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GreyZone · 2014-02-08, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Well, what prompted me into saying that was Eren's line "Now, there's something I like about you..." That's... rather more than just "not creepy".

The translation I saw was actually "You were unnatural and kind of creepy" and "The way you are now is not that bad. You are just normal. A normal, sincere Person". So maybe you just catched a ErenXHistoria shipper as a translator? But please, PLEASE don't tell me that was the official translation by kodansha... because my opinion of them is already tainted enough.

EliteF22 · 2014-02-08, 22:29

Great....probably a year of this human revolution coming up. Perhaps this lady is the one who Dr. Jaeger used to create his titan serum. Thus, Eren inherited some of the memories from her DNA ala Assassin's Creed. For that to be plausible Dr. Jaeger knew who she was and how high up the society the titan secret went.

I think that was Dot Pixis talking with Erwin. The art is just so inconsistent and off.

Xero8420 · 2014-02-09, 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

The translation I saw was actually "You were unnatural and kind of creepy" and "The way you are now is not that bad. You are just normal. A normal, sincere Person". So maybe you just catched a ErenXHistoria shipper as a translator? But please, PLEASE don't tell me that was the official translation by kodansha... because my opinion of them is already tainted enough.

I smell Eren x Historia ship emerging, for real... xD

Mubyoshi · 2014-02-09, 23:27

Lol, Armin made that guy gay, hahahahaahaha. Eren and Historia looks nice, first time we ever get to see them actually talk to each other, if I remember correctly that is.

Avrorrange · 2014-02-11, 06:16

Want to know how the coup plays out.

zibi88 · 2014-02-11, 12:16

me wants to know more about warrior tribe... and what is going on with RBY team... ape titan... annie crystal....or eren training or remembering some lost memories... its all way better then infighting between humans (since it was some time before we last saw a titan fight)

since we went all this time to this point... and now its like going back towards the inner walls... then trying to get to the basmenet and learn some truth

it should be more easy if eren went alone with mikasa (less people easier to move around withouth beign noticed) since they know where the basement is (their house)... mikasa can protect eren... and eren might try to control the titans to get additional support...but nah lets create huge party hard to protect and go there into titan territory >_> (which mostly wont happen anytime soon with the whole coup... which wont take 1chaper to finish)

Vvisions · 2014-02-12, 06:02

Please take a time to read it all, it is a lot of ideas that came after reading the manga 54.

____________

Unknow Woman:
- Sorry Historia... It's already time. Forget all about me today, too... Until we can meet again. - she then puts her forehead on Historia's, something happen during this process, like somekind of shock or anything like that.

Hisotia then looks kinda lost while the woman leaves.

Historia:

- That woman... Who is she...? - she couldn't just remember what just happened.

____________

It is clear that the Unknow Woman has some special mind ability.

It is clear that both girls were closer than just "Who is that person? Never seen her before...", Historia apparently knewed at least that woman's name, they were some how close to each other.

One more important thing is that they've meet before, as far as the Unknow Woman was evaluating Historia's progress, on reading a book as complicated as that one, this said by herself (what is worth note/mention this part because, apparently the book contains some similar caracters to those Ymir can read, if the book is from a foreign leanguage or very old one, of course the Unknow Woman would recognize Historia's progress.)

____________

Apparently the Unknow Woman had the ability to not erase Historia's memories, but to block them until something unlock them back. What could be, of course, triggered by certain circuntancies, or simply when them meet again.

What we do know, is that inside that room, were only Eren and Historia, what we do know is that Historia were asleep and Eren too. What we do know, is that they had very little to no interaction up to this point.

Putting it all together, we can afirm that:

Some humans posses the ability to control, in a limited way, another's mind.

We can see this happening when Eren control titans too, and when the Ape Titan control minor titans (even though they seem to fear the Ape Titan instead of just being controled by it, as it was some kind of superior being, at least to those minor titans, that apparently were created/infected by it, that Reiner mention being divergent from regular titans for them cannot move at night.).

But what does matter is the mind interaction in this point.

After the experiment on Cp. 53, Eren is strongly thinking about his father, questioning himself about his father, then something happens.

I personally don't understood very well if Eren sees the image of that woman, if both of them kinda share a temporary conection, if both see each other in a visions, but is obvious that some mental connection happen at this time.

___________

Now comes my point: This women that we see in Cp. 53 - page 20, is related to Eren, maybe aunt, maybe older sister, maybe his original mother. She's obviously older than he is, them both share a mind conection of some sort.

To me this one woman is the same one we see interacting with Historia in Cp. 54.

Many people have questioned the differences between the character draws across the story progression, but one thing that haven't changed is Eren eyes. That being said, Eren's eyes and the one from the Unknow Woman are very similar, more than his own mother Carla.

Here we can see how they Look similar pay close attention to their eyes.
(Unknow Woman from Cp.53 and Cp. 54 plus Eren.)
(she kinda resembles Ymir too.)

Spoiler:

Even more, Eren shares with this Unknow Woman similar hair.

The last we heard from Griesha is that he was going to the inner walls, the woman on Cp. 53 looks like she's in a rich house. Eren and his family lived in a modest house, so it can't be just his old house.
_____________

Resuming: If Historia would remember of that Unknow Woman only when they meet again and the memories start to come when Eren and Historia were sleeping very close to each other, after Eren kinda stablishes a connection to that woman on a recent previous time, then this person must be close to appear in the series progression.

What comes to importance is the use of such ability.

In a point on the progress of history where the characters are questioning what the gonverment is really doing and it's real purposes.

In a point where Eren starts to asking himself about his memories.

What I believe is that this Unknow Woman, will help to solve this time-lapse problems Erens is having inside his own mind, clarifying many points.

