Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[golthin]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Wow, the shipper's war is still going on? XD

Overall, I think the episode is perfect...That's what the macross ending is supposed to be...throwing everything you can find towards both sides...(That's why I like this and DYRL ending more than plus and zero..not that they aren't good...but i just like big battle end XD)

As for the LT, from Ranka fans point of view, when Sheryl, such a beautiful lady who has a great personality keeps chasing the main character from episode 5 to 24, yet Alto still cannot make an apparent decision, what kind of conclusion can we make?

A) he is retarded
B) the director is milking for the movie
C) He just wants both (after all, no one says the law in Frontier about Marriage has to be 1+1 XD)
or...
D) Maybe the bond between Alto and Ranka is deeper than we all thought it was

Just my thought

you are asking for trouble. This place has become only a forum for Sheryl's fan. 95% of the people still posting in Most forums are Sheryl's fans trying to push their agenda of "until otherwise stated Sheryl won". One has to be either with Sheryl or with Ranka, not middle ground and not ground for changes unless if you become a fully Shipper for either of the camps. They only read what they want. I have said that Sheryl was ahead before. Reset doesn't mean that both girls are in the same level, just that sheryl's advantage was reduced from what it was before. Sheryl had the victory in the bag before, but now is back to full fledge LT.

I agreed with someone that Sheryl was ahead , and i am being called inconsistant. Oh well, I can't win against so many sheryl's fans, So i am going to let you have your victory, it doesn't really matter who win, but it does to you guys. I am being called a shipper. who am i shipping for? Sheryl or Ranka?

By the way, I was trolled about Alto's death by Kawamori. A few days after episode 24, I retracted my opinion because people came with good theories of how he could have escaped(long before episode 25 broadcast). I realized that there was no way Alto could be dead. I also said that I was a full shipper for alto dying and always will be. I was disappointed that he didn't die. I don't like the guy at all, and said so before episode 25. the way he treated both girls kept me from becoming a shipper for any of the girls.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by golthin

the way he treated both girls kept me from becoming a shipper for any of the girls.

In what way has he treated any of the girls wrongfully, if I may be so bold as to ask?

[monir]

Originally Posted by Danish78

Understandably you're upset reading these declarations but why don't you just let it go? You aren't putting up any logical arguments to refute these claims so just let them slide for the meantime; load up on credible ammo (facts) and just resume your shipping war then ok?

Agreed! Any shipping by either side, especially in this thread, is figment of imagination stretched to its limit. Time to accept facts as they are laid out. Admitting to oneself is the first step toward full recovery.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by golthin

you are asking for trouble. This place has become only a forum for Sheryl's fan. 95% of the people still posting in Most forums are Sheryl's fans trying to push their agenda of "until otherwise stated Sheryl won". One has to be either with Sheryl or with Ranka, not middle ground and not ground for changes unless if you become a fully Shipper for either of the camps. They only read what they want. I have said that Sheryl was ahead before. Reset doesn't mean that both girls are in the same level, just that sheryl's advantage was reduced from what it was before. Sheryl had the victory in the bag before, but now is back to full fledge LT.

I agreed with someone that Sheryl was ahead , and i am being called inconsistant. Oh well, I can't win against so many sheryl's fans, So i am going to let you have your victory, it doesn't really matter who win, but it does to you guys. I am being called a shipper. who am i shipping for? Sheryl or Ranka?

Thanks for the advice

By the way, I am a Ranka fan tho (I think you thought i was a Sheryl fans??)

[TwilightHack]

DFTT's. That's all the advice I can offer to you guys who reply to the "it makes no sense", "no-basis" posters. In the end you'll get frustrated.

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

Excuse me while I may address the point that is supposed to have been answered by Twilight Hack, but how do you reach the conclusion that Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka?

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

5) There you are speculating for Ranka.

That's what I answered.

----

Originally Posted by golthin

you are asking for trouble. This place has become only a forum for Sheryl's fan. 95% of the people still posting in Most forums are Sheryl's fans trying to push their agenda of "until otherwise stated Sheryl won".

Asking for trouble? His post brings up plausible points and is less troubling to me than say Seifall's or Wesley's.

And pushing our agenda on you? A majority of us are merely stating our opinions supported with non-tinted facts. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire.

One has to be either with Sheryl or with Ranka, not middle ground and not ground for changes unless if you become a fully Shipper for either of the camps.

