Character Discussion - Accelerator

[LevelSeven]

Herp derp derpalicious, from wiki:

the article you posted also "says":

Ultraviolet (UV) light is electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength shorter than that of visible light, but longer than X-rays, that is, in the range between 400 nm and 100 nm, corresponding to photon energies from 3 eV to 124 eV. It is so-named because the spectrum consists of electromagnetic waves with frequencies higher than those that humans identify as the color violet. These frequencies are invisible to most humans except those with aphakia. Near-UV is visible to a number of insects and birds.

with "shorter than visible light" they mean that the values of uv-rays are in a place where the human eye cant recognize them, they are for us invisible...
honey bees or bees in general can (or only) see the uv rays... but not the human eye...

And before you say UV rays travel at different speed than visible light:

+1 for you

To sum it up: (UV rays = light = visible light) = electromagnetic radiation.

like i said, uv rays != visible light, maybe it is possible to say that uv rays are a part of light but not the same (this depends on the defintion of light)

Oh I know, you just discounted it as large scale attack and downplayed it by the simple fact that Accel blocked it in wwm, something that happens often and he did quite easily. Yup got it.

somehow i get the feeling that you either try to ignore me or you really mean what you post...
or you misunderstood me
i hope it is the latter

i already said why i dont count it (in this case, where we discuss about the possibility of accel turning invisible and still fighting like always), here:
i dont count this case because he stopped it in his white wing mode which is not his usual way of fighting (like it isnt the usual way of touma to fight with IT)

if he starts to fight with his wings all the time than i will gladly accept it but for now:
he used his wings (black or white) only fife times:
vs kihara (brain dead)
vs kakine (berserk)
vs touma (insane)
vs lsdap telesma bomb (+ halo) (until now, his maximum mode)
vs touma (minus the halo)
i dont know why he used his white wings in his fight agaisnt touma but i think that kamachi simply wanted to let the fight look more incredible...

it is similar with toumas IT:
vs izzard
vs mikoto
vs fiamma
vs othinus
it isnt their usual way to fight, touma doesnt sever his right hand and use IT-ex-machina the whole time, the same with accel...

Look up the refractive index of air. Use the formula for refractive index to get LS in atmosphere. And fog is not air, its more water particles floating in air. Or are you going to bring up smog, steam, smoke, nitrogen, etc.?

i dont know why but i can feel a small bit of anger towards me
nevermind, right, fog is not air but it still "slows down" the light...
and thanks for the article, interesting, i didnt thought that temperature can influence light

Or there's no point in for him in doing so.

-1 point
their was, one of the biggest examples:
vs kihara

accel holds the idiot ball and isnt using a gun, he relies on his ability -> turns himself invisible -> kihara tries to punch -> BBOOOMMM!! -> kihara dead
or the part where Worst shot at him, even if he didnt wanted to kill her, he could easily win if he knocked her unconsciouss (but he was already on the edge of breaking down )

[dniv]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

the article you posted also "says":


with "shorter than visible light" they mean that the values of uv-rays are in a place where the human eye cant recognize them, they are for us invisible...
honey bees or bees in general can (or only) see the uv rays... but not the human eye...


+1 for you



like i said, uv rays != visible light, maybe it is possible to say that uv rays are a part of light but not the same (this depends on the defintion of light)



somehow i get the feeling that you either try to ignore me or you really mean what you post...
or you misunderstood me
i hope it is the latter

i already said why i dont count it (in this case, where we discuss about the possibility of accel turning invisible and still fighting like always), here:
i dont count this case because he stopped it in his white wing mode which is not his usual way of fighting (like it isnt the usual way of touma to fight with IT)

if he starts to fight with his wings all the time than i will gladly accept it but for now:
he used his wings (black or white) only fife times:
vs kihara (brain dead)
vs kakine (berserk)
vs touma (insane)
vs lsdap telesma bomb (+ halo) (until now, his maximum mode)
vs touma (minus the halo)
i dont know why he used his white wings in his fight agaisnt touma but i think that kamachi simply wanted to let the fight look more incredible...

it is similar with toumas IT:
vs izzard
vs mikoto
vs fiamma
vs othinus
it isnt their usual way to fight, touma doesnt sever his right hand and use IT-ex-machina the whole time, the same with accel...



