2011-12-06, 21:37 | Link #824 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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While I do think the anime put Airi in the figurative "pole position" from episode 1 through 6 in terms of how she felt (by episode 3 she openly stated that she felt differently around Shingo than other boys), I don't think she really scored any relationship points with him from his point of view, since he didn't really disclose his feelings until episode 7 when the Miu/Sana arc started, and it wasn't really clear that he was aware of her in terms of as relationship material.
This is definitely not the kind of show that you want to be shipping for though; it's one you should just enjoy for the ride because Shingo hasn't really waffled and developed his feelings for Miu rather quickly starting from a rather blank slate in terms of how he felt about the girls... Compared to other shows, this one spent far more time in the introduction "phase" so that's probably why a lot of people feel misled in a sense... Spoiler:
Last edited by relentlessflame; 2011-12-06 at 22:40. Reason: merge double posts |
2011-12-06, 21:59 | Link #825 | |
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Spoiler:
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2011-12-06, 22:13 | Link #826 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Yeah, I think it's fair to say that none of the girls have been misled. I mean even Airi after the famous bathtub scene says "that's just how he is" in terms of taking care of people selflessly, there's no ulterior motive for any of his interactions with the girls in the first 6 episodes.
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2011-12-06, 22:45 | Link #828 | |
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So yes, Mashifony: An intro that lead us along a big road with bread crumbs scattered about that eventually became the path when the big road disappeared. You can follow the bread crumbs back to the start, the big road though... the construction workers left before finishing. What a colorful metaphor that was. I'm still going to call it a good show, great even for its genre and limitations. Unfortunately, no matter how well the show does, sale or VN wise, I doubt we'll see more of this adapted unless its in an OAV movie sort of thing. Spoiler for Imagine it:
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2011-12-06, 23:06 | Link #829 | |
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I don't agree that they were being deceptive in any of the earlier developments, even if they didn't lead to the ultimate destination that some people were expecting. These developments were still meaningful and important in the overall development of the show, its themes, its characters, and its overall message. This was developed progressively throughout the show, not just in retrospect. While they didn't firmly close every door that was opened, that doesn't mean these developments amounted to nothing. People often complain bitterly that anime follows a pre-set formula and sticks too closely to tropes and archetypes such that the medium lacks in originality and everything's too predictable. But whenever a show doesn't strictly conform to convention and tries to tell a story that's more subtle than can be easily captured by first impressions, people dismiss the show and don't give it a chance, or end up judging it negatively because it didn't give them the ending they wanted. I'm not going to shed too many tears for the "random viewer" who doesn't give the show his/her full attention or give it a chance to come into its own. The fact that this show is thoughtful and introspective and expects the same from its audience is arguably its greatest strength. Edit: Since we could probably go on forever about this point, let me just say that I'm not saying the approach they used didn't have issues/drawbacks. I can agree with vio's statement below that it is an "arguable weakness" -- arguable because this approach also has certain strengths, not least of which the way that it gave us so much to talk about and speculate about for the past many weeks. As I've said before, this show seems more concerned with presenting "a" plausible path than "The Only Path", and I think that suits a show that spent so much time developing a whole bunch of characters. So I guess I can understand why some might consider this a weakness, but I don't consider it a weakness for me. That's why I don't like it when you say that the show was "deceptive", because even though the show didn't end the way I originally suspected it would, I don't feel that they ever deceived me along the way. There was no "trickery" involved. If you say that the first half was "potentially misleading" (especially based on what people have come to accept from anime in this genre), then I could probably agree -- because, as a matter of fact, many people were misled.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2011-12-07 at 00:03. |
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2011-12-06, 23:07 | Link #830 |
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Yeah, I was arguing for your point on the previous page in my spoiler-comparisons post for why I think that's the one arguable weakness of the show.