During this arch, I believe they'll try to take up the gonverment, but probably failing at doing so, discovering that the gonverment have a major play in the whole titan situation, they'll have to flee, then discovering, probably, that the warrior tribe(s) were not their enemies, or at least had a very good reason for acting that way, making of this arch, something like the middle of the series.

And the reason have to do something with the Ape Titan, this one I believe we won't see soon, because it seems that even the powerful warriors tribe are concerned about it, while they think human civilization are just easy to finish, they have more heavy concerns about the Ape Titan or it's faction, that, I believe may turn out in the major and final villain of the series.

The primary source of where titans came from.

Probably before the end, there's going to be a huge siege at the inner walls when all humanity and warrior tribes may be put to the test aganst this ultimate enemy. That's something I'd like to see going on.

And thinking about the mind interaction going on, it comes to my mind that, using this ability, they could have used titans to build the wall using their bodies and hardening abilities.

And taking this into account, as Armin said before, I believe that probably those titans inside the wall, will get a walk soon...

Please I'd like to hear from you people what you think about it or if anything said here, could help to formulate any better developed idea.

(sorry for any english mistake, it is not my first leanguage and I'm far from master it.)

zibi88 · 2014-02-13, 02:29

but there is another similarity

Historia comes from a rich family but was made to live far away from the inner walls on some poor farm hidding

Eren if that woman is releated to him might come from rich people but was made to live far far away from the inner walls too

both are somehow connected to this person.. maybe she is the mother of Eren and Historia.... Grisha took eren with himself and adopted him with Carla just like what they did with mikasa

Eren doesnt remember that woman like historia becouse she manipulated the memory but as he awakened his titan power the coordinate power starts to kick in an slowly shows slights memory parts

What if the real coordinate is this woman and Grisha made that serum from her blood...which gave eren similar power as her (since that woman was kinda angry that historia wanted to be like her...a monster)

hard to tell... but maybe that woman is the "queen" since we saw the king at the very end of the chapter.... that woman has niece beed...expensive looking furniture and is feeling safe there (brushing hair with no fear in eyes)

but I wonder if she noticed that eren is looking at her or she felt a connection beign made... becouse the moment eren saw her she stopped brushing her hair and eyes opened more... thne next panel her expression changed a bit like now she was watching him.

I guess she might be the key to sort erens memories a bit and guide him in order for him to get to the basement.... or the bassement contains information about Erens biological mother and what she is and what he needs to do (maybe there is a safe zone with no titans and mikasa is needed to enter that place)

Other possibility is that the woman is the real Coordinate that the warrior tribe is looking for... since even they dont know how it looks like... maybe that woman escaped from the warrior tribe years ago... manipulated the titans with the coordinate powers in order to harden and create the walls... and so she hid in that place with more people pouring in (yamir said was in her titan form for like 60years.... so maybe this woman is even older than that 100y+)

but somehow I have a feeling that soon eren will have a memory flashback of that woman talking with historia... or will have a glance on the book (girl holding apple)... will tell what he saw...historia will remember that she used to read that book and both will start to think what does it mean... maybe historia will start to remember who that woman is and will talk with eren (so both will try to sort out the thing... making them come more close to each other...to miakasas fear :P)

Vvisions · 2014-02-14, 03:05

Let's take what WE DO KNOW first:

Yes, aging and time is a point very important in this history, even more when you have a time counter, counting years and stuff, when time is not relevant to the history it's never mentioned most of the time. But to what we do learned till now, is that regular titans do not age at all, titans shifter looks to not age too, but only while in titan form.

So a few characters can be very older than they may look.

The importance of this two points take it's value when we have the passage "To you in 2000 years."

We do know that the time of present history progression is Year 850, but we do not know what was before year 001, neither what made people reset the counting of the years.

But taking into account the information that we do know, we can then affirm that:

2000 years in the past, something important happened that will come up now.

2000 years in the future or when year 2000 comes, something important will happen.

(could also be: 2000 years are the life span of a titan, after that mankind would be free of them. ?)

We have some examples, one of them are the Sawney Bean Legend, that happened on a time much posterior to year 850, that being said, we cannot affirm in what year of "our" time they are, neither if there wasn't another kinds of tecnlogies lost or not in use by them, or for any kind of civilization outside the wall (people behind the walls believe they are the last, but that was never prooved right, as they seem ignorant to a lot of things of outside the wall).

It is mentioned that in the serum Eren's received, he would use Their "memories".

We have then, Eren's waking up from an apparently long dream, we do not know what was about his dream in the manga, but we see something in the animated series that turns out to be what happend in the fall of Wall Maria (we do not know if that is what he sees, kinda of a prediction dream or just, to us viewers oriented images indicating that something terrible will happen).

Of course Eren hadn't appeared from nowhere under that tree, as Mikasa had previously let him there, apparently, a few hours before. All probabilities turns out to indicate that he had a terrifying nightmare, a dream so deep that he had lost his time sense, obvioulsy we can afirm that in his dream, he already met Mikasa and that her hair was shortier than in the present (he could have been dreaming of the day they met).

____________

About the Unknow Woman:

I do not think that this Unknow Woman is somehow blood related to Historia due to their physological differences, but she looks like some mother-figure to Historia. But this woman may be related or possess good knowledge about the walls and the Cult.

And crossed trough my mind what you said about where Eren and his family were living before The Fall.

Griesha is a very respected person both in his field of work, also in his comunity due to his work when saving the people from a supposed plague. So he could have choosed to live a little closer to the inner walls.

Why then, would he choose to live so far from the inner walls, where life would be easier and safier?