i dont know why but i can feel a small bit of anger towards me
nevermind, right, fog is not air but it still "slows down" the light...
and thanks for the article, interesting, i didnt thought that temperature can influence light


-1 point
their was, one of the biggest examples:
vs kihara

accel holds the idiot ball and isnt using a gun, he relies on his ability -> turns himself invisible -> kihara tries to punch -> BBOOOMMM!! -> kihara dead
or the part where Worst shot at him, even if he didnt wanted to kill her, he could easily win if he knocked her unconsciouss (but he was already on the edge of breaking down )

To be fair it wouldn't be an idiot ball since he didn't really need to be creative with his powers to win against everyone he fought. One of the things I really enjoy in this series is that Kamachi is fully aware of the idea that people who have powerful abilities are only as strong as how they decide to use them to win. If you beat a lot of people easily with your ability since they can't figure out how to get around it, then you don't need to come up with anything better, especially if you haven't ever lost and can't understand how broad of a world it is. This is why Accelerator had relied on a few fighting techniques or patterns to win. You could even say that the more powerful your ability is, the less creative you are with it, since you don't need to be creative at all with it to win. On the other hand, with a weaker but still useful ability, you need to explore all of the tricks that accompany it in order to make it fully useful all of the time I.e. Misaka and Touma. But since Accelerator started fighting people who were actually powerful and resourceful with their powers, he was forced to become much more creative and a lot stronger as a result. That's partially how I see it. Given that the Accel manga takes place apparently between the sisters arc and the remnant arc, at least at the beginning, I believe he might use this ability there before he becomes more powerful through other means...

[Neutral]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

with "shorter than visible light" they mean that the values of uv-rays are in a place where the human eye cant recognize them, they are for us invisible...
honey bees or bees in general can (or only) see the uv rays... but not the human eye...

Well duh, human eyes can't perceive the different wavelengths of light. That's why we need to use prism in order to visibly distinguish them. UV's frequency is too low for human eyes to perceive, it is simply absorbed in the cornea and doesn't hit or retinas. The only reason why insects can perceive them is because they have photon absorption mechanism in their eyes.

+1 for you

....

like i said, uv rays != visible light, maybe it is possible to say that uv rays are a part of light but not the same (this depends on the defintion of light)

"Maybe it is possible it is part of light"? It is not part of light, it is a spectrum of light, one of the seven different spectrums of light. And light is a simplified term for visible light.

somehow i get the feeling that you either try to ignore me or you really mean what you post...
or you misunderstood me
i hope it is the latter

Blurb.

Spoiler for TL:

i already said why i dont count it (in this case, where we discuss about the possibility of accel turning invisible and still fighting like always), here:
i dont count this case because he stopped it in his white wing mode which is not his usual way of fighting (like it isnt the usual way of touma to fight with IT)

if he starts to fight with his wings all the time than i will gladly accept it but for now:
he used his wings (black or white) only fife times:
vs kihara (brain dead)
vs kakine (berserk)
vs touma (insane)
vs lsdap telesma bomb (+ halo) (until now, his maximum mode)
vs touma (minus the halo)
i dont know why he used his white wings in his fight agaisnt touma but i think that kamachi simply wanted to let the fight look more incredible...

it is similar with toumas IT:
vs izzard
vs mikoto
vs fiamma
vs othinus
it isnt their usual way to fight, touma doesnt sever his right hand and use IT-ex-machina the whole time, the same with accel...

Herp derp. I cited Fiamma's telesma attack and Gabriel's Sweep as examples of large scale attacks, i.e., attacks that is meant to affect a large area in addition of its intended target.
You said you didn't consider it as a large scale attack for the simple fact that it was blocked by Accel, which surprised me and which is the reason I took issue with your statement. It is as if you say a bomb that failed to destroy its durable target disqualifies it as a bomb for failing its objective. Or, to give other examples in-verse, AC's laser satellites. One of them, Altair-2, is designed to fire a concentrated beam of radiation in its target area, but GROUP destroyed its ground control antenna, which prevented BLOCK from using it. Now, does the satellite's laser no longer qualifies as large scale attack? Or Radiosonde Castle, it failed to crash into AC, thus failing its purpose of demolishing said city, does this disqualify it as large scale attack?
And now, you bring up all this red herrings about the usual fighting methods of Touma and Accelerator, for no apparent reason, since the issue we were discussing are attacks that qualify as large scale attacks.

i dont know why but i can feel a small bit of anger towards me
nevermind, right, fog is not air but it still "slows down" the light...
and thanks for the article, interesting, i didnt thought that temperature can influence light

....