Well, saying you're middle ground while stating one is ahead is clearly NOT middle ground.

I wouldn't have labeled you inconsistent or a shipper if you hadn't jumped camp at least 3 times (Ranka -> Sheryl -> Neutral) while openly proclaiming each... each time and why.

They only read what they want. I have said that Sheryl was ahead before. Reset doesn't mean that both girls are in the same level, just that sheryl's advantage was reduced from what it was before. Sheryl had the victory in the bag before, but now is back to full fledge LT.

I read whatever is in front of me. If you have a delusion that I'm a tinted shipper, you're quite mistaken.

And to reset means to turn things back to even, neutral, 0-0. For example, you don't reset a game and expect your previous score to still be there (only lower) when it starts up again.

I agreed with someone that Sheryl was ahead , and i am being called inconsistant. Oh well, I can't win against so many sheryl's fans, So i am going to let you have your victory, it doesn't really matter who win, but it does to you guys. I am being called a shipper. who am i shipping for? Sheryl or Ranka?

Feeling the heat? Think of this as advice in a learning process.

Until you prove otherwise... you'll always be hounded until you can make up your mind about being neutral or not, stop say statements that contradict yourself, and stay consistent with your beliefs. You'll also always be bashed until you give up trying to discredit shippers who have clear and concise, non-tinted arguments towards what they believe.

By the way, I was trolled about Alto's death by Kawamori. A few days after episode 24, I retracted my opinion because people came with good theories of how he could have escaped(long before episode 25 broadcast). I realized that there was no way Alto could be dead. I also said that I was a full shipper for alto dying and always will be. I was disappointed that he didn't die. I don't like the guy at all, and said so before episode 25. the way he treated both girls kept me from really becoming a shipper for any of the girls.

lol... you're being trolled by Kawamori even now.

I don't even know what to say to "Death to Alto" shipping. If that's your cup of tea, that's fine by me.

----

Originally Posted by monir

Agreed! Any shipping by either side, especially in this thread, is figment of imagination stretched to its limit. Time to accept facts as they are laid out. Admitting to oneself is the first step toward full recovery.

See, monir is a prime example of a neutral ship. He's been a constant throughout the series, stating things as they are and not leaning either way.

Even so, I have to disagree with you monir that Alto x Sheryl is only a figment of our imagination. There were just too many things... but I am thankful for your thoughts.

Like I said, I'm patiently awaiting the movie and have abstained from more active shipping practices.

[Lyenyo]

Sorry if this has been asked but 50 pages is alot to read through x.x

Could someone tell me what this was?: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2151/5665tu4.jpg

Ta =)

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by Danish78

Understandably you're upset reading these declarations but why don't you just let it go?

You aren't putting up any logical arguments to refute these claims

That's my line

so just let them slide for the meantime; load up on credible ammo (facts) and just resume your shipping war then ok?

You want arguments ?! I have plenty....
You want credible facts ?! I have ones too...
Resuming my shipping war ?! Huh I didn't come here since the final episode and looks like you're all saying Sheryl won without even an argument like you said to proove it.
No one won, since he choose no one ...
But OK, looks like it's time to show you what is the real definition of the word trick


I didn't see it but did you say Alto's call sign at the end is sagittarius 1 ????!!!! He kept his Skull 4 calling Battle Frontier, and asking Sheryl to wake up Ranka...
And what exactly am I getting at ?! I just talked to Westlo who said made a link between Sagittarius 1 and Sheryl's constellation...
Really.... shipping war ?! who are the ones who ship non stop since the final huh?! I just read post since the 25th and I wasn't here nor the major part of people who support Ranka...

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Lyenyo

Sorry if this has been asked but 50 pages is alot to read through x.x

Could someone tell me what this was?: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2151/5665tu4.jpg

Ta =)

To be honest, we don't quite know. It could be a bird-man reference, something Vajra related, or perhaps Graces cyborg core (this one is a stretch).

[monir]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

Even so, I have to disagree with you monir that Alto x Sheryl is a figment of our imagination... but I am thankful for your thoughts.

Like I said, I'm patiently awaiting the movie and have abstained from more active shipping practices.

I've done my fair share of shipping as well. The primary question that needs to be asked is that if the two people that I'm supporting for, has each of them said/indicated clearly in dialogues the liking/loving for each other is mutual, and not just fan's deriving to conclusion based on looks/hints/etc? A clear indication is something like when Alto said in episode 25, "both of you are my wings."

