AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-05-22, 02:41   Link #8481
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
But it was mental rape, that is, forced violation of someone else's mental integrity. There are no ways around it, that's what it was.

And to be honest, the anal rape gag was bad ever since the first time it was brought up. It basically ruined Chizuru's character reducing her to an one note gag, too.
... Yet by that logic Negi's been violating his students ever since chapter one. It's a manga with fanservice comedy, sexual innuendo is something this manga has been joking with almost every chapter. Why is this gag so special?
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-22, 08:45   Link #8482
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
Whatever else I think about this situation (I've already posted my opinion of Ken and his writing skills/habits) .... a lot of people don't seem to be aware that shoving a large leek up the butt is a Japanese folk remedy for stomach ailments.

There's a reason Hatsune Miku uses one as a "wand" and its not just because has a green coloring - its a comedy item.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-22, 15:19   Link #8483
Merctrin
Immi
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Age: 31
Even when things are clearly being played for comedy, when a preteen character is tearing up from the stress of resisting the mind rape... I personally felt it crossed a line at that point.

On a related note, Negi kissing Luna into revealing herself also struck me as a very disturbing scene. Male character kisses female character without her consent and afterward she's sprawled on the ground with tears in her eyes.

Of course, I freely admit to being overly sensitive.
__________________
Merctrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-22, 17:18   Link #8484
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
Hey I have no plans to defend this massive train wreck ... just placing things in context. It just emanates a middle-finger to management on his way to other things with collateral damage to the fans.

On that note, anyone want to buy my partial set of Del Rey english translation Negima? I stopped buying them a few volumes ago.
(its a joke, just taking them to the book recycle dealer who is likely none the wiser)
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-25, 11:56   Link #8485
OverMaster
Zok, Biff, Pow, Wham.
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Valencia, Venezuela
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
... Yet by that logic Negi's been violating his students ever since chapter one. It's a manga with fanservice comedy, sexual innuendo is something this manga has been joking with almost every chapter. Why is this gag so special?
Hey, at least with some other lowbrow gags, like Yue's peeing, the characters have other facets to their personalities to make up for them. Chizuru is just the Breasts and Anal Abuse girl, which is a sad thing since they had other venues to explore with her (nurture of children, astronomy, friendship with Natsumi, which was shoved aside during Mundus Magicus).

Also, I don't follow your accusation of Negi. The sneeze is something out of his control; he read minds only twice, and never on girls (once, it looked like Takahata was humoring him, the other was against Fate, an enemy); and the only time he tried mindwiping someone, it failed abismally, and he never tried it again. So I don't understand why you'd compare him to Chizuru in terms of willing abuse.

Wasn't there supposed to be a list of ten answers Akamatsu was going to answer the 20th to a fanzine in a con? I guess nothing important ever came out of it, since no info on that has filtered the Internet anywhere.
__________________
Putting a smiley at the end of your sentences doesn't automatically make them funny or cute.
OverMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-25, 18:09   Link #8486
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
How many times did he kiss and disarm girls by ripping their clothes to shreds again? Neither of those are "out of his control."

Again, mountains out of molehills here. With a touch of hypocrisy too. Yes, you can read the onion thing as rape, but that same logic can be used to see Negi's kissing and ripping clothes to shreds as sexual assault as well.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-25, 20:43   Link #8487
OverMaster
Zok, Biff, Pow, Wham.
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Valencia, Venezuela
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
How many times did he kiss and disarm girls by ripping their clothes to shreds again? Neither of those are "out of his control."

Again, mountains out of molehills here. With a touch of hypocrisy too. Yes, you can read the onion thing as rape, but that same logic can be used to see Negi's kissing and ripping clothes to shreds as sexual assault as well.
Kissing Terminator Incident: Out of Negi's fault. Sneezes: Always accidental too. Disarming girls by stripping them: Takane (he didn't mean to and apologized heavily afterward), Chigusa (bitter enemy, and Asuna didn't go easy on her either), Sextum (had just come close to drowning several students), the Ariadne cadets (the only actual alternative were either retreating and losing Yue or actually hurting them. And they did attack first). He didn't even strip Tsukuyomi, who deserved worse than any other female in the series.

