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Old 2011-12-19, 14:48   Link #18481
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post

There is cheap labor all over Asia. NK is cheaper then China overall but is it cheaper then Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia or Laos? As far as China itaself, only the exterior part of China is getting expensive, the interior is still extremely cheap.

the US has a southern fence to keep put Mexicans too. Guess what, it doesn't work.


I am not saying N/SK unification won't workout eventually but the initial cost is going to bankrupt SK. The SK government knows that, that is why they won't do anything to bring down the NK government. As long as NK exist, what happen in the north is not their problem.
There is no point comparing to SE Asia's labor. The one thing that I am looking at most is cooperation with Russia. Because of the close proximity with Russia, North Koreans would be the ideal laborer for development of the natural resources there.

As for fences, the border in America is about 12 times longer and Korea has lot of mountains that would make it difficult to cross over.

And I definitely agree with you that a reunification now would have problem for the South, so I been calling for gradual reunification
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Old 2011-12-19, 14:58   Link #18482
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
There is no point comparing to SE Asia's labor. The one thing that I am looking at most is cooperation with Russia. Because of the close proximity with Russia, North Koreans would be the ideal laborer for development of the natural resources there.
i think there are enough poor Russians that can be use for cheap labor before Russia need to hire north koreans for it.

Quote:
As for fences, the border in America is about 12 times longer and Korea has lot of mountains that would make it difficult to cross over.
Small or large, those fences won't work.
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Old 2011-12-19, 14:59   Link #18483
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
1. East Germany had its own natural resource and it still almost bankrupt West Germany
East Germany had next to no resources, especially when compared to DPRK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
2. It will takes several yrs to bring those mines up to the proper safety protocol unless you think those mines should be open without proper safe guards.
Give or take a few month. Koreans are notorious for being very fast with construction, and also keeping things safe at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
3. Whether NK is administer as separate form SK or as one country it doesn't matter as the cost is still the same.
ROK will not be paying much out of its own pocket except to feed the people up north, and that doesn't even require extra funds because..... (look below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
4. How do you plan to stop North Koreans form moving south? Are you going to shoot them? A line on a political map means nothing to desperate people and the people in North Korea is desperate.
Just maintain the DMZ, while sending the surplus rice north. ROK already produces enough rice to feed everyone on the peninsula, and the ROK government has been stockpiling surplus rice to keep prices high. Just sending all those grain up north would be enough to feed DPRK for the next decade or so. Better people food than livestock fodder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i think there are enough poor Russians that can be use for cheap labor before Russia need to hire north koreans for it.
That totally explains all the DPRK lumberers working in the Russian Far East.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Small or large, those fences won't work.
Keeping only the DMZ up is enough. Any floods into PRC would mean massacre, and with ROK sending food, why move to the unknown outside?
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Old 2011-12-19, 15:09   Link #18484
Endless Soul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post

Madness.
Mandatory mourners are mandatory.

EDIT: Scratch that. On second thought these people believed in Kim Il enough that those are probably real tears without having to be told to whip up some tears or else.

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Last edited by Endless Soul; 2011-12-19 at 15:19.
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Old 2011-12-19, 15:26   Link #18485
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post

Madness.
Not madness, that is the perfect example of how the media can indoctrinate people to believe almost anything. Mr Kim was portrait as an almost divine figure by schools, news papers, radio and TV. When Kim's father died it was even worse than what you see now.

Please don't laugh at those poor people, for we are just as indoctrinated as they are. We talk about freedom as if we actually had any, but in really our freedoms are just an illusion of a limited set of choices given by the system and showcased as opportunities. We all hate the word "socialism", and we all worship money.

Don't even get me started on religion, it is so easy to compare it to media indoctrination that lines that separate them are almost invisible.

These are all forms of control, I wish my signature was actually applied throughout the world. We need to develop our critical thinking.
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Old 2011-12-19, 15:42   Link #18486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
These are all forms of control, I wish my signature was actually applied throughout the world. We need to develop our critical thinking.
regarding you sig...
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Old 2011-12-19, 15:54   Link #18487
justsomeguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
These are all forms of control, I wish my signature was actually applied throughout the world. We need to develop our critical thinking.
I would love to see an education system that doesn't do any sort of indoctrination.

