doubt that he will get the most out of that 'power' if he did not join Drake.

About this betrayal things, I don't think that what Jin did is unforgiveable. He tried to kill Jo with a stab in the stomach, to me that does not seem unforgiveable. Reading the last few post really bring me back Gungrave (point to signature). Harry shot Brandon 4-5 times on the chest, one time on the left eye, which causes Brandon to fall to his death from a tall building. I mean that is much worse than what Jin did to Jo. But I never hated Harry; I even cry ( a lot ) at the end for both Harry and Brandon. From my point of view, Harry/Jin is not evil, they are just ambitious. And ambitious people is what make anime interesting

With just two eps left, if the director did a good job (they can kill off Jin if they want to ), Jin can be redemmable.

[Dernhelm]

for me it has always been: pardon a guy and feel sorry for him if he has done the unthinkable and condemnable because of a good reason. all the more so if he expresses remorse and guilt-filled regret. yet, ends always aren't t justified by the means that is why there has to be considerable punishment. don't forgive a guy if he has done a heartless crime with no reason to defend him. (even then he is still human with room for rehabilitation.) as you can see, i don't believe in the absolutist way of things.

my views on things have changed somewhat after a similar scenario occurred in Naruto when Sasuke turned coat and even almost killed Naruto. it was very graphic and a lot more violent than what Jin did to Jo. Sasuke's arm went through Naruto in the chest area where the heart or lungs are. had it not been for a thread of chance (not to mention his regeneration abilities), Naruto would most likely have been dead. but you see you could see in Sasuke's eyes that he genuinely desired his death. i really hated Sasuke's guts then, probably just as how you feel for Jin now Majek. but i've been reminded of Sasuke and his "sob story", and it's a very tragic one. one that's enough to fuel him to do these sorts of nasty things, as i later realized.

i can't really hate a person when they are being possessed by revenge and not being themselves, because it's not truly who they are.

[Majek]

so anyone seen ep 11 yet? I was kinda busy with Champions league so i'm still waiting.

[Guido]

Spoiler for episode 11:

The debate is over whether who ended up using who. Drake seems to have emerged the victor at betraying Jin first.

[Haruka-Kun]

Just watch eps 11. Need sub to really understand what they are saying. Eps 11 goes into more details about the connection between the piano and sana, and seem to give us more info on what exactly is venus (Sana). I think the most interesting part of the eps is the picture on the wall of Sana's father. The picture is exactly the ED picture (except with different people, and they don't wear any clothes ). But,

Spoiler:

the person that represent Jo is holding a knife and is stabing/pointing at Jin (well the person that represent Jin). I don't know if this is the foreshadowing of the ending or not. After watching eps 11, the chance of Jin turning 'nice' is about 1%. I don't know why my favorite character in anime either die very early or turn out to be insanely evil. It seem to be a pattern now.

[Niji]

With the fighting prowess Jin obviously has, he could have killed Jo easily. Several times, in other episodes, and certainly when he stabbed him with the knife in ep 10. I just dont take that he "missed" Jo's vital parts of the body.

I hope he reverts, I like him He was really sweet with Sana, many times. And several things from earlier episodes would not make sense, if he was bad to begin with. The Gladiator changing him is a very interesting idea, indeed. But I dont give up yet

[Majek]

Originally Posted by Niji

With the fighting prowess Jin obviously has, he could have killed Jo easily. Several times, in other episodes, and certainly when he stabbed him with the knife in ep 10. I just dont take that he "missed" Jo's vital parts of the body.

I hope he reverts, I like him He was really sweet with Sana, many times. And several things from earlier episodes would not make sense, if he was bad to begin with. The Gladiator changing him is a very interesting idea, indeed. But I dont give up yet

He couldn't kill him unless he'd do it by surprise. And he didn't miss he obviously wanted him to die the most painful death.

And what wouldn't make sense?

[evil-samurai]

Episode 11 was pretty good =) Alot of talking but still It didn't bore me like alot of shows do. There were a few of the switches from scene to scene that felt to sudden.. :/ I think they could of handel them better.

Sigh... Jin didn't Didn't in this episode Well I still hate Jin but I always thought it would be cool if they somehow.. keep Jin alive but still have him as the bad guy. Hey it could even add room for another season.. mabye.... ^^; Next time Jo has to beat up Jin & then save Sana. I guess he will get some help so it will be great to see other people fighting as well. One one of my biggest worries still is that they are going to try to squeeze alot and mabye a little to much for a last episode. Whatever they do I'm sure the Jin & Jo fight will be Interesting!

[Guido]

The penultimate episode was the most dialogue-driven and bear interesting topics of discussion, though I felt somewhat of an Anti-American theme on the message.

Sana is Venus...