As we can deduct that he was experimenting years before the Fall of Wall Maria, so we can affirm that:

1- He was closer to his experiments, being Wall maria the outermost Wall and titans the targets of this experimentation.
2- He was better located to hide his experiments, far from the important centers.
3- To protect Eren and the rest of his family from something (possibly protect Eren from being taken away due to his important conections or his important play on plausible future events, see more in a few lines down).
_________________________________

Now let's think about this:

Historia's importance to the history progression is based on the fact that she might be able to reveal the Walls Cult secrets, because she comes from an important bloodline related to them.

But she might personally know nothing about the Cult. So how could that work?

Now we see that she, as Eren, posses hidden memories, but if she wasn't teached by her family, who could have teachered her?

We can see that this Unknow Woman has advanced knowledge of some sort, could this woman know anything about the Cult that could come to light? Something that she told to Historia? Can she read the old leanguages?

Now, many people is mentioning that this Unknow Woman is related to the king somehow (then we could see the king sitting close to powerful people from the Walls Cult), if we think about it, and it turns out to be true, and if Eren is really related to her, then Eren might be related to the King aswell and the royal family.

Now, the importance of this is just HUGE!

Because if they're up against the King at this point of history, then it can be, that Eren has some kind of right to the throne, like a lost prince, or have a much important play on the events, legitiming the fall of the actual king, or at last not making of the Scounting Legion revolutionary-terrorist villains to the people of inside the walls.

And the MOST IMPORTANT of all: As knowledge is power, thus being given only to those with already some power. Being from a royal, or at least, very important blood heritage, Eren could demand ALL HIDDEN/LOST/FORBIDDEN knowledge about everything the Scounting Legion needs to know to fight the Titans and understand their nature and solve any mysteries left (even easier if he came to be related to the king himself).

___________

A thing I'd like to say too is about that strange man, acting weirdly with Armin.

He looks totally out of his mind, strangely resembling a titan filled with desire to have human food, we learned recently that at least a type of titans were humans before.

As we don't know so much of titan's nature, we do not posses yet any information of why they eat humans. We do know that they have an extreme compulsion for doing so, they do not possess sexual organs, so into their mind, they must feel something very strong and the only way to release this all is by "having" humans. So I can think that something related to this kind of thing, will come to light when we discover more about titans behavior.
____________

Another strange possibility is that titans are neutral into their natural way of acting, only acting against humans when commanded, but being possible to use them as tools to mankind too.

If they were to be atracted naturally by humans, then there should have been tons and tons of titans full time towards the wall, as we see on zombies movies. But they seemed to come in expressive numbers only after the gate was destroyed. Then, if titans are inside walls that protect mankind, and titans can be controlled, and some of them behave as innocent children (at least before starting to eat people), then it can be a possibility too, because basically they can be controlled as one wishes.

What seems to be true is that, there is some sort of faction/organization outside the walls aside the Warrior Tribe (that are at least inside Wall Maria, not outside of it as many have predicted).

And this faction may be the one whose the Ape Titan may belong (important to note that the Warrior Tribe possess already knowledge of the Ape Titan prior to his introduction, so they may know from where it comes and it's purposes), that is trying to keep mankind cornered, and this faction can be the one responsible for the continous behavior of titans trying to eat people, using them as weapons.

Of course that it is all just my personal opinion and by telling it here I wish to add something to others ideas and that help people come with innovative ideas.

(sorry for any english mistake, it is not my first leanguage and I'm far from master it.)

GreyZone · 2014-02-14, 04:15

Titan shifters do age though... see Reiner and Bertolt.

Kiltias · 2014-02-14, 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Titan shifters do age though... see Reiner and Bertolt.

Assuming they already were shifters in their flashback and please....tell me just when it took place as well.And what about Ymir?

GreyZone · 2014-02-14, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Assuming they already were shifters in their flashback and please....tell me just when it took place as well.And what about Ymir?

Well aside from the flashback we have the anime that showed them as kids. As for Ymir... we don't know how old she was when she "permanently turned into a titan". If she was still a kid back then, then it would make sense that the "titan form" stops the ageing process temporarily... though in Ymir's case that was a bit more than that.

Another possibility is that they continue to age until they are grown up, i.e. they can grow but not "grow old".

Vvisions · 2014-02-14, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Titan shifters do age though... see Reiner and Bertolt.

Maybe you haven't read with much attention what I said up there.

I previously said that we have indications that regular titans do not age, or age extremely slowly.

But we do know too, that Ymir spent around 60 years wandering around as a mindless titan, she doesn't look 60 years old though.

But we could see Eren taking the serum at some period after The Fall, but he did age and became a teenage as any average kid would.

We can see Reiner and Berthold as young kids too, but we know that they have turned in teenages too.

So we can learn that titan shifters may age as normal as any person does, even after receiving titan's power, but we can affirm based on Ymir experience, that WHILE IN TITAN'S FORM, one does NOT age, or at least age on severely slow pass.

The point is that we don't know exactly when Reiner and Berthold found the Mindless Ymir wandering around and had their friend ate, as they mention that when they first time turned into titans, they felt lost and took some time to recover their senses too, as did Ymir, that's why they don't blame her, for her killing act. It could have been 5 years before or even 60, when Ymir had just started to wander as a titan.

So, if they spent a long period while in their titan's form, they wouldn't age during this 5~60 years.

But the question is: How could Ymir spent 60 years as a titan and not run out of energy as happens to Eren? Why the other titans did not attack her as happened to the other titan shifters?

Titans are said to be indestructible, but we seen Eren's titans form, and Ymir too, be unable to recover after sustaining too much damage. The supposed death of the Smiling Titan happened this way too.

It is mentioned when they're fleeing on the giant trees, that if they don't find any water, they'll be lost. We can see too, that titans exhales too much steam and have a body extremely hot, indicating the burn of water/humidity.

