Character Discussion - Kallen

[Arbitres]

I don't see why we should drop this. No one is killing the other, it's about Kallen (uh, kinda), and while the discussion might indeed end up going in cycles, we are free to waste our time however we want. xD

Not when it's making Kallen fans seem like a waste of space like the Clu-Clux Clan was.

I can understand the need to argue and do discussion. But this is nothing short of beating a dead horse. We get it, okay? Compromise! Compromise! Promise to com-un-ic-ate. Got it?

Drop it, Please. If you love Kallen, you know what must be done. Live and let live.... Before I start making threats... like bombing Clovis Land (...Nogi won't respond well to that one.)

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Not when it's making Kallen fans seem like a waste of space like the Clu-Clux Clan was.

I can understand the need to argue and do discussion. But this is nothing short of beating a dead horse. We get it, okay? Compromise! Compromise! Promise to com-un-ic-ate. Got it?

Drop it, Please. If you love Kallen, you know what must be done. Live and let live.... Before I start making threats... like bombing Clovis Land (...Nogi won't respond well to that one.)

its just a conversation

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

her mother mentions that now that kallen's a britannian she "can go to a britannian school and not be bullied anymore"

By the Britannians, I thought. She also talks about being able to use a phone and go shopping.
Hm... no, with Kallen being all, "yay Japan, grrr Britannia", much like Suzaku as a child, I just can't imagine it.

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Live and let live.... Before I start making threats... like bombing Clovis Land (...Nogi won't respond well to that one.)

This is like telling Lelouch you are planning to poke Nunnally to death.
In other words: not a good idea. xD

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Ah, now after the edit, I get it. xD
But seeing how attached Kallen is to Japan and how lowly she thinks of Britannians in the beginning, I have trouble believing she was treated too badly.
Lelouch had no one to protect him, was a "pure" Britannian and a prince at that. I've seen nothing that suggests that Kallen's childhood wasn't a happy one.

Kallen's mother said she wouldn't be "picked on anymore" once she became a Britannian in Stage 9. As I said before, apply even a third of what Lelouch got at the Kururugi shrine to the first 14 years of Kallen's life, and it would be anything but pleasant.

As for her attachement to Japan, it was where she was born and raised, and despite how others may have viewed her, her mother and brother were both an oasis of love and acceptance for her. When Britannia attacked and oppressed the Japanese, including the her family, it isn't hard to see where her will to fight came from.

However, she seemed able to see both sides of the conflict, as she did show remorse for the Britannians she killed at several points.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

By the Britannians, I thought. She also talks about being able to use a phone and go shopping.
Hm... no, with Kallen being all, "yay Japan, grrr Britannia", much like Suzaku as a child, I just can't imagine it.

It didn't have to be like this. She was likely too young to really comprehend the global situation until after the invasion and at this point her Japanese experiences had a balance of abuse and affection while her Britannian experiences consisted of an absentee father, and an invasion when she is only 10, which turned her family into second class citizens and made their life even more difficult for arbitrary reasons.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Kallen's mother said she wouldn't be "picked on anymore" once she became a Britannian in Stage 9. As I said before, apply even a third of what Lelouch got at the Kururugi shrine to the first 14 years of Kallen's life, and it would be anything but pleasant.

As for her attachement to Japan, it was where she was born and raised, and despite how others may have viewed her, her mother and brother were both an oasis of love and acceptance for her. When Britannia attacked and oppressed the Japanese, including the her family, it isn't hard to see where her will to fight came from.

However, she seemed able to see both sides of the conflict, as she did show remorse for the Britannians she killed at several points.

All right, I can imagine Kallen being mistreated by her peers after the invasion, but not before that. In the first few episodes, she makes it clear that she doesn't think highly of even Britannian civilians, while she never loses a bad word about the Japanese.
If they mistreated her after the invasion, she could rationalize that, but before... not so much. I also think she'd have turned out a little differently, more awkward in social interaction in general, but you never know.

If Kallen had really gotten beat up, and it had been that bad for her as a child, I think there'd at least be a Picture Drama where her suffering is mentioned. She might just have beaten some guys up once and earned people's respect, or her brother might have been so popular in town no one ever cared. Speaking of her brother, Naoto was half Britannian, too, yet he was accepted as the leader of a resistance group.
Lelouch was in a fairly unique situation, with no one to protect him and not at all familiar with the people around him - and he was the prince of an enemy nation, not to mention male. Young boys might be a lot more reluctant to harm girls because they've been taught that you just don't do that. Suzaku also beat up Lelouch, yet I don't think he'd have done the same to Nunnally even if she hadn't been handicapped.

