Angel Beats! - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Wigwams]

Originally Posted by Haak

Um, who exactly was mass disappeared except for the GirlDeMo Band and a load of nobody members that weren't even given names?

It makes sense for the GirlsDeMo band to disappear together. They're supposed to be a group after all. It's how they've defined themselves. If anything, disappearing together only highlights their difference from the other members.

while it is not conclusive, the fact that only 4 of them were beside yuri's bed kinda indicates that the others are gone... moved on or maybe overwhelmed by the shadows?

again, its not a definite indicator of the others disappearing... but it kinda points towards that...

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by TJR

It's designed by marketing checklist. I don't sense any substance or genuine inspiration at all, and it tries hard to be an all-round crowd pleaser by tacking on Maeda's usual melodramatic tricks (the hokey "I wanna get married" routine being the most shameless here) and goofy humor, while relying on a variety of popular hooks (The Matrix, Persona 4, Haruhi) to interest different viewers. In the process, they've attempted too much in a short timespan, allowing the manipulation and overall shallowness to show through.

That said, Angel Beats! is primed to sell like crazy, so it does seem that their attempt has paid off anyway. I have to admit that while I found Angel Beats! to be mediocre from Episode 1, it's a pleasant enough watch even if it's forgettable and poorly conceived at the end of the day.

Yeah, this implies that the scenario planning strategy banks mostly on viewer psychology and not so much the overall quality of the work. For my part, while I felt emotion, the ploy was so shameless and suddenly forced that it left a negative impression at the same time. Maybe that's why those scenes are so polarizing.....a lot of people are easily swept along (even if they may see through it) while others are immediately put off by the artificiality.

By this point in time, I've come to feel the same way about this series. While it has been a bumpy ride, this series is easily forgettable but still not a bad show to watch. Angel Beats! is one of those animes where you watch it once and probably won't come back to it again, at least that's how I feel.

Originally Posted by TJR

Unfortunately, he's well past his writing prime. Maeda is confident in his ability to hook his audience and make them cry, but I think he recognizes that he's hit a creative brick wall.

As a game writer, Maeda already retired after Little Busters! (he wanted to just supervise from that point onward) and after finishing Angel Beats!, he went on indefinite leave. That isn't the sign of an inspired writer, despite the PR spin.

While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with stating that Maeda is "past his writing prime." I really feel that there is no such thing as someone being in their "prime" when it comes to writing. Naturally, there are some who hit a wall and even lose motivation (or inspiration) to write but I feel that anyone can create a well-written story at any point in time. It all depends on the inspiration and maybe that's what Maeda is looking for after finishing Angel Beats.

[Key Board]

This may sound like a really sacrilegious idea to some but, why doesn't he focus on just presenting a good story instead of being so obsessed at making people crying?

As long as he is hung up on that, he is limiting his own options and we are more likely to see things like the Naoi awkward hug scenes in the future

I had the impression that Angel Beats was an attempt to break into the more mainstream market instead of just core Key audiences.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Intel Core i7 Processor
9 GB DDR3 Ram
1 TB HD
ATI Radeon 5870 GPU

$800 Canadian (minus the GPU which I got as an upgrade since it originally came with an NVIDIA GT220) because I got it on a refurb deal at a discount store. Feel free to hate me again everyone.

I can top that

i7 870 (OC to 4.0)
8 GB DDR3 ram
2 TB HD
2 Blu-ray drives
5870 Crossfire setup

We're not even talking about Coolermaster CSX paint job case or my Dell U2711.

In regards to the show, again I feel it's poorly directed and written. They execute particular scenes remarkably well but the scenes don't really flow altogether that well and it seems that they're jumping multiple plot threads.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

I give this episode.... a 8.4 out of 10. The graphics were great as usual, but... the pacing is relatively disappointing.

Hm, so pacing plays a minor part in your evaluation. I for example rate it 4 for being a rushed mess of a ripped-off Matrix.