We can deduct then, that titans may have some kind of water based "fuel".

IF it turns out to be true that titans require some level of humidity in their bodies, some sun light, and some high temperatures in order to their bodies to work well, and that several damage can kill a titan by making it's body unrecoverable, then me can deduct that there will have safier and more effective ways to fight titans by developing new tactics of combat and weapons, such as chemical weapons that would absorb water/humidty as salt (that Eren mentions being extremely valuable when Armin shows him the book of the world outside the walls).

And what would happen to titans on extremely cold places? Would them be able to recover as well as they do on normal/hot weathered places? Would them become inative? Would them just avoid to go to polar places?

And what about arid/dry/desert scenarios with no humidity or extremely low rates?

_______________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Well aside from the flashback we have the anime that showed them as kids. As for Ymir... we don't know how old she was when she "permanently turned into a titan". If she was still a kid back then, then it would make sense that the "titan form" stops the ageing process temporarily... though in Ymir's case that was a bit more than that.

Another possibility is that they continue to age until they are grown up, i.e. they can grow but not "grow old".

We know that she stole the Titan Power, for that reason the Warrior Tribe wants her dead.

Taking into account, I do not believe a kid would do something like that, it indicates that she was already grown up and was astute enough for such task, and maybe had some help for any kind of procedure.

We know too that she comes from a place where she is considered important, maybe a princess or queen that would indicate that she had already gorwn to at least some level more than a mere child.

The only possibility aside from the one she didn't aged, could be that she was even older, but her body recovered to a state of teenage during her wandering time, what I found quite unlikely, because there is too much emphasis on titans extremely long life, what would make of any human in this state basically immortal.

(sorry for any english mistake, it is not my first leanguage and I'm far from master it.)

GreyZone · 2014-02-14, 15:21

I understood it like this: Ymir is was somehow permanently turned into a titan, but was unable to turn back into a human (perhaps was actually absorbed by the titan body and turned into a "regular, dumb titan"). So she, essentially she be was not a human that became a titan shifter... but actually a titan that became a "human shifter", as she "stole" the human form of Berick, at least that is how I understood it.

zibi88 · 2014-02-14, 16:58

I was wondering... eren in his titan form via dream... said "father...had me" and they said he was in deep pain... maybe eren ate Grisha and thats why he was suffering but doesnt remember becouse as a titan he doesnt remember much

kinda by eating he would absorb the memory... and thats why he said to follow the memories

for now eren should meditate a bit and try to remember his memories... kinda try to solve them first becouse they stand in front of progress of mastering the power... as his mind is way too confused and too many questions which throws him off durring transformation

like in the fight with annie... he had her pinned down but he kept remembering stuff and lost focus and in the end got his ass kicked

the woman with her ability might be a clue which will lead to another one... kinda get all clues and you will unlock the real power... since eren knew how to change into titan even throught he never did that as he rememberd....so there might be knowledge in subconciousness of his (not aware of having it)

Well historia might know everything but that woman sealed those memories till they meet again... if she doesnt then maybe she knows the ancient language and will read the books with the truth.... other option is that she will say who she is and that she has right to get told the truth which she will pass to everyone she wants as she has the rights to do it :P

anyway I hope it wont focus too much on the whole coup and it will contain more memories of eren poping up or see RBY team and their status...

Vvisions · 2014-02-15, 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I understood it like this: Ymir is was somehow permanently turned into a titan, but was unable to turn back into a human (perhaps was actually absorbed by the titan body and turned into a "regular, dumb titan"). So she, essentially she be was not a human that became a titan shifter... but actually a titan that became a "human shifter", as she "stole" the human form of Berick, at least that is how I understood it.

It would be plausible if we had not already the information that Reiner provides by assumption when he asks Ymir how much time she did spent wandering and when they talk about Eren too, including themselves on the issue.

Apparently there is some time of adaptation/wandering when one shifts into titan for the first time. This is a normal thing, at least looks like a normal thing.

And to understand Ymir course of actions we have to consider this: She believes for her personal reasons, that the only way to get along in life is alone, by herself. Prior to Eren manifest his control over titan's power, she also said that there was no hope left for those inside the walls, thus believing that the only way to survive was by herself ways and outside the walls, by that we can affirm that she stole the Titan Power to her own benefits only, in order to survive in the giants field.

Even though any news can come soon, this is what we learned up to this point, and by all said till now, we can basically assume that she was an average human as anyone before the events that gave her titan's powers.

Plus, we would have a lot more of another regular titans reversing to a human state after eating people, there are tons of titans that already ate human but, to this point of the history we haven't heard from such cases yet, even less returning to a human state by merely eat humans, this hinting that the mere fact of eating a human, doesn't turn a titan back into a human.
Without saying, that if titans are weapons of mass destruction/the perfect natural enemy of mankind, if them could naturally turn to humans, it would be a big fail in the process/plan of mankind destruction/control.

____________________________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibi88

Spoiler:

Very interesting point!

We don't know nothing about Griesha after The Fall, we know only that he gave Eren the basement key after that, because when they're escaping, Eren didn't possess yet the key, but one day he appear with it without remembering how he got it. On the translation I've seen, during his flashbacks, Eren tells Griesha "Why are you acting so weirdly after mom's death?!" indicating that they've met at least a couple of times.

So, we don't know how things finished. Indee Eren could have killed his own father, matter of time to discover that.

Another interesting thing I've seen, was a page where RBY appear on top of a part of the Wall Maria, then they talk about if Ymir is sure that she wants to go with them, if she knows of what is going to happen to her if she keeps going with them.

They're heading to their home village apparently, and apparently this is located inside the walls.

