AnimeSuki Forums

yinstro · 2004-08-25, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animizzle

Stupid that none of us thought of that untill now..

heh, i realized, as i said, as long as naruto lives he has a chance to get out and crush the world. But some people say that he wont die if naruto dies, or suffer some similar fate. soo hence the debate

Animizzle · 2004-08-25, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by yinstro

heh, i realized, as i said, as long as naruto lives he has a chance to get out and crush the world. But some people say that he wont die if naruto dies, or suffer some similar fate. soo hence the debate

true, that was wolfs opinion. But seeing as we have some solid facts. It's highly possible that this is the right conclusion and above all... it awnsers his question.
Rejoice, a finished debate!

Viperion · 2004-08-25, 07:10

hmm interesting thread.. exept some of them were way off topic..

i wonder some of ya don't take Orochs quote in consideration.

Since he mention that kyubis chakra are merging with Narutos Chakra.
IT seems for me that Naruto is draining Kyubis power.. like a vampyre..

and seems that kyubi were more or less don't have a choice to lend naruto power..
hell what do i know

but off course.. mibus theory is decent but theres som holes in it. well i don't exactly buy that kyubi is immortal. we all have seem other anime were mythological god can be killed. its like the Conan the barbarian would say .. "if it can bleed.. it can be killed".

And i'm sure that kyubi came from same "dimension" as gammabunta came from. and u can see the scars from gammas eye.

but off course.. its just theory

Shay · 2004-08-25, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viperion

its like the Conan the barbarian would say .. "if it can bleed.. it can be killed".

:

Did he say that In Conan aswell?

He says the same line In The Preditor.

He says "Ill be back" In quite a few movies also.

Viperion · 2004-08-25, 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shay

Did he say that In Conan aswell?

He says the same line In The Preditor.

He says "Ill be back" In quite a few movies also.

um.. no... it was in comics..

i haven't seen the conan the movie though..

worth a look?

Shay · 2004-08-25, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viperion

um.. no... it was in comics..

i haven't seen the conan the movie though..

worth a look?

Erm....Yeah I suppose so. Some bad acting but Its quite a good story.

Hunter · 2004-08-25, 13:32

I don't really know on what you base your opinion Wolf of Mibu but certainely not on the japanese mythology.

Firstly the youma aren't deities, they are just a particular kind of monster and they can of course be killed.

Then the fox isn't one of the strongest demon of the traditionnal japanese shinto mythology, even when he reach the age of a thousand years and thus obtains his 9th tails.

Given that you talk about Kimmoh kyubi Hakumen no Akko, Rokumen happi no Jaki and Yamata-no-Orochi as the 3 major plagues i suppose you refer to the O-moto Kyo, a sect created by Onisaburo Deguchi at the beginning of the 20th century (a sort of melting pot between Shintoism, neo-Shintosm, Christian tradition as well as some Japanese religious tradition) but if that so why do you talk of that as the japanese mythology?

Besides the Kyubi isn't a deity even in the O-moto Kyo, rather a living amalgame of bad thought.

In the end, the manga made pretty clear that the Kyubi's survival is connected with the life of Naruto when they first 'met' but especially when the Naruto was dying due to the blow of Kabuto.

FrostLich · 2004-08-25, 13:53

I only read like 2 pages so sorry if this obvious statement has alrdy been posted.

The nine tailed fox may be from japenese mythology and is supposibly immortal.

However,, kyubi from naruto is only based on this creature and does not neccessarily has to be exactly the same. Now some ppl can argue this point but heres a simple way to put it:

There are plenty of movies based on real incidents such as Black hawk down. Although it describes a general idea what the REAL ppl had to go through during that time, they did not actually do most of those events. Unneceessary action is added into real events in movies to make it more interesting and inorder to generate profits. Same as in a show or anything else. They change a popular character such as kyubi and use it in their own way. They will change it so that they will make money. Generally ppl hate a villian that can never die because thats just annoying. So the creators of Naruto decided to make him mortal.

Simple as that.

Shadamehr · 2004-08-25, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrostLich

I only read like 2 pages so sorry if this obvious statement has alrdy been posted.

Haha, could've at least read the one right above yours, it pretty much sums up everything.

peer · 2004-09-15, 06:49

Actually, I am going to suggest that Naruto cannot die of old age.