Spoiler:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what Jin revealed is that the Seven Children were in fact cloned from Sana?

If that's the case, that would make them offspring to her, hence, why Sana is meant as the mother.

Another question: Was Sana's mother artificially inseminated?, or was Sana conceived the old-fashioned way?

I asked this question, surrounding all the project conducted with the utmost secrecy and military control. The children since being clones were genetically-engineered through vitro fertilization.

I was just wondering if Sana mostly lived her life as a test subject.

What I get is that according to Jin Drake's not what he seems regarding his current affiliation to the Freedom States.

Spoiler:

My assumption is that Drake's a warfare instigator to encourage global, competitive nations to run an armed race. The incentive is the possibilities earned by the Gladiator now that his researchers found the key to open the box.

With the mass manufacturing of the Gladiators the powerful states would have no choice but to seek him to provide them the new generation of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Why do I see a bit of Amschel Goldsmith on Drake? Would be because Drake's also just responding to what populations and governments around the world come to seek through war...

Jin, on the other hand, I could compare him to Takano.

Spoiler:

Since the beginning, Jin's not bound my sentimentalities and morals to use Sana and Jin in order to further steps to reach his goal.

I can safely discard he doesn't care about armed race and neither global domination.

He wants to open the doors of the future with his own hands, having attained the next step on the evolution of technology. The Gladiator's more than a military machine. A sentient being, that breaks the barrier between cybernetics and man to reach potentials that surpass the average human existence.

So, it turned fairly predictable to me that Jin bought some more time to live by appealing to Drake in order to allow him fight Jo, so that Drake can be witness to the potential Jo has recently achieved now that he has synch with the child within the Gladiator. b

Toraji and the Satsuma rebels are ought to make their move, but in any case that the writers choose to kill off Toraji at least the best they can do for the man is that he goes off in blazing glory, taking down most of the forces of the Freedom States or better yet- Drake himself.

Some feeling's working on me that chance be that the last episode would be focusing more on a Jin v.s. Jo showdown, but let's hope that Jo stands up to face Drake too.

[evil-samurai]

Originally Posted by Guido

Toraji and the Satsuma rebels are ought to make their move, but in any case that the writers choose to kill off Toraji at least the best they can do for the man is that he goes off in blazing glory, taking down most of the forces of the Freedom States or better yet- Drake himself.

Some feeling's working on me that chance be that the last episode would be focusing more on a Jin v.s. Jo showdown, but let's hope that Jo stands up to face Drake too.

What would be neat is if Jin gets Drake back! It was Jin's idea to face Jo but.. he was more or less had to come up with something since Drake found him out. Even if it means Jin Dieing but at the same time screwing Drake around I'd love it.

Having Toraji face Drake would be be great, but depending on what they do next episode I think I might be a little dissapointed if Jin doesn't get back at Drake So.. for Jin to get back at Drake and then for Toraji to kick his Drake's ass would be perfect.. but for how Toraji would die (if he does) I wouldn't know.. and! as for how Jin would to Die maybe.. at the hands of Toraji or mabye Jo.

[SilverChakra]

I am a little afraid that too much information and happenings will be squeezed into the last episode. There's still alot of questions that needs answers and alot of things have yet to be explained. Let's just hope there's a good solution for the last episode and I am really looking forward to it! Let's hope everything turns out alright

[Guido]

Spoiler for last episode:

1. There's a bit of background information about Jin's past shortly before he joined Phantom.

2. Jo and Jin let it all go with their respective Gladiators, achieving full Shinigami mode. However, Jin is eventually overwhelmed by the children's consciences experiencing in live their excruciating terror.
He's forced out of his Gladiator having been psychologically unbalanced in gravity.
Speculation: Seemingly Jin passed out, but I'm not sure whether he died, or his mind completely broke though his body continues to live. Whether any case Jo sheds tears for Jin to mean he's saying good-bye to his former team mate.

3. Toraji, Lenni, the Pirates, and the Satsuma front engage on full war against a battle fleet coming from overseas. Speculation: I must presume the fleet comes from the Freedom States, since in the previous two episodes Drake's shrewed politician tactics managed to convince the Prime Minister of Japan to hand control to the foreign nation.

4. Seven new Gladiators from the next generation have been manufactured and finished. Drake's piloting the color red one, which is sort of a Super Gladiator type.
His megalomaniac ego bursts out and plans to make use of the city as a test site, so that the world be witness to the power that he has achieved.
Speculation: I presume that all the other nations who are coveting for such warfare technology would have no choice but to seek Drake in order to have access to the new generation of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

5. It's now Jo vs Drake, but even in Shinigami mode Jo's not match for Drake, resulting Jo's Gladiator battered to scrap junk.