What I'm trying to say is that shipping related argument shouldn't even exist in this thread considering all clues/hints to support the previous argument for any shipping corresponding the trio has been discounted in the episode. Alto's opinion actually matters for any shipping side's declaration, "we've won!!11" to work.

Neither side of the argument has "won" and none has "lost" either. Yet, arguments are still persisting on "winning" and "losing." It can get silly at times, and even a bit annoying, especially, when some of those responses read so aggressive.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

To be honest, we don't quite know. It could be a bird-man reference, something Vajra related, or perhaps Graces cyborg core (this one is a stretch).

I would think that is the part of the varja queen? it really seems like the part where Grace get connected with Varja's head?? Maybe it is the leftover after Alto's shooting...but yeah, it's really unclear

Hope my thought could be useful to you

[Danish78]

It's ok to ship and it's also ok to be neutral but you can't do both at the same time (unless you do two different pairings I mean). Just be civil and try to argue your position on clear facts(and hopefully concise and understandable presentation). Any speculation will most always be attacked. For neutrals its just better to stay out of the way and watch the fireworks between the two sides, interject your opinion once in a while but never try to goad or disrespect a ship for taking a side. This is a public forum and open for all to post their opinions but that shouldn't stop us from respecting each others choices.

@monir
It's just the frustration of not getting a clear winner. A venting thread might be useful hehehe. And some of the early flame-baiting posts in this thread were made by people claiming to be neutral. It was really done in bad taste, trying to incite the wrath of both camps... which is what we see in the more recent posts I guess.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Danish78

@monir
It's just the frustration of not getting a clear winner. A venting thread might be useful hehehe.

And in turn drive myself to madness? My sanity is precious to me. And besides, shippers are the worst representative of the characters they are shipping for. Sheryl and Ranka are much better characters than the shippers are capable of adding to those personality just because their views are shrouded by the underlying agenda of shipping.

Okay, I'm done with venting as well.

[vivitoru]

Hello there, this is my first actual post in this forum (however I've been lurking here for quite some time now)
I know I am kind of late posting in this thread (really late) I wanted to ask something I've not seen being discussed before (I may have missed it).
Does the episode 24 preview pic (Sheryl "rip" art) actually point to Alto's wingmen Maruyama?
It seems to be the nose art you can see when he transforms in battroid mode before being killed by the ghost (if this is the case, how cruel of Kawamori T_T)

[TwilightHack]

I try to keep a fairly objective view when shipping.

Originally Posted by monir

I've done my fair share of shipping as well. The primary question that needs to be asked is that if the two people that I'm supporting for, has each of them said/indicated clearly in dialogues the liking/loving for each other is mutual, and not just fan's deriving to conclusion based on looks/hints/etc? A clear indication is something like when Alto said in episode 25, "both of you are my wings."

Well, my only rebuttal to that is that we still have to resolve ep 24's Sheryl x Alto scene. That conversation never finished and it still needs to happen, hopefully it's addressed in the movie. If not... well that's one of the biggest misuses of such a well played scene I've seen yet.

And while this may be a stretch bordering my tinted goggles, but I can vouch from personal experience that it is quite possible to tell two people you need them both... but rely on one more heavily then the other. Like you want/need/like one more than the other but need both at your side to do a job and as support.

What I'm trying to say is that shipping related argument shouldn't even exist in this thread considering all clues/hints to support the previous argument for any shipping corresponding the trio has been discounted in the episode. Alto's opinion actually matters for any shipping side's declaration, "we've won!!11" to work.

To be honest, the dialogue in ep 25 was so poorly executed in regards to the LT (concentration to Mecha pr0nz ftw) that to simply disregard everything previously is a travesty! Yes, neither side can proclaim victory, but it wont hurt to state our opinion will it?

This is truly SK's troll mastery at work... which is why I am waiting patiently on the movie. If I hadn't seen a post earlier that upset me, I wouldn't be here in the first place.

Neither side of the argument has "won" and none has "lost" either. Yet, arguments are still persisting on "winning" and "losing." It can get silly at times, and even a bit annoying, especially, when some of those responses read so aggressive.

QTF (quoted for truth).