This show really didn't provide much clarity early on with respect to the eventual pairing, and it's safe to say that anything that can be read has to be read after we already knew the facts. There wasn't much in the way of hints as to which path the anime was going on (although plenty of ambiguous hints were provided for each girl), since you could read any ending out of the first 6 episodes with the hindsight of knowing the actual ending. But as relentlessflame has said many times on this thread, the show followed the general introduction path for 6 episodes and then decided to go towards a specific pairing path (past the point of no return presumably). It's tough for me to fault the show for that, since I wasn't that focused on the romantic pairings until he started to get closer to Sana and then Miu, which triggered everything... |
2011-12-07, 00:04 | Link #832 | |||
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From the bottom, some what. And looky! We got more ammo to shoot at each other.
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I have no qualm with calling the first six episodes the setting of our stage pieces and the actors for our drama, I'm perfectly fine with it. Its just that some pieces were set-up as if they were distractions and haven't amounted to much more than that. Do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain! Quote:
I bit. Is it wrong for me to be disappointed with the fact that said carrot on the stick led to the end of a loose string? It doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the rest of the show on its own, but in the overall sense it does leave me with a sense of incompletion. (You can tie this into an overall incomplete feeling about Airi's character even if her evolution on what has been shown has been done in a superb fashion. She was developed well and I like your analysis on her development, but that doesn't change the fact that her backstory was put on the table then brushed aside when the deck was dealt later on in the series.) Quote:
Nothing like a glass of wine while doing this. Last edited by Vena; 2011-12-07 at 00:32. |
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2011-12-07, 00:42 | Link #834 | |
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To me, the goal of an eroge/VN adaptation should be to convey as much of the game as possible while creating a solid, cohesive story. And with that goal in mind, I think the anime has fared admirably. If you were reinventing the whole story as a standalone 12-episode anime, then I'm sure there's a lot of content that could be removed or reworked... but I think the primary audience for the anime is game players, or those who might become interested in playing the game. As a member of the former group, I can tell you that I think this anime is doing great justice to the game on which its based, and I'm quite impressed with the cohesive story they've managed to weave without requiring massive edits or rewrites. If that means that this anime always has to come with a "based on a multi-path game that you need to play to get the complete story" label, then I guess that's fine, but I don't think there's a single one of these adaptations that doesn't come with that disclaimer, and most would know that before they start. That doesn't mean that the story we do get isn't comprehensive and functionally complete... just that it doesn't say all there is to say on the matter and there is indeed more out there.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2011-12-07 at 00:55. |
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2011-12-07, 01:44 | Link #835 | ||
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Mashifony didn't need that much reworked but had it been done, it would have made the story obvious. Is this bad? I don't think so, especially not if that plot is consistent, solid, well paced, and so on and so forth. Its a good show, its really good, but its by my nature to be curious why it couldn't have been better and to that end I offer my criticism. What probably exasperates this is that the next few years will probably be heralded by twenty more Hoshizoras before I see another Mashifony attempt to take up the mantle to actually be good. |
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2011-12-07, 02:05 | Link #836 |
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I think it's a toss-up of competing objectives. I mean, if the objective were primarily "we want to tell a love story between Shingo and a certain heroine", then yes, absolutely: a story that clearly develops a central relationship from start to finish and deals with the bumps along the way is the most effective. I've loved many romantic anime told in this style. But I think that's not the only good way, nor the only valid objective. To me, I think they've created an entertaining experience that has good cohesion and provided plenty to think about and discuss. Perhaps it's because I had already played the game, but the things you find worth criticizing simply don't register as notable flaws for me... and I guess that's that. I think we've belaboured this point enough by now, as fun though this may be. Time to let others speak.
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2011-12-07, 02:12 | Link #837 | |
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I have a different entry into the series, so your point may be valid. I started anime-only and moved into the game. This is probably why certain empty threads are more glaring to me but I don't think I'm the only one. Or maybe I am...
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Anyway, yes, let's leave this at that. |
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2011-12-07, 02:27 | Link #838 |
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Argh, I'm not going to get into this, but one important point: I'd say this is not actually the theme of the show, nor it's most central element. As for what it is if not that... I'll let other people speculate, or say more once the show's done.
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eroge, romance, seinen |
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