Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[D-KLAC]

OMFG over 2800 posts & over 150000 views with now 141 pages i'm surprise the forum not yet go kaboom?!

cause we might talking about this even after r2-25 is dub in 09

i'm telling ya follow my theroies http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2420 cause i believe my GS-INSTINCT & I KNOW I'M THIS CLOSE TO SOLVE R2-25 MYSTERY.

the suspect in the act are lelouch, suzaku, c2, orange, etc "others" who knows lelouch's "re:" plans

cause the real answers are being hiding by TIME SKIP (YEA 2 TIME SKIP IN R2-25) & GORO (GORO TELL THE REAL TRUTH OR ELSE YOU & SUNRISE GET THE anno's "treatment"/"emails" during mid 90s)

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

I dunno... I'm under the impression based on CC before Lelouch seemed to give her a reason to live for something? that immortality and exile is worst off than getting to die and going to the World of C...

She didn't seem sad the last we saw her.

[bran]

Originally Posted by Tael

The next problem arises in the code transfer, V.V. at the very least became disoriented after losing his code, but more likely than not (compounded by C.Chi) he lost his memories and reverted to a child. When Charles, died and 'supposedly' lost his Code, he was himself through till the moment he disappeared. Inconsistency is plausible here.

that's interesting

[hero147]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

No, if you gave me 5 bucks, and I promised to pay you back tomorrow, but before I could I was ran over by a car and died, how am I an ass for not following through?

Dude....You got ran over by a car that you yourself was controlling. And yes, girls do think guys are asses when they die. Possibly like "Omg....Why.....You promised to make me smile!"

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by hero147

Dude....You got ran over by a car that you yourself was controlling. And yes, girls do think guys are asses when they die. Possibly like "Omg....Why.....You promised to make me smile!"

She DID smile at the end right? Lelouch just made her less selfish about what she wants and was given emotion and the will to live once more even though she is immortal. All can be done because of what Lelouch sacrificed himself for in the end.

[Kagetsuchi]

Originally Posted by Syphen

One can neither say with absolute certainty Lelouch is dead or alive. The directors specifically showed two scenes of the cart driver at the end. The purpose was to draw doubt, provoke conjecture, and ultimately create a sense that the story is still continuing. It's a literary device that makes the story seem larger. There is motivation for Lelouch to hide himself should he be alive, and there is the obvious acceptance that he is dead exactly as shown. However, with the motif of people "not really being dead" throughout the entire series it's obvious that the designers are trying to leave it open ended. Mystery is the one prevailing element that kept us interested in the story, and they have chosen to leave us with a little bit.

We need more people like him posting here i've grown tired of lulu dead or alive i stopped caring = /

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Tael

There is an inconsistency in the theory of 'must die to activate code' idea. That being Charles and the events in Episode 15... and V.V.'s entire existence.

• Lelouch Geasses Charles, but we see no animation beyond it reaching his eyes and we see no red iris.
• Charles shoots himself, but this apperantely never happened because Lelouch never left him mech.
• After waking up Charles reveals his code and says that the Geass have no affect on him.

The problem arises in the absence of the rewiring scene, and the absence of the red circles on the eyes. Either he was not Geassed because he had already acquired the code from V.V., or there is a massive inconsistency and the animators fucked up. But then we know that Lelouch never actually left the Shinkurou, in that he never faced his father, and he never had him shoot himself. In which situation, Charles never died but his code was fully active. In either situation, the the idea that the code activates upon death, seems to fall through the floor.

The next problem arises in the code transfer, V.V. at the very least became disoriented after losing his code, but more likely than not (compounded by C.Chi) he lost his memories and reverted to a child. When Charles, died and 'supposedly' lost his Code, he was himself through till the moment he disappeared. Inconsistency is plausible here.

V.V.'s immortality does not seem to have had death attached to it either. There is a major lapse in judgment if he acquired the power but the only way to test it was to kill himself. Charles would not have let him do such a thing, as it is borderline idiotic. "Oh don't worry, I'll be fine." The last words of many a man.

Finally, the idea put forth by V.V., of actively accepting the burden of immortality (we hear it when he murmurs after losing his code) would imply that he would know full well when he acquired said burden. Further this, that if the code does not activate until a person's death, then there are other loop holes. For one, a person could unwittingly live out their lives without dying but carrying the code, and when they revive they revive as a desecrated corpse for all of eternity. What is that supposed to do?

Uh, Lelouch did leave his mech, in order to use use the mirrors as a way to Geass Charles from there, we never get an up close shot to indicate what transpired exactly if it had an effect or not. All I know is I find it strange he killed himself in the first place if he really was already immortal/immune. >_>

And how does that work? V.V was totally rational at the time, as rationale as a dying person can be anyway and him reliving memories says nothing on the matter, I mean, how many people keep saying Lelouch really did die and his relieving memories proves it? At the end of the day though, relieving memories could just be that, relieving memories and have nothing to really do with then code in the end. I don't see any point in which you can make an argument that V.V was any different then how he always was.