Edit: Added comment

Originally Posted by monir

And in turn drive myself to madness? My sanity is precious to me. And besides, shippers are the worst representative of the characters they are shipping for. Sheryl and Ranka are much better characters than the shippers are capable of adding to those personality just because their views are shrouded by the underlying agenda of shipping.

Okay, I'm done with venting as well.

I agree, creating a venting thread would lead to soo much trouble. Emotions would run high and the flames would become rampant and out of control. If I didn't know better, you're probably doing your best just not to hit the "WTF PWNT!" button on your mod options and delete all posts concerning shipping.

But wait! Not all shippers are horrible and bad representatives. Delusional tinted goggles shippers? Probably... but the objective realistic ones? Imo, no.

I don't know how you're able to stay sane trying to mod this forum monir, but for that I admire you. Hehe.

[Danish78]

Originally Posted by Seifall

That's my line



You want arguments ?! I have plenty....
You want credible facts ?! I have ones too...
Resuming my shipping war ?! Huh I didn't come here since the final episode and looks like you're all saying Sheryl won without even an argument like you said to proove it.
No one won, since he choose no one ...
But OK, looks like it's time to show you what is the real definition of the word trick


I didn't see it but did you say Alto's call sign at the end is sagittarius 1 ????!!!! He kept his Skull 4 calling Battle Frontier, and asking Sheryl to wake up Ranka...
And what exactly am I getting at ?! I just talked to Westlo who said made a link between Sagittarius 1 and Sheryl's constellation...
Really.... shipping war ?! who are the ones who ship non stop since the final huh?! I just read post since the 25th and I wasn't here nor the major part of people who support Ranka...

Whoa there! I was just asking a question. Sheesh tempers are flaring all over now huh? Please don't generalize. I for one have not declared Sheryl's victory, haven't even posted anything to defend against your ship so could you lay-off?

Well, if I remember correctly Alto used Saggitarius-1 as his call sign when he piloted the NUNS vf-171ex. The IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) signal identifying Alto as Skull 4 is from his ExGear and its only recognized by Quarter.

Oh, nice to see you back by the way. It was admirable of you staying away for a few days as I suggested. Feel free to do as you please or take up my last suggestion again, its a public forum so I can't exactly force you out can I?

Clearly you misunderstand my intentions, I just wanted to clarify what you were getting at with your last post. I'm not attacking you, I'm just requesting you make your answer understandable/clear.

[-Tsuzuki-]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

maybe because it is a homage to the anime character that hovered macross to a love story and not only cranky mecha clashing epic fighting anime.

I know. But it's still Minmay, the eternal third wheel.

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

not to forget that the path of hikaru, misa and minmay is still untold.

I'm hoping that's where this is headed. (Just ditch Minmay.)

[Danish78]

Originally Posted by monir

And in turn drive myself to madness? My sanity is precious to me. And besides, shippers are the worst representative of the characters they are shipping for. Sheryl and Ranka are much better characters than the shippers are capable of adding to those personality just because their views are shrouded by the underlying agenda of shipping.

Okay, I'm done with venting as well.

Just because you're a shipper doesn't mean you have to hate the opposition. I agree that that statement doesn't apply to the most extreme of shippers. I guess objective and shipper in a single sentence just doesn't work for most huh?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Danish78

Just because you're a shipper doesn't mean you have to hate the opposition. I agree that that statement doesn't apply to the most extreme of shippers. I guess objective and shipper in a single sentence just doesn't work for most huh?

It actually does pretty well. If the other side cannot deliver any logical arguments, however...

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by Danish78

Just because you're a shipper doesn't mean you have to hate the opposition. I agree that that statement doesn't apply to the most extreme of shippers. I guess objective and shipper in a single sentence just doesn't work for most huh?

Can't agree more. I am a Ranka's fan but I really like Sheryl also (but of course, I like Ranka more).

I guess part of the reason I am a Ranka's fan is because I am a Minmay fan in DYRL (i didn't watch the original) And I can never forget the part that hikaru dumps Minmay, she is already so sad, but hikaru just has to chase her in order to give her a slap. I just think that it's too cruel for Minmay, so I want Ranka/Minmay this time has a good ending. (i know Ranka is not Minmay, but from ep 1 and 2 in frontier, the analogy is just so strong)

[Danish78]

Can't remember SDF:M anymore but planning to re-watch that, although on some forums they say Minmay tv series was really unbearable. Thanks for agreeing.