Otherwise, your post is right on. Those people crying is creepy, they're acting like one of their own parents died. I'm still wondering how people can be so effectively brainwashed that the military full of conscripts does not rebel.
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:03   Link #18488
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Not madness, that is the perfect example of how the media can indoctrinate people to believe almost anything.
What about FOX NEWS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Please don't laugh at those poor people, for we are just as indoctrinated as they are. We talk about freedom as if we actually had any, but in really our freedoms are just an illusion of a limited set of choices given by the system and showcased as opportunities. We all hate the word "socialism", and we all worship money.
Indeed. America in its current state is ridiculously laughable. We have a Congress whose job approval is so bad -- Communism is preferred.

As much as it is convenient to blame the government and its parts for this malfunction, the people are part of that system. Therefore, we take some of the blame for putting douschebags into office. So thankfully, we have ways to rectify this problem. Thanks to the First Amendment and the value of rights, it is hard to imagine America going so far to be like North Korea.
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:09   Link #18489
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Some of them seem legit, but I can't shake the feeling that a lot them are ... Faking it?
I read a book where a lot of people had to fake their crying when Kim Il Sung died, so yeah, probably.
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:14   Link #18490
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
I read a book where a lot of people had to fake their crying when Kim Il Sung died, so yeah, probably.
I doubt it was "a lot" of people.
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:19   Link #18491
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Was Stalin's death mourned like this back inte 1950s?
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:36   Link #18492
Haak
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The sectarian war that everyone could see bursting out once the US left is almost about to begin:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16256830
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:44   Link #18493
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I doubt it was "a lot" of people.
Okay, you've got me there...the book I read mentioned one woman faking her tears, who later defected, but given that so many people were driven to do so (or run away to China), it's probable that many of them also had to fake their tears when the Eternal Leader died. Add to that those people who simply don't have a habit of crying, and you'd have a large number already.

Quote:
Was Stalin's death mourned like this back inte 1950s?
It was worse. So many people congregated in Red Square that they got out of control and fifteen hundred were trampled to death by the crowds. Even in death, Stalin was capable of leading others to their demise.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:06   Link #18494
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
The sectarian war that everyone could see bursting out once the US left is almost about to begin:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16256830
that didn't take long.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:12   Link #18495
Ithekro
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For a people that are generally sterotyped as being argumentive....no that didn't take very long.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:15   Link #18496
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
Okay, you've got me there...the book I read mentioned one woman faking her tears, who later defected, but given that so many people were driven to do so (or run away to China)
You mean AFTER Kim Il Sung's death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
It was worse. So many people congregated in Red Square that they got out of control and fifteen hundred were trampled to death by the crowds. Even in death, Stalin was capable of leading others to their demise.
It was only worse because of disorderly conduct, something you would hardly see in DPRK. If DPRK was like the USSR, we would have seen tens of thousands being crushed after Kim Il Sung's death.



One thing that is undeniable: Almost everyone of the average people loved or at least respected Kim Il Sung, even with all his faults. Unbelievable to most, but the truth nevertheless.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:26   Link #18497
Ithekro
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Cult of Personality. At least that is was Stalin had.

That and 30 years of power, plus victory in the war.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:41   Link #18498
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
1. East Germany had its own natural resource and it still almost bankrupt West Germany
Really? What natural resources would that be? Other than a bit of brown coal? Pretty much nothing ^_^;

But nah, "almost bankrupted" us is too much. It only cost lots of years of transfer payments and a rise of ~20% national debt relative to GNP. Painful for a while, but manageable.

Quote:
4. How do you plan to stop North Koreans form moving south? Are you going to shoot them? A line on a political map means nothing to desperate people and the people in North Korea is desperate.
Don't underestimate the natural disposition of people - especially elder ones - to remain where they are. We had the same issue during Germany's reunification. The answer: Infrastructure programs and transfer payments. No way around that.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:43   Link #18499
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
I would love to see an education system that doesn't do any sort of indoctrination.
To be honest, it's kind of difficult as any opinion given by a figure of authority could act as a attempt to indoctrination . The way would be to give only informations, but even that could work as you just have to choose what information to give to the students.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:47   Link #18500
justsomeguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
To be honest, it's kind of difficult as any opinion given by a figure of authority could act as a attempt to indoctrination . The way would be to give only informations, but even that could work as you just have to choose what information to give to the students.
I was actually being sarcastic. Even an education system that teaches critical thinking and not trusting the media would still be instilling the belief that nothing the media presents can be trusted (with the result that nobody will bother staying up to date on current events since the news would not be believed).
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