Well, we don't know how V.V got his code in the first place do we? Any number of details can be inserted into how or what happened that allowed him to gain it in the first place, even him dieing at one point because we JUST DON'T KNOW!

Uhh, didn't C.C provide a counter explanation to this, on her own burden of immortality as well, and was it not revealed that as an immortal she longed for death as did her predecessor, in this case when V.V said that line he could be speaking of their ultimate fate to eventually die, as was the case with his code transfer afterward. As for the comment about if it doesn't activate until that person dies then what happens when he grows old etc... WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY NEVER EXPLAINED GEASS OR CODES OR ANYTHING OF THE LIKE IN DETAIL!! Thus, the whole thing is up for grabs in the end with no real way of confirming or denying the possibilities involved, particularly with Lelouch's survival >_>

[FreezeGeass]

I always wondered what people considered his sins to be. He never did anything that bad, his Geassing of Euphemia was accidental and his killing of her after was to correct that mistake and salvage the situation.

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

That's kind of a shitty sacrifice, considering all that he did.

Lelouch getting right back up and getting some exile isn't dying for the sins of himself and his family, its getting stabbed for his sins and the sins of his family.

Not that epic.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

That's kind of a shitty sacrifice, considering all that he did.

Lelouch getting right back up and getting some exile isn't dying for the sins of himself and his family, its getting stabbed for his sins and the sins of his family.

Not that epic.

What, Immortality for the rest of his life where he has to watch the world pass him by etc etc. while being likely burdened with the same responsibility as Suzaku, only for eternity? Talk to the nun, hell talk to C.C about how she regarded it before, it didn't and doesn't seem all that peachy to everyone I would imagine >_>

[eaglei3]

I just hate with how all this sin talk, 99% of it just focuses on Lelouch having sinned and needing to be punished. Everyone else just walks freely in these scenarios.

[bran]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

What, Immortality for the rest of his life where he has to watch the world pass him by etc etc. while being likely burdened with the same responsibility as Suzaku, only for eternity? Talk to the nun, hell talk to C.C about how she regarded it before, it didn't and doesn't seem all that peachy to everyone I would imagine >_>

the nun and cc were alone
if lelouch is immortal he'll be forever with cc and not be lonely

[Kagetsuchi]

I just hate with how all this sin talk, 99% of it just focuses on Lelouch having sinned and needing to be punished. Everyone else just walks freely in these scenarios.

Everyone was under his chain of command really, Charles got Tko'd in like 2 episodes and Szchiel well he was too cool to be called a sinner.

[FreezeGeass]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

I just hate with how all this sin talk, 99% of it just focuses on Lelouch having sinned and needing to be punished. Everyone else just walks freely in these scenarios.

yeah, like what happened to the black knights getting off so easy? or ohgi for his betrayals? or nina for making the bomb in the first place? etc...

[Kagetsuchi]

Originally Posted by FreezeGeass

yeah, like what happened to the black knights getting off so easy? or ohgi for his betrayals? or nina for making the bomb in the first place? etc...

No one cares about nina >.> and ohgi people care less about...Seriously the focus is on lulu because he's lulu.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

OMFG over 2800 posts & over 150000 views with now 141 pages i'm surprise the forum not yet go kaboom?!

I remember this from when Kira Yamato was beaten by Shinn.

Originally Posted by Tael

[*]Charles shoots himself, but this apperantely never happened because Lelouch never left him mech.

Actually Lelouch did leave his Shinkirou.



As you can see, Charles has the same blood stain even after Lelouch finds himself inside his Shinkirou. Charles would have little reason to shoot himself if it was all an illusion.

Originally Posted by Tael;

The next problem arises in the code transfer, V.V. at the very least became disoriented after losing his code, but more likely than not (compounded by C.Chi) he lost his memories and reverted to a child. When Charles, died and 'supposedly' lost his Code, he was himself through till the moment he disappeared. Inconsistency is plausible here.

V.V. lost tons of blood though. It's not that strange if he became disoriented.

Originally Posted by Tael

V.V.'s immortality does not seem to have had death attached to it either. There is a major lapse in judgment if he acquired the power but the only way to test it was to kill himself. Charles would not have let him do such a thing, as it is borderline idiotic. "Oh don't worry, I'll be fine." The last words of many a man.