Pactio kisses: always either consensual or actually forced by the girls upon Negi. The only exception is Shiori's forced Pactio, which yes, was rather creepy, but at the very least against a then enemy and for a better (even if still arguable) reason than the girls' mere pettiness in the Sports Festival.
__________________
Putting a smiley at the end of your sentences doesn't automatically make them funny or cute.
OverMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-26, 04:08   Link #8488
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
Good grief! Could you miss the point any further? My point is that perverted jokes like that have always been part of Negima and should not be taken this seriously. This includes the onion thing, which I will remind you again is a well-known Japanese folk remedy that is often played for comedy. Using it in a story is about the same level as hitting people on the head to cure amnesia or scaring people to cure hiccups.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-26, 08:04   Link #8489
OverMaster
Zok, Biff, Pow, Wham.
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Valencia, Venezuela
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Good grief! Could you miss the point any further? My point is that perverted jokes like that have always been part of Negima and should not be taken this seriously. This includes the onion thing, which I will remind you again is a well-known Japanese folk remedy that is often played for comedy. Using it in a story is about the same level as hitting people on the head to cure amnesia or scaring people to cure hiccups.
No, you are the one missing my point, although I suspect you're doing it on purpose. This wasn't just a typical onion joke, although that already was in bad taste on itself no matter how old those are (prison rape jokes are old as well, by the way). This was an instance of Akamatsu using that joke to add mental rape on top of it, to the point Negi was tearing up, and by that point, it had stopped being funny so badly it crossed all the way into disgusting territory. Right when most of those girls knew Negi had undergone serious stress protecting their lives. Right when they knew he had experienced the shock of discovering his father had been possessed, and right when he was doing important things to save a whole world. All for the sake of satisfying their curiosities without caring at all about the consequences. Simplify it all you want, it doesn't change the point it was horribly callous, selfish and abusive from 3-A, and it didn't do anything good for Chizuru's character especially since she was the 'executor' hand.

This wasn't done to cure hiccups or amnesia. This was mental intrusion and attempted control just to sate a selfish desire for childish 'revenge' and curiosity from girls who already should know better. Against someone who had literally done almost everything for them.

Good grief, indeed!

Edit: And for the use of the onion gag as something that stalled Chizuru's character even before this, I stand for it. Even if you don't mind the occasional gag on it, this was in the Flanderization level of Makie's 'Fail' joke in the anime, just within the series itself. When you think of Yue, you think of Badass Bookworm. Nodoka is Moe with a streak of badass, Ayaka has several layers for a character with relatively little panel time, Asuna and Chisame are more complex than most Tsunderes, and so on... while Chizuru is Onion-Up-Butt girl. Yeah.
__________________
Putting a smiley at the end of your sentences doesn't automatically make them funny or cute.

Last edited by OverMaster; 2012-05-26 at 08:15.
OverMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-26, 10:09   Link #8490
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
And, again, calling this occasion alone mental rape is hypocrisy. Your interpretation of claiming this to be mental rape while all those times that the girls get stripped (many of those times including tears in their eyes by the way) are not or excusing them is just hypocricy. It's a manga that has been joking with sexual harassment since the first chapter. This is really just more of the same. Both Negi and the girls have been harassed to the point of tears hundreds of times by now. It's half of what the entire series is build on.

And I don't disagree that Chizuru's character development is stalled or that this arc derailed the character of many characters. I agree on that, just scroll back a page and you can see that I'm quite of the opinion that this arc was a waste of pages. I'm just saying that calling this event rape, in any form, is just making a mountain of a molehill and really undeserving of all this flak when there are much, much worse things about the ending.

So, again, do I think the scene was a waste of space and character derailment? Yes. Do I think it warrants being called rape? No.