6. Speculation: Either Sana contacted Jo telepathically or he had visions about Sana. Sana at last makes contact with "her children", all of them sunk in the bowels of fear and despair. She apologizes to them all, and for their sake she chooses to become her mother to provide them all love and company.

Speculation: This event happened might have triggered a reaction on the Gladiator. Jo for very first time shows a fully emotional and angst look on his face, grieving with geniune sorrow and sadness and his tears non-stopping to stream.

[Haruka-Kun]

Eps 12 spoilers

Spoiler:

Jin die due to psychological unbalance (as mention by guido). I guess it because he try to force himself to reach Shinigami with his Gladiators. However, in his last moment, he seem to be redeem. Jin also talk a little about the first time he met Jo. This eps show that Jo still care about his ex-partner, no matter how badly he had been treated. Need the sub to really understand all of what he said to Jo at the end before he die. Jo cry. At the end, Jo is a loner again. Sana went with Toraji and Oryu and Gara. Drake is killed by Toraji. Even when Jo is all powerful, he was unable to kill Drake. It was kind of predictable in a way. But the way Jin die is unexpected. And the sad part is that Jo is all alone at the end. Overral the ending is for me. But I like this series alot, better than Jyo oh sei. I rate it 8/10

[ps3mania]

hmm... this seems a little out of place and maybe even a dumb question, but is there any plan to make a second season? I just found the ending (and the series) to be too short for such a great anime like this one.

[Niji]

WOW, they did a great job, wrapping it all up like that.

Still ya, my question too: When will we see the 2nd sequel

Spoiler:

There is plenty stuff to do that, be it as side stories, be it as following the occurances. I would like some sidestory giving more flesh to some stuff, like Sana's parents, how they could (or at least Dad) let their own children become mere fodder for the gladiators (in case they knew it, really need to rewatch all episodes). Story of Jin, and Jo would merit a side story too IMO (guess precursor would be better name - I totally want to hear more of Jo's story ).

But certainly following stories for ALL main chars what happens with satsuma now, will the foreign forces invade? Tons and tons of questions. Will there ever be a gladiator, now that the boys talk to Sana? etc etc.

9/10 from me

[Niji]

Originally Posted by Majek

And what wouldn't make sense?

Oh, sorry. A bit late to answer.

I have not rewatched all episodes, it just stroke me as odd. Jin was truely caring about Sana, of course that could just have been a ruse, but I didnt believe it just be one. He also was truely grateful to Jo, and did care somewhat about him, too. Also, I think he fought Phantom to protect Sana, he could just hand her over, and ask his price for her, if he would have been all bad by then.

Of course, in anime you can make everyone totally caring and then switch them to the black side, but some minor explanation should still be given. I just think, Jin was "too human" to be the total bad char he was depicted for a while. For example, I think in the knife scene, he did not really really want to kill Jo. Of course, he could kill him only by surprise, but that was there totally in that scene IMO. I think he *could* have killed him there if he really wanted, since Jo was not expecting it at all.

Ah, but it is moot to discuss things, neither side can really know, sometimes Just my impression, totally dont think that is the only possible one

[Muddle!]

Well I just finished episode twelve and overall this was a more enjoyable series than I thought it would be. However I just wish they went into more of the little details. The show could've definitly benefitted from more episodes.

Mainly I would like to know more about Jo who was basically just the angsty silent bishie (not that I have a problem with bishounen ). What made him join phantom in the first place anyway? A little more character development for him would have been nice. Also once it got to episode 9 the pace just felt to fast for me... but oh well I still thought this was a decent series in the end.

[Ori]

Somewhere along the line I just totally lost interest in this series. I really don't know why. It's a pretty good show even if Jin turned evil just like I predicted after watching about 4 episodes.

Oh well. I will try to get myself to finish watch this.

[evil-samurai]

Good ending to the show =) I wouldn't say its perfect but its alot better then half the endings that I've seen. Jin is still a bastard but they tried to show him more human.. in this episode then in the last couple where he was just power crazy. So though I still hate jin he is one interesting character.

Its a little sad seeing Jo go, though I thought it was really nice how the did the ending scene =) It was a fairly satisfying ending. I wouldn't say Jo is a loner in the end, sure he is going off on his own for now but he still has Sana, Toraji and all the others. I'd still see it as a Happy ending even though Jo has left Sana. Jo will be back to see everyone I dont feel sorry for Jin.. so it doesn't make me sad the way he went. (But in some.. way I can feel for him a little..) Would of liked to of seen a little more of everything! but since the show was only 12 episodes they couldn't help it.

I really wont a season 2 now! Dont think there is much chance for another season but it would be nice.

[SilverChakra]

Yaya!! Episode 12 is out, waiting for it to download ^__^ I ahve something to really look forward to for tomorrow..!!