What is old age? As far as I am aware, within the human body, certain cells cease regeneration (or do not eventuate from thier progenitor (stem) cells), and over a sustained period of time, this can lead to visceral (organ) failure, and/or other things that result in death.

Anyway, we know that Kyuubi grants Naruto amazing regenerative capabilities - as seen when Naruto gets Kyuubified in any fight. The other thing we know, is that Naruto has very good latent regenerative capabilities as well. Often in the manga/anime a point has been made to show how amazingly quickly Naruto "heals" compared to normal people. I seem to remember this as being a byproduct of him carrying the Kyuubi around, but that could just be my interpretation.

If these two things are linked, than this is the work of Kyuubi, and it indicates that it is unlikely that Naruto will therefore succumb to the "disease" of old age. If they are not, and Narutos fast healing is a perk from all that training that he does, I would consider it unlikely that Kyuubi would let Naruto die from old age anyway. Judging from the "...so dark..." comment, once an old Naruto is on his deathbed and about to die, I am guessing Kyuubi would be able to regenerate Naruto completely anyway (back to full youth!).

Regarding the mortality of Kyuubi... He is always represented as being locked up in a cage, with a massive lock, within Naruto's consciousness. Maybe the whole point of the seal is that Kyuubi got sealed within Naruto, so if Naruto were to die, the, uh, soul... of Naruto would become the container that takes Kyuubi to death.

Animizzle · 2004-09-15, 11:40

Interesting analysis,

So Kabuto would also have certain degree of immortality?
It makes you think why Orochimaru dind't take over Naruto's body or presumably Kabuto's body.

Then again, those body's are not as good for learning Jutsu's as Sasuke's body.

Marlin · 2004-09-15, 12:58

Ehm, i think that Kyubi dies to when Naruto dies. If you have watched the episodes of Neji's father and the Head family, they discussed something about about the detestable seal that would dissapear after his death and he becoming a free man. So that the Country of the lighting would not notice the swap in body's of the head family and the branch family, and to preserve the hyuuga trumph card. ( so he takes all his secrets with him, in his grave)

Fei-san · 2004-09-15, 13:12

The Hyuuga Seal and The seal that sealed Kyuubi should work differently, no?

_Sin_ · 2004-09-15, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animizzle

It makes you think why Orochimaru dind't take over Naruto's body

Since Naruto's body already contains 2 souls I'd assume that if Oro was to take over Naruto's body he would have to deal with the Kyuubi and I don't think that Orochimaru's soul would prevail in front of the demon fox. That's just a guess though in case you didn't figure it out

PS: There is a question I'm itching to ask but it's slightly off topic: What'd happen if Naruto were to summon the Death God? He already has the (modified?) seal on his stomach* so would he be able to do it or would the Death God not take his soul? I'm saying that because I think that Naruto is a special case on this one.

* I just feel like adding this (it has nothing to do with what I wrote above so feel free to skip this part): Japanese people tend to think that the energy/powers of a human come from their stomach (AFAIK it's "Kiri" like in Harakiri where they commit suicide by piercing their a sword through their stomach) so it's no coincedence that the seal is locatad on Naruto's stomach. /End useless info

Animizzle · 2004-09-15, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin

Ehm, i think that Kyubi dies to when Naruto dies. If you have watched the episodes of Neji's father and the Head family, they discussed something about about the detestable seal that would dissapear after his death and he becoming a free man. So that the Country of the lighting would not notice the swap in body's of the head family and the branch family, and to preserve the hyuuga trumph card. ( so he takes all his secrets with him, in his grave)

er...your getting things mixed up.
They were talking about the branch familiy's seal...not naruto's seal

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Sin_

PS: There is a question I'm itching to ask but it's slightly off topic: What'd happen if Naruto were to summon the Death God? He already has the (modified?) seal on his stomach* so would he be able to do it or would the Death God not take his soul? I'm saying that because I think that Naruto is a special case on this one.

Good question, In the unlikely event Naruto will ever use that seal...the seal would probably alter in shape slightly, millions of possibilities here.
Anyway, since is strange and akward and just plain silly, it will never happen.
you just made sure of that

ToisianDragon · 2006-05-18, 21:49

Naruto's chances of dying of old age are either so low they don't bear thinking about or nonexistent. Kabuto doesn't qualify for the same deals - I'll touch on that in a moment.

