(L+CR) Shirobako (Mizushima Tsutomu and PA Works)

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Arguing semantics was never the intention. I believe we started this just prizing Shirobako for its somewhat unusual way to deal with the current aesthetic trends without compromising the quality of the story (say what you will but this happens a lot). If the discussion turned into an argument of semantics is because some people got defensive for not reason.

Fair enough, but perhaps there is a point to be made that other ways of putting it might be more beneficial. People aren't defensive for no reason at times.

[Kazu-kun]

Well, if someone comes here saying crap about Shirobako and bitching about its cute girls, then yeah, you can be defensive I guess.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Well, if someone comes here saying crap about Shirobako and bitching about its cute girls, then yeah, you can be defensive I guess.

Right, right, Who would be that stupid anyways? They'd probably use pandering as a circular argument too.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Arguing semantics was never the intention. I believe we started this just prizing Shirobako for its somewhat unusual way to deal with the current aesthetic trends without compromising the quality of the story (say what you will but this happens a lot). If the discussion turned into an argument of semantics is because some people got defensive for no reason.

No, as I said, it seemed to begin when I made what I thought was a non-controversial observation:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Hataraki Man failed to sell even a thousand discs back in 2006, though granted it was not a moe show and was perhaps a bit less dewy-eyed than Shirobako.

Moe is a slippery term, but I do know what it is supposed to mean in terms of both character design and behavior. (I've been here nearly a decade, after all.) Calling Shirobako a "moe show" in comparison to Hataraki Man seemed to flip a switch among some people here who felt, for reasons that I still fail to understand, offended.

But then I don't give a damn that other viewers like to call shows "moeshit" or have other equally over-the-top reactions to what is, after all, just a shorthand for describing a set of genre conventions. Nor do I suspect that most people here are as narrow-minded as that either. "Can't we all get along?"

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Shirobako.

I loved the last episode and shed tears along with Aoi.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Both as far as I can tell.



You guys have to stop being so defensive. You're too caught up in this idea that anyone who even says that word "moe" is insulting what you like. That's not necessarily the case so get over it already.

Its also the case that people wouldn't be overdefensive if the attitude against "moe" in the international community never existed at all.

Too many times, I hear things along the way that some how moe is "less intelligent" "less mature" and "killing the industry"

I don't take them seriously but it would be nice if I didn't see this trend at all.

I'm not even gonna go into the fact that many of them use the word moe wrong to begin with.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Its also the case that people wouldn't be overdefensive if the attitude against "moe" in the international community never existed at all.

We're just a bunch of guys talking about Shirobako on animesuki, so why are you projecting your dissatisfaction with this "international community" on us? Don't do it. We're being pretty civil here. There's no need to be defensive.

Now I think we should move on because we're starting to go totally off topic.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Moe does not need a "standard bearer" or a "better face".

Every fandom term and idea is going to be associated with particular characters or narrative elements. TV Tropes alone ensures that.

So if you like "tsunderes", for example, it's better if the characters it makes people think of go beyond just one particular type of tsundere that can be very polarizing (such as the KugRie Tsundere).


The same is true of moe. There are people out there that when they think "moe", the first thing they think of is ~Uguu. The more that remains the case, the more some people will be missing out on good shows/characters they may well like if they can get beyond this largely incorrect perception, and the more those good shows/characters will not get as wide an audience/fandom as they could.

Anime does not need to make concessions to people who believe that Cowboy Bebop is the be-all end-all of the medium.

Nobody believes that. This is blatant straw-manning on your part.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Rather than trying to convince people like that "moe can be worthwhile too", why not try describing shows as what they are instead of just how they look?

What's stopping either of us from doing both? So you're just raising a false dichotomy here.

That being the case, I don't see the harm in trying to convince people that "moe can be worthwhile too".

My own personal taste in anime grew considerably over the last few years due to individuals like 0utf0xZer0 and Pocari_Sweat who took the time to promote and explain in detail what they liked to me. Both are very open and honest about what they like (and don't like) when it comes to moe.

I doubt I ever watch shows like True Tears and Sola if not for the welcoming and patient and persuasive and very honest arguments of 0utf0xZer0 and Pocari Sweat.

Like telling someone "oh, you like office dramas, you might enjoy Shirobako" rather than having to constantly go REMEMBER DUDE THIS ISN'T LIKE ONE OF THOSE OTHER MOES

The main reason I would point out the moe character designs and elements of this show is to combat negative perceptions of moe. That's obviously the exact opposite of trying to demonize or insult "THOSE OTHER MOES".