But, as Reiner, Berthold and Annie, appear to have some special training both like normal humans and also in titan form, where inside the walls would they get this training? Where would them be able to shift into titans without anyone noticing? Where would they deshift and their steam be not noticiable?

I was wondering this, and to me, the answer came withl the introduction of the under cities, that have been used to almost nothing, apparently there are lots of it everywhere and in various sizes and depths.

And still talking about Ymir, I think she has a plan, for what she saw about Eren's new power, and she will try to convince the Warrior Tribe that there is a new way to solve the entire problem/conflict.

She is just way too much smart, to just walk to her demise like that.

If I found the image again I'll post it here.

(sorry for any english mistake, it is not my first leanguage)

GreyZone · 2014-02-15, 08:23

Did we see a titan devour a titan shifter though? No, we did not. So maybe if someone ate Reiner or Bertolt before they could transform, the titan that ate them would possibly turn back into a human (or rather a titan shifter).

zibi88 · 2014-02-15, 08:29

is it a early spoiler image of next chapter... or was it some bonus chapter in between chapters ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Did we see a titan devour a titan shifter though? No, we did not. So maybe if someone ate Reiner or Bertolt before they could transform, the titan that ate them would possibly turn back into a human (or rather a titan shifter).

nope we saw it... how titan yamir ate Berik (or how his name was cant remember XD)... in reiners and bertolts flashback, it was in the same chapter where yamir revealed that she wandered outside the walls for 60years before she regained her human body again (which happened after she ate a titan-shifter)

So apperently when titan eats another titan-shifter they will regain their human mind... maybe titan shifters posses some immunity to the titanization process that the ape monkey is using (im kinda worried that he might use this to turn mikasa, armin, sasha ect into mindless titans.... or maybe Grisha was injecting people with a serum that gives them immunity to the effects but he couldnt give it to everyone (mikasa could have it as he was visiting them often)

we still dont know what are the titans and what is the whole process anyway.... I mean the titans work only in daylight dont attack animals...kinda like plants... so maybe titan power comes from the nature element flowers, earth, air, water, fire... as their bodies have bones, flesh yet they are very hot..... and we still dont know why is there allways a lighting when they transform ^^, besides when eren saved mikasa and armin from the canonball there inside his rib cage has grown a small flower... which might point towars nature side

the ape titan is an exeption as he can turn humans into titans which can operate at night but we can notice that normal titans dont like the ape-made ones as we can see one of them suddenly attacking the ape made one its like there is something different.... maybe all of them were titan-shifters but like eren in past are locked in their dream-worlds where they forget about the real world hardships and follow the instincts and ape commands

we have to learn what kind of work Grisha was doing with the whole plague cure...maybe the cure is generally the titanpower but that power was kept inactive like in eren and it needs some rules made to make it work.... what if reiners, annies, bertolts parents were victims of the plague and it was Grisha who cured them... and that power got passed to children who were able to activate it... but maybe becouse of the inner city bastards greed their parents died and they seek revenge that they forgot about the poor and the very poor people and let them just die

for now we can just speculate and create theorys about it :P

Breimoon · 2014-02-15, 09:30

i think that the titans made from the ape ones used the prototype serum to have them keep their mind and that is why they can work in the dark, they are incomplete titan shifters. Eren either has the completed one or his father had him eat a titan shifter.

Vvisions · 2014-02-16, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Did we see a titan devour a titan shifter though? No, we did not. So maybe if someone ate Reiner or Bertolt before they could transform, the titan that ate them would possibly turn back into a human (or rather a titan shifter).

I have to disagree with you, because we do see a titan eating Eren, the main difference in this point is that he used his titan's power to survive.

What I believe to be a big differential is that, back then, when Reiner and Berlthold were traveling with his friend, that was eaten by Ymir, they did not have yet, the power to shift into titans.

I can deduct that because: They were very young, they were attacked by a titan and did not fight back, and don't forget that, they call themvelves WARRIORS, if they have could, they WOULD have fight back!

THERE IS AN IMMENSE emphasys on surviving into this history, the fear of death... They would have done everything they could in order to survive, even more when they are having his friend being eaten alive in front of them.

So, all indicatives, points that, at least in this oportunity, both Reiner and Berthold couldn't shift into titans, by deduction, neither his friend that just stood there and died.

Do not forget to take into account, that Reiner uses his titan to save Berthold on the present events, so, if he could have saved his old friend, he would have done so back then too.
_____

Do not forget also, that Ymir STOLE this power, she from a biological point of view, was as normal as anyone, but due to some kind of procedure became a titan.

We can assume the same is true to Reiner, Berthold, Eren, Annie and any other one, even they young poor friend, that meaning: All of them, were normal people, prior to receive their titan powers. And if Reiner, Berthold and friend, did not had titan power, I don't see how your argument could be valid.

Don't forget too, that Reiner asks Ymir about her wandering time, and during their dialogue we have indicatives that, this part of losing consciousness, is part of the process when shifting for the first (or few first) time, they even include Eren into this subject, saying the same happened to him. That's why Reiner is comprehensible(?) about Ymir deed of killing his friend, because that nightmare, he felt on his own skin too. Nothing is said about the need of eat a human/titan-shifter to recover their consciousness.

Until we have EVIDENCES that there are some specific exceptions where one just borns with titan powers in a human condition, I don't think we should consider that any young kids can shift into titans or are given this powers just without a purpose.

Because even RBA had a purpuse when using their titan forms, and their titan form fits precisely their roles and needs into their plan.