"Old age" is caused in large part by your body's cells losing the ability to replicate themselves properly - which is affected by a part of your DNA called "telomeres." When a cell regenerates (heals or replicates) a small portion of the telomeres gets dropped from the ends of your DNA. Once the telomeres are short enough, your cells don't properly replicate, which leads to various "old farts' diseases" and old age itself.

When Tsunade utilizes her seal mark on her forehead to regenerate the damage caused by Orochimaru's attack, it is made quite clear that she lost several years off her life by doing so. Naruto, in contrast, despite the numerous times he's regenerated from just as bad (to hideously worse - see the battle between Naruto and Sasuke in the Valley) is never even so much as hinted to have the same limitation.

And here's where we touch on Kabuto - his regeneration is the same type as Tsunade's. Thus, he too is expending portions of his life expectancy when he repairs such damage. (As a sidenote, though - as Orochimaru's hench, he might have learned the body-swap jutsu, which would eliminate that issue.)

Kyuubi's "...so dark..." comment refers to the one thing that can really ruin Naruto's day - sudden, extensive, and fatal damage to Naruto's body, to the point that his regenerative abilities don't have the change to kick in before death. Had Tsunade not been there to keep him alive long enough to heal, and had Naruto not redirected Sasuke's Chidori in the Valley, he'd be one dead loudmouth.

*peers at above post*

I do tend to rant, don't I? Oh well. That's what forums are for, I guess.

As for the Shiki Fuuin...I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it wouldn't work for Naruto at all. Or if it did, then it's entirely likely that both his and the Kyuubi's soul would be sucked out along with whatever bastard he'd used it on and get eaten all together by the Death God. If he used it to seal someone into someone else like the Yondaime did, then it's a tossup as to whether the Death God would take both Naruto's soul and the Kyuubi's or only one. And then the question would be which soul got left behind?

Blizzer · 2006-05-19, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

Every time naruto is about to die, Kyubi saves his ass by giving him massive chakra and strenth.

Example when jiraiya threw him off the cliff, kyubi saved him by giving him the chakra to summon gama.

When Naruto was falling helpessly towards Oro's summon who was going to eat him in the forest of death, just before he was to die, naruto got kyubi'fied and saved himself.

"Are you saying that if you die, i am going to die as well? You have some nerve trying to blackmail me"

Kyubi said that to naruto when naruto first "met" him.

When naruto was dying during the kabuto fight, We saw a shot of kyubi in the dark askign himself "Why is it dark? why is it so dark?" He seemed almost worried.

My question is this ..... the 9 tails is a demon that never dies. It just keeps getting reborn over and over. Its immortal basically. You cant kill it.

That is why the 4th hokage couldnt just make a deal with the death god and kill kyubi. Because he couldnt kill him, he imprisoned him inside naruto with the seal.

So that brings up the obvious question .... If naruto dies .... kyubi is free.

If naruto dies, theres no way that kyubi is going to die as well. The worst that would happen is that he would return to his "alternate dimension'" or wherever kyubi usually is before he comes to earth.

So why in the hell does he care if naruto dies? Why does he help naruto when naruto is going to die? If naruto dies, he is no longer in prison. And even if naruto's death will send him back to his own "dimension" .... who cares, naruto is going to die sooner or later, so kyubi will be going back there regardless.

can't be bothered to read the rest of this pointless thread...

if Naruto dies the Kyuubi will too so its in the interest of saving himself
also when Naruto uses the Kyuubi chakra the Kyuubi gains a little control

wasn't there already a thread like this? -.-

tritoch · 2006-05-24, 23:58

How about a warped view?

What if Kyuubi appeared before Konoha sensing a great chakra from a newborn that *could* overpower kyuubi some day and that newborn is Naruto. Sensing this, The 4th sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto knowing that Kyuubi's chakra can be contained in Naruto since he has limitless chakra potential. Hoping some day that Naruto will surpass kyuubi's power and defeat it.

ha ha ha ha ha

Sorry for warping your head

That'd be cool.

Yellow Flash · 2006-06-12, 06:11

Kyuubi is helping Naruto because it was an order by Yondaime.