-1 point
their was, one of the biggest examples:
vs kihara

accel holds the idiot ball and isnt using a gun, he relies on his ability -> turns himself invisible -> kihara tries to punch -> BBOOOMMM!! -> kihara dead
or the part where Worst shot at him, even if he didnt wanted to kill her, he could easily win if he knocked her unconsciouss (but he was already on the edge of breaking down )

Refer to dniv's statement.

[LevelSeven]

Spoiler for @dniv:

Originally Posted by dniv

To be fair it wouldn't be an idiot ball since he didn't really need to be creative with his powers to win against everyone he fought. One of the things I really enjoy in this series is that Kamachi is fully aware of the idea that people who have powerful abilities are only as strong as how they decide to use them to win. If you beat a lot of people easily with your ability since they can't figure out how to get around it, then you don't need to come up with anything better, especially if you haven't ever lost and can't understand how broad of a world it is. This is why Accelerator had relied on a few fighting techniques or patterns to win. You could even say that the more powerful your ability is, the less creative you are with it, since you don't need to be creative at all with it to win. On the other hand, with a weaker but still useful ability, you need to explore all of the tricks that accompany it in order to make it fully useful all of the time I.e. Misaka and Touma. But since Accelerator started fighting people who were actually powerful and resourceful with their powers, he was forced to become much more creative and a lot stronger as a result. That's partially how I see it. Given that the Accel manga takes place apparently between the sisters arc and the remnant arc, at least at the beginning, I believe he might use this ability there before he becomes more powerful through other means...

it would be great if this happens but i doubt that (i have no ground to base this on except my feeling )
but i wrote this part a bit confusing:

accel holds the idiot ball and isnt using a gun, he relies on his ability

what i want to say is: he holds the idiot ball for not using a gun, and this even after witnessing that his favorite pattern (jumping and touching, than BBOOOMMM!!!) doesnt work agaisnt amata....

that he didnt use invisibility can have a few reasons (mainly, the fight would be over to quick and accel would never found his black wings )

Spoiler for @neutral:

Well duh, human eyes can't perceive the different wavelengths of light. That's why we need to use prism in order to visibly distinguish them. UV's frequency is too low for human eyes to perceive, it is simply absorbed in the cornea and doesn't hit or retinas. The only reason why insects can perceive them is because they have photon absorption mechanism in their eyes.

ooohhh
cool

"Maybe it is possible it is part of light"? It is not part of light, it is a spectrum of light, one of the seven different spectrums of light. And light is a simplified term for visible light.

thanks for correcting

Herp derp. I cited Fiamma's telesma attack and Gabriel's Sweep as examples of large scale attacks, i.e., attacks that is meant to affect a large area in addition of its intended target.
You said you didn't consider it as a large scale attack for the simple fact that it was blocked by Accel, which surprised me and which is the reason I took issue with your statement. It is as if you say a bomb that failed to destroy its durable target disqualifies it as a bomb for failing its objective. Or, to give other examples in-verse, AC's laser satellites. One of them, Altair-2, is designed to fire a concentrated beam of radiation in its target area, but GROUP destroyed its ground control antenna, which prevented BLOCK from using it. Now, does the satellite's laser no longer qualifies as large scale attack? Or Radiosonde Castle, it failed to crash into AC, thus failing its purpose of demolishing said city, does this disqualify it as large scale attack?

aaaaahhhhhh
you misunderstood me, i never tried to say that the telesma bomb was not a large scale attack...
i wanted to know if their was large scale attacks which hit accel in his esper mode (while relying on his choker) because we talked about:
accel and invisibility,
than dniv mentioned that he would be attacked with a large scale attack and theirfore the invisibility would be useless ("Security >> invisibility")
i was confused about it because of the reason that he could reflect and be invisbile at the same time
we somehow drifted to telesma bomb, etc. etc.

in short:
lsdap telesma bomb = gaint large scale attack

but if we talk about him being hit by a large scale spell than: no,
the only one which hit him was gabriels wings (large scale too) and they was weakened into a extrem version

theirfore: he could be invisible and still reflect, this was what i wanted to say...