PD: We learned from Cp. 51 that the titan body assimilates the normal human body in normal conditions. What happens to Eren and other titan shifters, is that something stops the process pefore they have their full body assimilated, but when he exceeds his limits, the assimilation goes further, sometimes being really hard to separate him from his titan body. So we cannot just say that one titan-shifter, just turns titan, and then shifts back to a human state, what we can affirm is that they have a controlled assimilatation state, but the pilot remains a human, the major point is the mind condition to control the titan body, when one lost control over mind for some reason (see Eren multiple times), the titan body acts wildly.

I really don't see how eating or not eating people would interfer into this process, as obviously, the pilot had always been there (in titan-shifter case), but couldn't control the titan body, as of matter to get out from the titan body volunteer, the pilot has to be knowing what he's doing.

I would bet, that a trained and prepared mind would be of much more impact to the pilot that anything else, see Eren cases when he loses his focus, things start just to go worse and worse, even his titan body becomes rubbish.

2014-02-12, 06:02	Link #2107
Vvisions Member Join Date: Feb 2014	Please take a time to read it all, it is a lot of ideas that came after reading the manga 54. ____________ Unknow Woman: - Sorry Historia... It's already time. Forget all about me today, too... Until we can meet again. - she then puts her forehead on Historia's, something happen during this process, like somekind of shock or anything like that. Hisotia then looks kinda lost while the woman leaves. Historia: - That woman... Who is she...? - she couldn't just remember what just happened. ____________ It is clear that the Unknow Woman has some special mind ability. It is clear that both girls were closer than just "Who is that person? Never seen her before...", Historia apparently knewed at least that woman's name, they were some how close to each other. One more important thing is that they've meet before, as far as the Unknow Woman was evaluating Historia's progress, on reading a book as complicated as that one, this said by herself (what is worth note/mention this part because, apparently the book contains some similar caracters to those Ymir can read, if the book is from a foreign leanguage or very old one, of course the Unknow Woman would recognize Historia's progress.) ____________ Apparently the Unknow Woman had the ability to not erase Historia's memories, but to block them until something unlock them back. What could be, of course, triggered by certain circuntancies, or simply when them meet again. What we do know, is that inside that room, were only Eren and Historia, what we do know is that Historia were asleep and Eren too. What we do know, is that they had very little to no interaction up to this point. Putting it all together, we can afirm that: Some humans posses the ability to control, in a limited way, another's mind. We can see this happening when Eren control titans too, and when the Ape Titan control minor titans (even though they seem to fear the Ape Titan instead of just being controled by it, as it was some kind of superior being, at least to those minor titans, that apparently were created/infected by it, that Reiner mention being divergent from regular titans for them cannot move at night.). But what does matter is the mind interaction in this point. After the experiment on Cp. 53, Eren is strongly thinking about his father, questioning himself about his father, then something happens. I personally don't understood very well if Eren sees the image of that woman, if both of them kinda share a temporary conection, if both see each other in a visions, but is obvious that some mental connection happen at this time. ___________ Now comes my point: This women that we see in Cp. 53 - page 20, is related to Eren, maybe aunt, maybe older sister, maybe his original mother. She's obviously older than he is, them both share a mind conection of some sort. To me this one woman is the same one we see interacting with Historia in Cp. 54. Many people have questioned the differences between the character draws across the story progression, but one thing that haven't changed is Eren eyes. That being said, Eren's eyes and the one from the Unknow Woman are very similar, more than his own mother Carla. Here we can see how they Look similar pay close attention to their eyes. (Unknow Woman from Cp.53 and Cp. 54 plus Eren.) (she kinda resembles Ymir too.) Spoiler: Even more, Eren shares with this Unknow Woman similar hair. The last we heard from Griesha is that he was going to the inner walls, the woman on Cp. 53 looks like she's in a rich house. Eren and his family lived in a modest house, so it can't be just his old house. _____________ Resuming: If Historia would remember of that Unknow Woman only when they meet again and the memories start to come when Eren and Historia were sleeping very close to each other, after Eren kinda stablishes a connection to that woman on a recent previous time, then this person must be close to appear in the series progression. What comes to importance is the use of such ability. In a point on the progress of history where the characters are questioning what the gonverment is really doing and it's real purposes. In a point where Eren starts to asking himself about his memories. What I believe is that this Unknow Woman, will help to solve this time-lapse problems Erens is having inside his own mind, clarifying many points. During this arch, I believe they'll try to take up the gonverment, but probably failing at doing so, discovering that the gonverment have a major play in the whole titan situation, they'll have to flee, then discovering, probably, that the warrior tribe(s) were not their enemies, or at least had a very good reason for acting that way, making of this arch, something like the middle of the series. And the reason have to do something with the Ape Titan, this one I believe we won't see soon, because it seems that even the powerful warriors tribe are concerned about it, while they think human civilization are just easy to finish, they have more heavy concerns about the Ape Titan or it's faction, that, I believe may turn out in the major and final villain of the series. The primary source of where titans came from. Probably before the end, there's going to be a huge siege at the inner walls when all humanity and warrior tribes may be put to the test aganst this ultimate enemy. That's something I'd like to see going on. And thinking about the mind interaction going on, it comes to my mind that, using this ability, they could have used titans to build the wall using their bodies and hardening abilities. And taking this into account, as Armin said before, I believe that probably those titans inside the wall, will get a walk soon... Please I'd like to hear from you people what you think about it or if anything said here, could help to formulate any better developed idea. (sorry for any english mistake, it is not my first leanguage and I'm far from master it.) Last edited by Vvisions; 2014-02-12 at 06:14.