We don't know how V.V. acquired the Geass or the Code, so we can't really assume much about his knowledge regarding how it works. Though whether he knew or not, it's possible that he was faced with a situation that brought about his death. Remember that Charles said that his mother was killed. It's not impossible that V.V. was also the target of an assassination attempt, for example.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by bran

the nun and cc were alone
if lelouch is immortal he'll be forever with cc and not be lonely

Helps, but then it doesn't cause he'll still have to carry the knowledge that his friends and family will one day die and leave him behind, hence why I think it easier that he cut ties off entirely while also hiding away so that the world doesn't know he still lives... until they forget and he reminds them of that a couple generations down the line again, or that's how I see it playing out. And Suzaku has Nunnally now to help him in his struggle last I recall

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by FreezeGeass

I always wondered what people considered his sins to be. He never did anything that bad, his Geassing of Euphemia was accidental and his killing of her after was to correct that mistake and salvage the situation.

.....You are joking right?
Here is a comprised list of what Lelouch done. Note, this was all during his "Whaaa! Daddy doesn't love me! I will make him pay!" Stage of Selfishness:

1) Used the Black Knights for his own selfish goals and never really cared about him. He just told them some pretty words to get them to follow him. Sure they would get what the wanted out of the deal, but he doesn't care if they all die as long as HE gets what HE wants. In other words, considered people expendable.

2) Blowing up the JLF ship for no other reason than to be a rallying point.

3) Euphie SAZ Massacre... You say it was an accident? Would you like to say how saying "Kill all Japanese" just slips out? He was ego stroking. And then what does he do after that? Oh, uses it for a rallying point... right.

4) Many a civilian lost their lives in Narita and most notably the lack Rebellion.

5) "I order you to die!" And not just that one time in the first episode. A lot.

6) Killed Clovis in cold blood. And not because he killed Japanese, but because he can't afford to be found out.

7) Endangered Shirley in S1 and pretty much lead to her death as well because he wanted to use Rolo as a "rag."

8) Geass Cult Massacre all because HE was wronged.

Do you want me to go on? He was a monster. Especially in S1. He didn't care who he trampled on, what anyone elses feelings were, and he definitely didn't CARE about anything other than getting revenge for HIMSELF. When Schneizel said in R2 24 "You who denied people and their wills come here and acknowledge them?" Was truth. Lelouch saw the light in R2 21, but that doesn't excuse him for his sins IMO.

[coba]

Originally Posted by bran

the nun and cc were alone
if lelouch is immortal he'll be forever with cc and not be lonely

Still it is the same as Suzaku's burden though since Lelouch can no longer become Lelouch Lamparouge or Lelouch Vi Brittania. Worse yet, he will have to live in the hiding for the next 100 years or so till everyone who knows his face/identity is all dead. In the end, he will have to always move around/ run away and will have to severe all the contact with his friends/families since if he get found out that he is alive, all his efforts will be useless.

[Shuuda]

Originally Posted by FreezeGeass

yeah, like what happened to the black knights getting off so easy? or ohgi for his betrayals? or nina for making the bomb in the first place? etc...

Well, Nina has kinda suffered enough inside for the whole bomb thing, and she did make a countermeasure, which redeemed her a bit.

As for Ougi and the Black Knights, most people are being too bias against them. Yes, they betrayed him, but it's not like they had absolutely no reason to do so. They're good people, who at the most made a few mistakes.

[Masterkeyes2]

Originally Posted by Orga777

.....You are joking right?
Here is a comprised list of what Lelouch done. Note, this was all during his "Whaaa! Daddy doesn't love me! I will make him pay!" Stage of Selfishness:

1) Used the Black Knights for his own selfish goals and never really cared about him. He just told them some pretty words to get them to follow him. Sure they would get what the wanted out of the deal, but he doesn't care if they all die as long as HE gets what HE wants. In other words, considered people expendable.

2) Blowing up the JLF ship for no other reason than to be a rallying point.

3) Euphie SAZ Massacre... You say it was an accident? Would you like to say how saying "Kill all Japanese" just slips out? He was ego stroking. And then what does he do after that? Oh, uses it for a rallying point... right.

4) Many a civilian lost their lives in Narita and most notably the lack Rebellion.

5) "I order you to die!" And not just that one time in the first episode. A lot.

6) Killed Clovis in cold blood. And not because he killed Japanese, but because he can't afford to be found out.

7) Endangered Shirley in S1 and pretty much lead to her death as well because he wanted to use Rolo as a "rag."

8) Geass Cult Massacre all because HE was wronged.

Do you want me to go on? He was a monster. Especially in S1. He didn't care who he trampled on, what anyone elses feelings were, and he definitely didn't CARE about anything other than getting revenge for HIMSELF. When Schneizel said in R2 24 "You who denied people and their wills come here and acknowledge them?" Was truth. Lelouch saw the light in R2 21, but that doesn't excuse him for his sins IMO.

To be fair Rolo killed Shirley because he was a jealous shit at that time. Even if Lelouch kindness was genuine the result would have been the same