Last edited by Keroko; 2012-05-26 at 14:34.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-27, 00:30   Link #8491
Merctrin
Immi
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Age: 31
I'm pretty sure the girls getting stripped is categorized as emotionally traumatizing, not mental rape, since mind-control elements were not out and about when their clothes were being destroyed.
__________________
Merctrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-30, 12:06   Link #8492
OverMaster
Zok, Biff, Pow, Wham.
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Valencia, Venezuela
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And, again, calling this occasion alone mental rape is hypocrisy. Your interpretation of claiming this to be mental rape while all those times that the girls get stripped (many of those times including tears in their eyes by the way) are not or excusing them is just hypocricy. It's a manga that has been joking with sexual harassment since the first chapter. This is really just more of the same. Both Negi and the girls have been harassed to the point of tears hundreds of times by now. It's half of what the entire series is build on.

And I don't disagree that Chizuru's character development is stalled or that this arc derailed the character of many characters. I agree on that, just scroll back a page and you can see that I'm quite of the opinion that this arc was a waste of pages. I'm just saying that calling this event rape, in any form, is just making a mountain of a molehill and really undeserving of all this flak when there are much, much worse things about the ending.

So, again, do I think the scene was a waste of space and character derailment? Yes. Do I think it warrants being called rape? No.
Why do you keep pretending I'm only talking about physical rape when I'm mostly meaning mental rape? You know the difference between both things, right? And Chizuru's actions were an attempt to take over a child's mind and force him to do something against his will. Despite the fact he was suffering over it, the fact they had no right to force that private information out of him, and the fact they were old enough to know better.

That's mindrape. You can make a good case for it not being physical rape with Akamatsu's copout of the artifact actually not going up Negi's rectum, but the imagery was still there. Being stripped is one thing, but the image, even if implied and not really true, of rectal impalement is another altogether. Although I agree there are far worse things about the ending.
__________________
Putting a smiley at the end of your sentences doesn't automatically make them funny or cute.
OverMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-30, 15:36   Link #8493
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
I'm not pretending I'm only seeing the physical rape, I'm saying that the same kind of sexual innuendo with potential for trauma if evaluated by real life standards has been happening along the entire manga. On both sides.

I can't change your interpretation of the event (or so the past page has taught me). But I do think (and this was really my main point from the start before we strayed off) that this is taking the criticism to the ending too far. Yeah the ending sucks, but this event needs not be drawn into the realm of over-analysis (and I am just as guilty as you are, given my past few posts on this) to somehow make the ending worse. It was a joke, just like all the other times. It was made for laughs and funs. A waste of pages, but little more than that.

Last edited by Keroko; 2012-05-30 at 16:43.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-05-31, 08:54   Link #8494
ShiroiRyu
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: France
Age: 35
Cover of the last volume :



Beautiful.
__________________
ShiroiRyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-01, 05:59   Link #8495
Von Himmel
エーレンフェストの聖女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
I just noticed that Tsukuyomi.. she's pretty hot when matured ;_;

Also, who's that on the left of Zazie's sister?
__________________
「何かが起こっても、わたくしが守ります」

Von Himmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-01, 09:18   Link #8496
Klashikari
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
The colosseum announcer. Weirdly enough, I can't find Tsukuyomi on the cover.
__________________

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-06-01 at 09:28.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-01, 09:25   Link #8497
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
Top of the page, part of Fate's harem.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-01, 09:30   Link #8498
Klashikari
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
Ah right, next to Shiori.
Color me quite surprised that even Hermann is on the cover, yet Arika isn't. So that pretty much implies big time she died, or her whereabouts are still unknown, even to Nagi.
__________________
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-01, 09:38   Link #8499
ellifeedn
Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York
How can you tell that's Tsukuyomi?
ellifeedn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-01, 10:01   Link #8500
Klashikari
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
The bangs, the black ribbons, and her pink outfit.
__________________
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, fantasy

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.