And now, you bring up all this red herrings about the usual fighting methods of Touma and Accelerator, for no apparent reason, since the issue we were discussing are attacks that qualify as large scale attacks.

no this wasnt what we discussed (look above)
i dont even knwo what we discussed their was some stuff about llight and than attacks...
i tried to tell you that for this case i dont count the telesma bomb (this case = can accel be hit by a large scale attack -> until now, he wasnt..... theirfore: can he be hit while he is invisible? -> until now, i doubt that...) since he stopped it in his w.w.m. which isnt his usual fighting style (his usual way of fighting doesnt involve his wings (until now), theirfore: he would be invisible while using his choker and not the wings (maybe) )

so...finally the misunderstandings are cleared

[Neutral]

@LevelSeven
This is what we were talking about:

Spoiler for Light and laser:

Or something related to shown image.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by Neutral

@LevelSeven
This is what we were talking about:

Spoiler for Light and laser:

Or something related to shown image.

[dniv]

Spoiler for For Novel readers Only:

I wanted to see how far Accelerator has progressed along the Kübler-Ross model (the five stages of grief).

Accelerator wanted to deny that the sisters were people that he slaughtered because ever since he killed Misaka 1, he couldn't think of them as innocent people or else he would just be some cold-blooded killer when he really just unconsciously or perhaps better-said subconsciously wanted to be someone who wouldn't be challenged by others so he wouldn't have to hurt them anymore. Then in full force denial he tried to exert his power over everything else as a path to level 6 so he could screw the "rules" or the "reality" in front of him and decide what justice was himself.

Later on, Accelerator got pissed off at Academy City, which is the place responsible for the terrible things that are happening to everyone that is involved, as he showed when he tried to attack the windowless building.

Bargaining then set on when Accelerator tried to protect the sisters so that he could atone for his past actions.

Depression may have happened during his fight(s) with Kakine and Worst.

Acceptance happened during WWIII and after his second fight with Kakine. What do you guys think?

The model doesn't exactly apply since AIM screws with the emotions of everyone involved, but there seems to be some sort of pattern to how Accelerator has matured throughout this...

[Kyouka]

so now he's 0-3 with touma im kind of sad

[human013]

So I read a spoiler somewhere that said one character punched Accelerator which knocked him back into a wall, then he reflected off the wall towards another punch, turning him into something like a pinball. Has Accelerator ever been pushed back from an attack with his reflection still active? besides Touma and the attack from Fiamma's floating structure.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by human013

So I read a spoiler somewhere that said one character punched Accelerator which knocked him back into a wall, then he reflected off the wall towards another punch, turning him into something like a pinball. Has Accelerator ever been pushed back from an attack with his reflection still active? besides Touma and the attack from Fiamma's floating structure.

it wasnt like that, a vending machine was thrown at him, he relfected it back, the person who throw it had super-strength, so he punched it back, accel reflected the vending machine and that was like a pinball match

it happens in a crossover which is non-canon

[Accelerator fan]

it happens in a crossover which is non-canon

Will this crossover ever be translated ?

However what do you think about this

Spoiler for Light novel:

Accelerator white Wings some people say that he ascent to the Aeon of Horus with these wings is that right? and if it is right shouldn't he be able to defeat Aiwass' i mean if they have the same power Accelerator will properly win. a guy who have no motivation to fight and want to die can't beat a guy who fights smartly and never underestimate his opponent

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by Accelerator fan

Will this crossover ever be translated ?

no idea, i didnt see anything regrading that, i heard that js06 (the normal guy to translates toaru) doesnt like crossovers, therefore he wont translate this :/

Spoiler for Light novel:

Accelerator white Wings some people say that he ascent to the Aeon of Horus with these wings is that right? and if it is right shouldn't he be able to defeat Aiwass' i mean if they have the same power Accelerator will properly win. a guy who have no motivation to fight and want to die can't beat a guy who fights smartly and never underestimate his opponent

Spoiler for answer:

Accelerator white Wings some people say that he ascent to the Aeon of Horus with these wings is that right?

nope, the info is wrong, white-wing-accel isnt in horus (or whatever else...we dont even know what that means :/ )

and if it is right shouldn't he be able to defeat Aiwass' i mean if they have the same power Accelerator will properly win.

and: maybe, i dont know, clealry white wing accel has no chance against aiwass since aiwass is aleisters goal and aleister is above a power-up-majin (NT13-majins)who is above a normal-majin(othinus)

a guy who have no motivation to fight and want to die can't beat a guy who fights smartly and never underestimate his opponent

this has 1 issue: if the enemy is FAR beyond the attackers lvl it wont change anything :/
like the ending of NT9 where several powerful magical attacks was about to hit othinus and she only thought that this could at most scratch her skin :/

and aiwass didnt even give that much thought, a automatic defense system kills anyone who tries to harm aiwass because he is precious for aleister and he mostlikely cant afford to lose him for a unknown amount of time :/

[Accelerator fan]

no idea, i didnt see anything regrading that, i heard that js06 (the normal guy to translates toaru) doesnt like crossovers, therefore he wont translate this :/

Doesn't like crossovers that is not a reason there are a lot of fan who went to read the crossover this is selfish.

Spoiler for The reply:

nope, the info is wrong, white-wing-accel isnt in horus (or whatever else...we dont even know what that means :/ )

I had a feeling it was wrong thanks for confirming it

and: maybe, i dont know, clealry white wing accel has no chance against aiwass since aiwass is aleisters goal and aleister is above a power-up-majin (NT13-majins)who is above a normal-majin(othinus)

Will so much for that but is aleister really above the magic gods he seemed to have a hard time against them when they fought?

cant afford to lose him for a unknown amount of time

What do you mean can aiwass regenerate or something


However i guess i have to rely on level 6 Accelerator some people say it's the level of magic god some people say it's a multi body being that exist in multiple dimensions and can warp realty they say it's to know the answer of god but what dose that even mean
aleisters said he can't use it in his plan because it's not good enough does this mean that level 6 is weak. theories and questions will we ever find the answer???

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by Accelerator fan

Doesn't like crossovers that is not a reason there are a lot of fan who went to read the crossover this is selfish.

dont rely on me, im only saying what i heard fomr someone else :/
either way, he is translating toaru without getting paid, i would think that forcing him into it is actually the selfish part

Spoiler for reply to reply:

I had a feeling it was wrong thanks for confirming it

no problem...

Will so much for that but is aleister really above the magic gods he seemed to have a hard time against them when they fought?

he surived a fight with every magic god in their special dimension where they are (even the ones who got send way off-screen) at full power...
i would think that it qualifies him as someone above a majin :/

What do you mean can aiwass regenerate or something

yeah, form what he said in Vol.19 it seems like that even if accel had managed to "kill" him, he would show up again, mayb in a week, a month, a year, 10 years or even 10,000 years

However i guess i have to rely on level 6 Accelerator some people say it's the level of magic god some people say it's a multi body being that exist in multiple dimensions and can warp realty they say it's to know the answer of god but what dose that even mean

there are a lot more, mostlikely it is a being who doesnt think like a human anymore since his being went into another dimension (like the stuff which gensei said in the daihaseisai experiment)...

aleisters said he can't use it in his plan because it's not good enough does this mean that level 6 is weak.

yeah, it seems like he wants a Lvl7

theories and questions will we ever find the answer???

right now i actually doubt that we will get anything like a detailed answer to all this stuff, at least we will get to know his real goal :/

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by Accelerator fan

Doesn't like crossovers that is not a reason there are a lot of fan who went to read the crossover this is selfish.

I swear, some people are so entitled over stuff they read for free. js06 is under no obligation to translate the LNs, and he does an amazing job as it is compared to some LNs series can get stalled for months. Have some respect.

[Accelerator fan]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven
dont rely on me, im only saying what i heard fomr someone else :/
either way, he is translating toaru without getting paid, i would think that forcing him into it is actually the selfish part

Yeah i guess you're right we shouldn't push him he is doing it for free after all

Originally Posted by allfictions
I swear, some people are so entitled over stuff they read for free. js06 is under no obligation to translate the LNs, and he does an amazing job as it is compared to some LNs series can get stalled for months. Have some respect.