2014-02-14, 03:05	Link #2109
Vvisions Member Join Date: Feb 2014	Let's take what WE DO KNOW first: Yes, aging and time is a point very important in this history, even more when you have a time counter, counting years and stuff, when time is not relevant to the history it's never mentioned most of the time. But to what we do learned till now, is that regular titans do not age at all, titans shifter looks to not age too, but only while in titan form. So a few characters can be very older than they may look. The importance of this two points take it's value when we have the passage "To you in 2000 years." We do know that the time of present history progression is Year 850, but we do not know what was before year 001, neither what made people reset the counting of the years. But taking into account the information that we do know, we can then affirm that: 2000 years in the past, something important happened that will come up now. 2000 years in the future or when year 2000 comes, something important will happen. (could also be: 2000 years are the life span of a titan, after that mankind would be free of them. ?) We have some examples, one of them are the Sawney Bean Legend, that happened on a time much posterior to year 850, that being said, we cannot affirm in what year of "our" time they are, neither if there wasn't another kinds of tecnlogies lost or not in use by them, or for any kind of civilization outside the wall (people behind the walls believe they are the last, but that was never prooved right, as they seem ignorant to a lot of things of outside the wall). It is mentioned that in the serum Eren's received, he would use Their "memories". We have then, Eren's waking up from an apparently long dream, we do not know what was about his dream in the manga, but we see something in the animated series that turns out to be what happend in the fall of Wall Maria (we do not know if that is what he sees, kinda of a prediction dream or just, to us viewers oriented images indicating that something terrible will happen). Of course Eren hadn't appeared from nowhere under that tree, as Mikasa had previously let him there, apparently, a few hours before. All probabilities turns out to indicate that he had a terrifying nightmare, a dream so deep that he had lost his time sense, obvioulsy we can afirm that in his dream, he already met Mikasa and that her hair was shortier than in the present (he could have been dreaming of the day they met). ____________ About the Unknow Woman: I do not think that this Unknow Woman is somehow blood related to Historia due to their physological differences, but she looks like some mother-figure to Historia. But this woman may be related or possess good knowledge about the walls and the Cult. And crossed trough my mind what you said about where Eren and his family were living before The Fall. Griesha is a very respected person both in his field of work, also in his comunity due to his work when saving the people from a supposed plague. So he could have choosed to live a little closer to the inner walls. Why then, would he choose to live so far from the inner walls, where life would be easier and safier? As we can deduct that he was experimenting years before the Fall of Wall Maria, so we can affirm that: 1- He was closer to his experiments, being Wall maria the outermost Wall and titans the targets of this experimentation. 2- He was better located to hide his experiments, far from the important centers. 3- To protect Eren and the rest of his family from something (possibly protect Eren from being taken away due to his important conections or his important play on plausible future events, see more in a few lines down). _________________________________ Now let's think about this: Historia's importance to the history progression is based on the fact that she might be able to reveal the Walls Cult secrets, because she comes from an important bloodline related to them. But she might personally know nothing about the Cult. So how could that work? Now we see that she, as Eren, posses hidden memories, but if she wasn't teached by her family, who could have teachered her? We can see that this Unknow Woman has advanced knowledge of some sort, could this woman know anything about the Cult that could come to light? Something that she told to Historia? Can she read the old leanguages? Now, many people is mentioning that this Unknow Woman is related to the king somehow (then we could see the king sitting close to powerful people from the Walls Cult), if we think about it, and it turns out to be true, and if Eren is really related to her, then Eren might be related to the King aswell and the royal family. Now, the importance of this is just HUGE! Because if they're up against the King at this point of history, then it can be, that Eren has some kind of right to the throne, like a lost prince, or have a much important play on the events, legitiming the fall of the actual king, or at last not making of the Scounting Legion revolutionary-terrorist villains to the people of inside the walls. And the MOST IMPORTANT of all: As knowledge is power, thus being given only to those with already some power. Being from a royal, or at least, very important blood heritage, Eren could demand ALL HIDDEN/LOST/FORBIDDEN knowledge about everything the Scounting Legion needs to know to fight the Titans and understand their nature and solve any mysteries left (even easier if he came to be related to the king himself). ___________ A thing I'd like to say too is about that strange man, acting weirdly with Armin. He looks totally out of his mind, strangely resembling a titan filled with desire to have human food, we learned recently that at least a type of titans were humans before. As we don't know so much of titan's nature, we do not posses yet any information of why they eat humans. We do know that they have an extreme compulsion for doing so, they do not possess sexual organs, so into their mind, they must feel something very strong and the only way to release this all is by "having" humans. So I can think that something related to this kind of thing, will come to light when we discover more about titans behavior. ____________ Another strange possibility is that titans are neutral into their natural way of acting, only acting against humans when commanded, but being possible to use them as tools to mankind too. If they were to be atracted naturally by humans, then there should have been tons and tons of titans full time towards the wall, as we see on zombies movies. But they seemed to come in expressive numbers only after the gate was destroyed. Then, if titans are inside walls that protect mankind, and titans can be controlled, and some of them behave as innocent children (at least before starting to eat people), then it can be a possibility too, because basically they can be controlled as one wishes. What seems to be true is that, there is some sort of faction/organization outside the walls aside the Warrior Tribe (that are at least inside Wall Maria, not outside of it as many have predicted). And this faction may be the one whose the Ape Titan may belong (important to note that the Warrior Tribe possess already knowledge of the Ape Titan prior to his introduction, so they may know from where it comes and it's purposes), that is trying to keep mankind cornered, and this faction can be the one responsible for the continous behavior of titans trying to eat people, using them as weapons. Of course that it is all just my personal opinion and by telling it here I wish to add something to others ideas and that help people come with innovative ideas. (sorry for any english mistake, it is not my first leanguage and I'm far from master it.) Last edited by Vvisions; 2014-02-14 at 03:26.