That's why Kyuubi told Sasuke he shouldn't hurt Naruto,
because Yondaime would appear and kill Sasuke.

MysticNinjaJay · 2006-06-12, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Kyuubi is helping Naruto because it was an order by Yondaime.

That's why Kyuubi told Sasuke he shouldn't hurt Naruto,
because Yondaime would appear and kill Sasuke.

Do you make these things up to be funny?

2004-09-15, 11:40	Link #191
Animizzle Cool as a Cucumber Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Holland	Interesting analysis, So Kabuto would also have certain degree of immortality? It makes you think why Orochimaru dind't take over Naruto's body or presumably Kabuto's body. Then again, those body's are not as good for learning Jutsu's as Sasuke's body. __________________ hm....

2006-05-18, 21:49	Link #196
ToisianDragon Junior Member Join Date: May 2006	re: old age and seals Naruto's chances of dying of old age are either so low they don't bear thinking about or nonexistent. Kabuto doesn't qualify for the same deals - I'll touch on that in a moment. "Old age" is caused in large part by your body's cells losing the ability to replicate themselves properly - which is affected by a part of your DNA called "telomeres." When a cell regenerates (heals or replicates) a small portion of the telomeres gets dropped from the ends of your DNA. Once the telomeres are short enough, your cells don't properly replicate, which leads to various "old farts' diseases" and old age itself. When Tsunade utilizes her seal mark on her forehead to regenerate the damage caused by Orochimaru's attack, it is made quite clear that she lost several years off her life by doing so. Naruto, in contrast, despite the numerous times he's regenerated from just as bad (to hideously worse - see the battle between Naruto and Sasuke in the Valley) is never even so much as hinted to have the same limitation. And here's where we touch on Kabuto - his regeneration is the same type as Tsunade's. Thus, he too is expending portions of his life expectancy when he repairs such damage. (As a sidenote, though - as Orochimaru's hench, he might have learned the body-swap jutsu, which would eliminate that issue.) Kyuubi's "...so dark..." comment refers to the one thing that can really ruin Naruto's day - sudden, extensive, and fatal damage to Naruto's body, to the point that his regenerative abilities don't have the change to kick in before death. Had Tsunade not been there to keep him alive long enough to heal, and had Naruto not redirected Sasuke's Chidori in the Valley, he'd be one dead loudmouth. peers at above post I do tend to rant, don't I? Oh well. That's what forums are for, I guess. As for the Shiki Fuuin...I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it wouldn't work for Naruto at all. Or if it did, then it's entirely likely that both his and the Kyuubi's soul would be sucked out along with whatever bastard he'd used it on and get eaten all together by the Death God. If he used it to seal someone into someone else like the Yondaime did, then it's a tossup as to whether the Death God would take both Naruto's soul and the Kyuubi's or only one. And then the question would be which soul got left behind?

2004-08-25, 07:10	Link #183
Viperion Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bergen in Norway	hmm interesting thread.. exept some of them were way off topic.. i wonder some of ya don't take Orochs quote in consideration. Since he mention that kyubis chakra are merging with Narutos Chakra. IT seems for me that Naruto is draining Kyubis power.. like a vampyre.. and seems that kyubi were more or less don't have a choice to lend naruto power.. hell what do i know but off course.. mibus theory is decent but theres som holes in it. well i don't exactly buy that kyubi is immortal. we all have seem other anime were mythological god can be killed. its like the Conan the barbarian would say .. "if it can bleed.. it can be killed". And i'm sure that kyubi came from same "dimension" as gammabunta came from. and u can see the scars from gammas eye. but off course.. its just theory

2004-08-25, 13:32	Link #187
Hunter Bubbly and super fun Join Date: May 2003 Location: Doesn't look like Kansas	I don't really know on what you base your opinion Wolf of Mibu but certainely not on the japanese mythology. Firstly the youma aren't deities, they are just a particular kind of monster and they can of course be killed. Then the fox isn't one of the strongest demon of the traditionnal japanese shinto mythology, even when he reach the age of a thousand years and thus obtains his 9th tails. Given that you talk about Kimmoh kyubi Hakumen no Akko, Rokumen happi no Jaki and Yamata-no-Orochi as the 3 major plagues i suppose you refer to the O-moto Kyo, a sect created by Onisaburo Deguchi at the beginning of the 20th century (a sort of melting pot between Shintoism, neo-Shintosm, Christian tradition as well as some Japanese religious tradition) but if that so why do you talk of that as the japanese mythology? Besides the Kyubi isn't a deity even in the O-moto Kyo, rather a living amalgame of bad thought. In the end, the manga made pretty clear that the Kyubi's survival is connected with the life of Naruto when they first 'met' but especially when the Naruto was dying due to the blow of Kabuto.