You're right i am sorry i should respect him more.

Spoiler for Another reply:

he surived a fight with every magic god in their special dimension where they are (even the ones who got send way off-screen) at full power...
i would think that it qualifies him as someone above a majin :/

wow i guess i underestimated him

there are a lot more, mostlikely it is a being who doesnt think like a human anymore since his being went into another dimension (like the stuff which gensei said in the daihaseisai experiment)...

if so then he will be nigh invisible you will have to go to every dimension and beat him there how long will that be and if he doesnt think like a human he will find a way to stop you outside the box.

yeah, it seems like he wants a Lvl7

WHAAA a Lvl 7 you must be kidding there is no real evidence that it even exist however i think Aleister went Accelerator for another reason he is the "Main Plan" after all maybe he went his Wings to evolve into something else his Wings show Signs of been from the Science Side and the magic side maybe he went an overpowered hybrid

right now i actually doubt that we will get anything like a detailed answer to all this stuff, at least we will get to know his real goal :/

His real goal isn't that to turn Earth into an artificial heaven and make people into artificial angels.

[tsunade666]

-_-

its not clear if Aleister is higher than majin or not but its clear that Aleister is not a majin. He hates majin and even strap himself into a machine to stop his body from producing mana or refining his life force.

As for Aiwass, the majin mocks him as a failure but to Aleister. Aiwass is a different path from the majin.

We still can't say which is higher level of existence from what was shown.

As for accelerator's wings. Black wings is osiris format and white wings is probably horus format. I didn't read much about those but its a theory for it and Aiwass did explain that Accelerator is outdated when they first met.

[Accelerator fan]

What tsunade666 says that the white wings is horus format and LevelSeven says it's not.

Who am i supposed to believe guys i am new here so i don't know what to do?

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by Accelerator fan

maybe he went an overpowered hybrid

No, Aleister wants magic destroyed, why would he want a Magician Esper hybrid?

His real goal isn't that to turn Earth into an artificial heaven and make people into artificial angels.

No, that was Tsuchimikado's conjecture, which Aleister, being a troll, neither denied nor confirmed it. All we know is that:

1. He wants to destroy magic.
2. He wants to activate an AIM Field across the whole globe, possibly to make magic impossible to do in accord to the first goal. No, it does not make people artificial angels, which is a term that applies strictly to Kazakiri.
3. He wants to make a "trinity" out of Accelerator, Last Order, and Kazakiri.
4. He is keeping Aiwass around, and tried to create a copy of it with Kazakiri.
5. His plan is apparently extremely similar to Fiamma's and rests on the Imagine Breaker and a "temple" that could be Academy City.
6. He wants to reach the "Pure World of science" beyond all layers.
7. All of this is related to the Aeon of Horus.

Originally Posted by Accelerator fan

What tsunade666 says that the white wings is horus format and LevelSeven says it's not.

Who am i supposed to believe guys i am new here so i don't know what to do?

It's a plausible hypothesis, but nothing in canon have confirmed anything about it.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by allfictions

No, Aleister wants magic destroyed, why would he want a Magician Esper hybrid?

mostlikely he wants something that goes beyond magic and science :/

Spoiler for @allfiction:

2. He wants to activate an AIM Field across the whole globe, possibly to make magic impossible to do in accord to the first goal. No, it does not make people artificial angels, which is a term that applies strictly to Kazakiri.

i dont think that the banning of magic is the reason for this, nouken already said that with his archetype controller he could destroy the magic side but because of reasons he didnt do it :/ if the bannishment of magic is the goal than he would have already reached that :/

3. He wants to make a "trinity" out of Accelerator, Last Order, and Kazakiri.

he already can do it, he mentioned it in Vol.12, he can create the trinity in order to create a Lvl6 but he needs to go beyond that

7. All of this is related to the Aeon of Horus.

agree...

It's a plausible hypothesis, but nothing in canon have confirmed anything about it.

the white wings are not finished, i wouldnt think that he actually reached such lvl, furthermore,
accel in with white wings shouldnt even be harmed by "ordinary"(osiris aeon) things if he truly was turning into a being from horus