[Haak]

How exactly is it a rip-off of the Matrix? No doubt they're probably in a virtual reality but the messages and the execution couldn't have been more different. Does the Matrix have slapstick and black humor ( major part of Angel Beats)? No. Does the Matrix involve dealing with the regrets of your past lives (A Major part of Angel Beats)? No. Does Angel Beats allude to the implications of Descartes Third Wave of doubt and rage against the malicious demon responsible (A major part of the Matrix)? Maybe in the very last episode, but it probably won't actually be the most pressing issue, since it never has been from the start. The Matrix isn't the first to do the Platonic Cave, and even if Angel beats is doing it, that doesn't mean it's playing the trope in the same way The Matrix is.

Similar =/= Rip off.

Pretty much everyone has been aware of the pacing problem from the start. It's just that our perception of it varies. It's annoyed me at times but I'm willing to overlook it because there's a lot of other things I've liked. (and it's clear other factors are affecting your perception of the pacing issue, aswell)

[roriconfan]

Oh, in that case Avatar is not like Pocahondas because it has blue Elves. But going further...

Ep 12 was not that much of comedy or slapstick.

The Matrix DOES involve dealing with the regrets of your past lives (see ep 1 and 2 of Animatrix)

I have no idea what this third wave is to tell if there is one.

And why are we all making comparisons to the Matrix and not to any other Platotic Cave type of story? I for once can't think of another one that resembles it THAT much. The second that comes to mind is SE Lain and it's still far different.

[risingstar3110]

I will say that... with only 13 episodes, Angel Beat should cut some of the drama element and have more slice-of-life/adventure. So when the drama comes, it's actually dramatic

It should stay true with one genre/storyline/direction instead of trying so hard to be another by going after everything(and yes, we as audiences are part to blame then). Like playing Clannad, and choose Kyou route, and keeps wondering why this Tomoyo or Nagisa girl appearing from time to time.... I means as game it's reasonable. But anime is not so. Sekine and Irie disappeared and even while i really really like them (read GDM novel), i felt...nothing

It' disappointed. I knows AB can be a big hit, something many others failed to reach even close. But they missed their chances

[roriconfan]

They can always make a prequel/gaiden with the story being shown from the eyes of Kanade. A different path that will flesh out the ones that were thrown in the bin, so to say.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Oh, in that case Avatar is not like Pocahondas because it has blue Elves. But going further...

Bad comparison. And a strawman to boot.
The Avatar ripped off the entire plot. Angel Beats is not ripping off the Matrix's entire plot. I'm arguing that Angel Beats only has superficial similarities.
In The Avatar, the only difference was the setting. In Angel Beats, the only similarity is the setting.

Ep 12 was not that much of comedy or slapstick.

One episode. Of the whole series I'd say pretty much half of it is comedy. Compare to to practically zero in the Matrix.

The Matrix DOES involve dealing with the regrets of your past lives (see ep 1 and 2 of Animatrix)

2 episodes of a side story compared to pretty much the entire point of Angel Beats. I think there's a strong difference.

I have no idea what this third wave is to tell if there is one.

It's the whole 'what is real and what is not?' philosophy. The Philosophy of Skepticism, basically. It's quite apparent in the Matrix, especially the first film. Practically none existent in Angel Beats. if it is mentioned, it will probably only be briefly mentioned in the last episode but be overshadowed by the bigger point of Angel Beats, which is dealing with their regrets.

And why are we all making comparisons to the Matrix and not to any other Platotic Cave type of story? I for once can't think of another one that resembles it THAT much. The second that comes to mind is SE Lain and it's still far different.

Because it's the most well known. And because this involves computers and virtual reality, rather than an illusion or a dream or something else. But again, it's not really that big of a deal. It's just a setting. The way it's use is still vastly different.

[Shyne]

I am hoping for the rest of the answers to come in epi 13. What happens to everyone and what happens to the world they are in and who started the whole thing or something answering its beginning existence.

Epi 12 advanced the story line pretty well and I was questioning how the story can be wrapped up in the last couple epis.

[Marcus H.]

By the way, I've found this quote from relentlessflame on the "What qualifies as well written?" thread on the General Anime Forum. I think this quote should sum up what you think about Angel Beats!.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

A work could be getting failing marks on every checklist experts create, but if it manages to connect with someone in spite of its so-called "shortcomings", who can say that it's a failure to that person? The "guidelines" are only there to possibly help increase your odds of success. But the objective of a writer isn't simply "write well", it's to communicate.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

By the way, I've found this quote from relentlessflame on the "What qualifies as well written?" thread on the General Anime Forum. I think this quote should sum up what you think about Angel Beats!.