2014-02-14, 04:15	Link #2110
GreyZone "Senior" "Member" Join Date: Jan 2012	Titan shifters do age though... see Reiner and Bertolt. __________________

2014-02-14, 15:21	Link #2114
GreyZone "Senior" "Member" Join Date: Jan 2012	I understood it like this: Ymir is was somehow permanently turned into a titan, but was unable to turn back into a human (perhaps was actually absorbed by the titan body and turned into a "regular, dumb titan"). So she, essentially she be was not a human that became a titan shifter... but actually a titan that became a "human shifter", as she "stole" the human form of Berick, at least that is how I understood it. __________________

2014-02-15, 08:23	Link #2117
GreyZone "Senior" "Member" Join Date: Jan 2012	Did we see a titan devour a titan shifter though? No, we did not. So maybe if someone ate Reiner or Bertolt before they could transform, the titan that ate them would possibly turn back into a human (or rather a titan shifter). __________________

2014-02-08, 22:29	Link #2102
EliteF22 Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Great....probably a year of this human revolution coming up. Perhaps this lady is the one who Dr. Jaeger used to create his titan serum. Thus, Eren inherited some of the memories from her DNA ala Assassin's Creed. For that to be plausible Dr. Jaeger knew who she was and how high up the society the titan secret went. I think that was Dot Pixis talking with Erwin. The art is just so inconsistent and off.

2014-02-09, 23:27	Link #2104
Mubyoshi Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012	Lol, Armin made that guy gay, hahahahaahaha. Eren and Historia looks nice, first time we ever get to see them actually talk to each other, if I remember correctly that is.

2014-02-11, 06:16	Link #2105
Avrorrange Basileus Basileōn Join Date: Jan 2011	Want to know how the coup plays out.

2014-02-11, 12:16	Link #2106
zibi88 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	me wants to know more about warrior tribe... and what is going on with RBY team... ape titan... annie crystal....or eren training or remembering some lost memories... its all way better then infighting between humans (since it was some time before we last saw a titan fight) since we went all this time to this point... and now its like going back towards the inner walls... then trying to get to the basmenet and learn some truth it should be more easy if eren went alone with mikasa (less people easier to move around withouth beign noticed) since they know where the basement is (their house)... mikasa can protect eren... and eren might try to control the titans to get additional support...but nah lets create huge party hard to protect and go there into titan territory >_> (which mostly wont happen anytime soon with the whole coup... which wont take 1chaper to finish)

2014-02-13, 02:29	Link #2108
zibi88 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	but there is another similarity Historia comes from a rich family but was made to live far away from the inner walls on some poor farm hidding Eren if that woman is releated to him might come from rich people but was made to live far far away from the inner walls too both are somehow connected to this person.. maybe she is the mother of Eren and Historia.... Grisha took eren with himself and adopted him with Carla just like what they did with mikasa Eren doesnt remember that woman like historia becouse she manipulated the memory but as he awakened his titan power the coordinate power starts to kick in an slowly shows slights memory parts What if the real coordinate is this woman and Grisha made that serum from her blood...which gave eren similar power as her (since that woman was kinda angry that historia wanted to be like her...a monster) hard to tell... but maybe that woman is the "queen" since we saw the king at the very end of the chapter.... that woman has niece beed...expensive looking furniture and is feeling safe there (brushing hair with no fear in eyes) but I wonder if she noticed that eren is looking at her or she felt a connection beign made... becouse the moment eren saw her she stopped brushing her hair and eyes opened more... thne next panel her expression changed a bit like now she was watching him. I guess she might be the key to sort erens memories a bit and guide him in order for him to get to the basement.... or the bassement contains information about Erens biological mother and what she is and what he needs to do (maybe there is a safe zone with no titans and mikasa is needed to enter that place) Other possibility is that the woman is the real Coordinate that the warrior tribe is looking for... since even they dont know how it looks like... maybe that woman escaped from the warrior tribe years ago... manipulated the titans with the coordinate powers in order to harden and create the walls... and so she hid in that place with more people pouring in (yamir said was in her titan form for like 60years.... so maybe this woman is even older than that 100y+) but somehow I have a feeling that soon eren will have a memory flashback of that woman talking with historia... or will have a glance on the book (girl holding apple)... will tell what he saw...historia will remember that she used to read that book and both will start to think what does it mean... maybe historia will start to remember who that woman is and will talk with eren (so both will try to sort out the thing... making them come more close to each other...to miakasas fear :P)

2014-02-14, 16:58	Link #2115
zibi88 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	I was wondering... eren in his titan form via dream... said "father...had me" and they said he was in deep pain... maybe eren ate Grisha and thats why he was suffering but doesnt remember becouse as a titan he doesnt remember much kinda by eating he would absorb the memory... and thats why he said to follow the memories for now eren should meditate a bit and try to remember his memories... kinda try to solve them first becouse they stand in front of progress of mastering the power... as his mind is way too confused and too many questions which throws him off durring transformation like in the fight with annie... he had her pinned down but he kept remembering stuff and lost focus and in the end got his ass kicked the woman with her ability might be a clue which will lead to another one... kinda get all clues and you will unlock the real power... since eren knew how to change into titan even throught he never did that as he rememberd....so there might be knowledge in subconciousness of his (not aware of having it) Well historia might know everything but that woman sealed those memories till they meet again... if she doesnt then maybe she knows the ancient language and will read the books with the truth.... other option is that she will say who she is and that she has right to get told the truth which she will pass to everyone she wants as she has the rights to do it :P anyway I hope it wont focus too much on the whole coup and it will contain more memories of eren poping up or see RBY team and their status...

2014-02-15, 09:30	Link #2119
Breimoon Senior Member Join Date: May 2012	i think that the titans made from the ape ones used the prototype serum to have them keep their mind and that is why they can work in the dark, they are incomplete titan shifters. Eren either has the completed one or his father had him eat a titan shifter.