2004-08-25, 13:53	Link #188
FrostLich Member Join Date: Aug 2004	I only read like 2 pages so sorry if this obvious statement has alrdy been posted. The nine tailed fox may be from japenese mythology and is supposibly immortal. However,, kyubi from naruto is only based on this creature and does not neccessarily has to be exactly the same. Now some ppl can argue this point but heres a simple way to put it: There are plenty of movies based on real incidents such as Black hawk down. Although it describes a general idea what the REAL ppl had to go through during that time, they did not actually do most of those events. Unneceessary action is added into real events in movies to make it more interesting and inorder to generate profits. Same as in a show or anything else. They change a popular character such as kyubi and use it in their own way. They will change it so that they will make money. Generally ppl hate a villian that can never die because thats just annoying. So the creators of Naruto decided to make him mortal. Simple as that.

2004-09-15, 06:49	Link #190
peer Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	Actually, I am going to suggest that Naruto cannot die of old age. What is old age? As far as I am aware, within the human body, certain cells cease regeneration (or do not eventuate from thier progenitor (stem) cells), and over a sustained period of time, this can lead to visceral (organ) failure, and/or other things that result in death. Anyway, we know that Kyuubi grants Naruto amazing regenerative capabilities - as seen when Naruto gets Kyuubified in any fight. The other thing we know, is that Naruto has very good latent regenerative capabilities as well. Often in the manga/anime a point has been made to show how amazingly quickly Naruto "heals" compared to normal people. I seem to remember this as being a byproduct of him carrying the Kyuubi around, but that could just be my interpretation. If these two things are linked, than this is the work of Kyuubi, and it indicates that it is unlikely that Naruto will therefore succumb to the "disease" of old age. If they are not, and Narutos fast healing is a perk from all that training that he does, I would consider it unlikely that Kyuubi would let Naruto die from old age anyway. Judging from the "...so dark..." comment, once an old Naruto is on his deathbed and about to die, I am guessing Kyuubi would be able to regenerate Naruto completely anyway (back to full youth!). Regarding the mortality of Kyuubi... He is always represented as being locked up in a cage, with a massive lock, within Naruto's consciousness. Maybe the whole point of the seal is that Kyuubi got sealed within Naruto, so if Naruto were to die, the, uh, soul... of Naruto would become the container that takes Kyuubi to death.

2004-09-15, 12:58	Link #192
Marlin Sakura's so cute! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The Great open Sea!! off course Age: 40	Ehm, i think that Kyubi dies to when Naruto dies. If you have watched the episodes of Neji's father and the Head family, they discussed something about about the detestable seal that would dissapear after his death and he becoming a free man. So that the Country of the lighting would not notice the swap in body's of the head family and the branch family, and to preserve the hyuuga trumph card. ( so he takes all his secrets with him, in his grave)

2004-09-15, 13:12	Link #193
Fei-san Monkeykyou Sharingan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Schweden, ja! Age: 35	The Hyuuga Seal and The seal that sealed Kyuubi should work differently, no?

2006-05-24, 23:58	Link #198
tritoch 神 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chi-town	How about a warped view? What if Kyuubi appeared before Konoha sensing a great chakra from a newborn that could overpower kyuubi some day and that newborn is Naruto. Sensing this, The 4th sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto knowing that Kyuubi's chakra can be contained in Naruto since he has limitless chakra potential. Hoping some day that Naruto will surpass kyuubi's power and defeat it. ha ha ha ha ha Sorry for warping your head That'd be cool.

2006-06-12, 06:11	Link #199
Yellow Flash Banned Join Date: Dec 2005	Kyuubi is helping Naruto because it was an order by Yondaime. That's why Kyuubi told Sasuke he shouldn't hurt Naruto, because Yondaime would appear and kill Sasuke.