And the problem with communicating, is that with some people, sometimes you get a failure to communicate.
When it comes down to this, the success of the anime is based on the individual. I found Angel Beats! very entertaining, if not as beautiful and well-detailed as Clannad or Kanon. It's certainly not as thought-provoking as similar series such Haibane Renmei, but that doesn't mean it got me thinking. Still, I think I was able to receive what Maeda, in relentlessflame's terms, was trying to communicate through Angel Beats!. So was the series successful for me? Yes it was.

The only problem with it is Maeda was trying to do what he's used to doing in a sixty-hour visual novel in a thirteen-episode series. He doesn't have practise in this area of expertise. It doesn't mean he shouldn't try; in fact, it means he should try more, so that he can gain that experience which will allow him to write a story as well-recieved as Clannad or Kanon for an anime plot.
I personally liked that Maeda tried to write a script for an anime. To me, it seems that most creative people in Japan nowadays are thinking: "I'll just make a manga/game/light novel, and when it becomes popular, it'll get an anime adaptation." If you look at upcoming anime, more and more of them are just adaptations, and I've checked. For the last year, we're lucky to get three original anime series a season. I think we had two this season.
I'm not saying anime adaptations are bad, but I think we need more original anime scripts to revive the anime industry from the slump it's been hitting. So that's why series like Angel Beats! are important to me. It's leading the way for good writers like Maeda to write scripts for original anime. If more celebrated writers decided to write an anime script instead of just writing another type of creative media and waiting for an adaptation, things might start to look up.

[Crontica]

Can we all just agree that this suffered the same fate as Umineko? It appears that if you do not prepare for 5 years Taking in consideration how fucking long Fairy tail took to come out for example. Shows of this epically vast caliber will simply choke with an insufficiently allocated budget.

[Marcus H.]

Raiza, I gotta agree on you on that. This series is one of the very few original anime series that I have watched recently. Most of the my anime on MyAnimeList are adaptations.

[Silver Dragon]

I actually find everything to be happening too fast and sudden, if it had more episodes it would have been better. And I'd like to have seen TK and Kanade's pasts. There's also the other SSS members that I think they should have revealed, but that's just my opinion.

It would have made sense for Yuri to disappear, since she seemed complete at least.

[dark998]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Can we all just agree that this suffered the same fate as Umineko? It appears that if you do not prepare for 5 years Taking in consideration how fucking long Fairy tail took to come out for example. Shows of this epically vast caliber will simply choke with an insufficiently allocated budget.

No, we can't. But we can agree than Tsukihime and Umineko are the same thing

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

By the way, I've found this quote from relentlessflame on the "What qualifies as well written?" thread on the General Anime Forum. I think this quote should sum up what you think about Angel Beats!.

I somewhat disagree with that quote but I've already had this argument before. I'll do a quick tl;dr version, there are basic objective standards to writing that people can use to evaluate works. Now if some people don't care about those standards, that's fine. However just because they don't care doesn't make the writing any better. It might not be a failure to that person or group but it certainly can be a failure in regards to objective analysis.

Just because a crappy band can connect to certain teenagers doesn't make it a good band, it just means that the band is good at targeting a certain demographic.

[Thoguht]

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Just because a crappy band can connect to certain teenagers doesn't make it a good band, it just means that the band is good at targeting a certain demographic.

That's all Handel, Haydn and Mozart were doing, targeting a demographic.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Thoguht

That's all Handel, Haydn and Mozart were doing, targeting a demographic.

Partly. There's alot of mathematics behind classical music and music altogether. There's evaluations of how melodies work, rhythm, dynamics, and many more elements come together. I can't remember the exact logic but there are fundamental reasons why certain melodies sound more pleasing than others and so on and so forth.

All those men experimented and helped to further music. Please tell me how some pop bands, that just plainly rip off of other bands, help to further music. I honest to god would love to hear how Hannah Montana has furthered music as a whole or how Justin Bieber has helped to create a new style of pop.