I'd love for "healing anime" shows and shows like Clannad and shows like Saki to get more attention, since I think many of them are excellent. And I think one good way to do that is to combat negative perceptions of moe, which in turn will help combat...

I've seen some people dismiss literally everything with a female cast and/or without violence, guns as a "moe anime".

Yes, because they have a negative perception of moe. Change that perception, and more people will be more open to these types of shows.

Refusing to talk about moe at all is obviously not going to change anybody's perception of moe.


Edit: However, this will probably be my last post on this specific topic on this thread. Kazu-kun is right that this tangent is starting to obscure actual series discussion.

[GDiddy]

This show isn't moe. And even if it was, haters gonna hate, still love this show.


On Topic: Is next week the final episode?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I loved the last episode and shed tears along with Aoi.

I never cry watching anime but that scene almost got me. The timing for both comedy and emotional stuff is top notch in this series.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

On Topic: Is next week the final episode?

Well, this week will premiere the final episode of Shirobako! I'll be happy if there's another season to this show...

[HandofFate]

anyone know if for the EXODUS OVA episode, if for the Ending credits, it lists Aoi and everyone else in the anime, or the RL people that made it.

[D-Joe]

Saw there's an Shirobako small event right before ending
http://zakuzaku911.com/archives/4346002.html

And there's The Third Girls Aerial Squad characters setting pictures

Spoiler for Characters:

[speck123]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

anyone know if for the EXODUS OVA episode, if for the Ending credits, it lists Aoi and everyone else in the anime, or the RL people that made it.

There are two version of the episode on the bonus disc, one with the PA works credits and another one with the MusAni credits (which would include Aoi et al)

[Peanutbutter]

Originally Posted by speck123

There are two version of the episode on the bonus disc, one with the PA works credits and another one with the MusAni credits (which would include Aoi et al)

The production assistant for the Exodus OVA in-series was Ochiai. Aoi's name is not in, I recall. You can see a few others too, like goth-loli sama, Iguchi, Ema etc. Surprisingly, there's also Ai Kunogi, who was an in-between animator then.

Thus Ai was actually switched to do key animation in the 2nd part of Shirobako, and not a new employee as I thought. Still, how did she even start with in-between animation in the first place?

[speck123]

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter

The production assistant for the Exodus OVA in-series was Ochiai. Aoi's name is not in, I recall. You can see a few others too, like goth-loli sama, Iguchi, Ema etc. Surprisingly, there's also Ai Kunogi, who was an in-between animator then.

Thus Ai was actually switched to do key animation in the 2nd part of Shirobako, and not a new employee as I thought. Still, how did she even start with in-between animation in the first place?

Well, I stand corrected then.

[ices]

Maybe because Aoi isn't working on that episode. The OVA was the first episode of Exodus. And IIRC, Aoi was PA on episode 4, 8, and the last. Hence her name not in the credit.

Anyway, there is a phone number for Musasi Animation in http://musani.jp and if you call it, you will hear different musani staff speaking different lines each week. And someone said that this week Aoi answer the phone while sobbing but deny herself that she was crying.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ices

Maybe because Aoi isn't working on that episode. The OVA was the first episode of Exodus. And IIRC, Aoi was PA on episode 4, 8, and the last. Hence her name not in the credit.

Yep, that's the reason. The OVA is supposed to be episode 1 and Aoi didn't work in that episode.

She will appear in the Aerial Girls OVA, though she will be credited as Production Desk instead of Production Assistant.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by speck123

There are two version of the episode on the bonus disc, one with the PA works credits and another one with the MusAni credits (which would include Aoi et al)

Or rather, what I've read from online blogs is that you can select which credits you want to run: the Musani one, or the RL one.

[speck123]

Originally Posted by karice67

Or rather, what I've read from online blogs is that you can select which credits you want to run: the Musani one, or the RL one.

I've ripped my BluRay discs to watch whenever I'm away, and there are literally two files with almost the same size on it. Only the credits are different, or more to the point the credits are hard-coded onto each version.

[Myssa Rei]

Haha, seriously, the last episode's title is a reference to both the failed World War 2 Operation Market Garden and the A Bridge Too Far movie based on it? I'm tickled.