[Bonzo]

At last, for Kallen past, considering the anime explain nothing, you can use the theorical past I written in the comic I did on purpose for that.

Maybe that isn't more far from the truth, I added the few info explained in the anime.

You can find it few page behind in this topic.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

All right, I can imagine Kallen being mistreated by her peers after the invasion, but not before that. In the first few episodes, she makes it clear that she doesn't think highly of even Britannian civilians, while she never loses a bad word about the Japanese.
If they mistreated her after the invasion, she could rationalize that, but before... not so much. I also think she'd have turned out a little differently, more awkward in social interaction in general, but you never know.

If Kallen had really gotten beat up, and it had been that bad for her as a child, I think there'd at least be a Picture Drama where her suffering is mentioned. She might just have beaten some guys up once and earned people's respect, or her brother might have been so popular in town no one ever cared. Speaking of her brother, Naoto was half Britannian, too, yet he was accepted as the leader of a resistance group.

Her development was said to have been moved to the second season before the infamous revisions. Naoto conceivably looked Japanese. If Kallen could pass for a full Britanian in Ashford, then it's possible Naoto could pass for full Japanese. We don't even know how Naoto's life went. He may have had to go through a lot to befriend Ohgi and the others.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Lelouch was in a fairly unique situation, with no one to protect him and not at all familiar with the people around him - and he was the prince of an enemy nation, not to mention male. Young boys might be a lot more reluctant to beat up girls because they've been taught that you just don't do that. Suzaku also beat up Lelouch, yet I don't think he'd have done the same to Nunnally even if she hadn't been handicapped.

Nonetheless he did end up in Ashford, and got a pretty cushy life after the invasion, something he had before Marianne's death as well, while Kallen grew up in a single parent household that had two children until she was 10, before the invasion when her family was dumped in a ghetto.

As well, Lelouch had a Britannian face and was on the dominant side of the pecking order, while Kallen, despite her Britannian face, would have been well known by then as "the half-breed girl."

You never know about the violence. Lelouch was attacked by three kids at once, and being kicked in the head seems pretty brutal to me.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

If Kallen had really gotten beat up, and it had been that bad for her as a child, I think there'd at least be a Picture Drama where her suffering is mentioned.

we don't even know how her brother died

this is code geass we're talking about here
if your name aint Lelouch, then you don't get too much attention

[Arbitres]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

its just a conversation

....Stick up ass, that's why. Now stop smiling Blade, your freaking me out X) lol

Kallen probably was picked on for being cuter and more epic then any other kid in her grade. Plus she was japanese, that probably made all the pompous Britannians jealous. She is just that cool.

On a seriously know, Kallen might have been able to see from both perspectives, which might have darkened her on the japanese side more then anything -- The Britannian citizens had everything the Japanese had, while the japanese were forced to be A. slaves with prettied names, aka 'Honorary Britannians'. B. Live in the ghetto, die in gutters, and get hooked on refrain as a means of escape. Or C. Fight in the resistance.

Britannia 'Built on their sacrifice', that was truth in all actuality. I'd have to ask... What is wrong with Kallen doing what she was doing? Actually, in the certain perspective, what was wrong? We can agree both sides had motives, and that seems good enough.

Compromise: Kallen is cool, awesome, and beautiful. Bright as the sun and cool as the wind of night. The voice of an angel, and with the curves of Ishtar (Not calling her Ishtar, just saying she is incredibly beautiful.)

Kallen's choices were based on what she lived through, and how she was formed by it as a result. How she coped, how she survived, and what she ultimately chose to do about it is all in her character. Kind of like how Charles was.

....Maybe we could talk more about Kallen's hair and Devicer suit? C'mon... anyone ever wanted to play with her bangs? I think she looks good in her devicer suits. Anyone else? *fruitless attempt*

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Her development was said to have been moved to the second season before the infamous revisions. Naoto conceivably looked Japanese. If Kallen could pass for a full Britanian in Ashford, then it's possible Naoto could pass for full Japanese. We don't even know how Naoto's life went. He may have had to go through a lot to befriend Ohgi and the others.



Nonetheless he did end up in Ashford, and got a pretty cushy life after the invasion, something he had before Marianne's death as well, while Kallen grew up in a single parent household that had two children until she was 10, before the invasion when her family was dumped in a ghetto.

As well, Lelouch had a Britannian face and was on the dominant side of the pecking order, while Kallen, despite her Britannian face, would have been well known by then as "the half-breed girl."

You never know about the violence. Lelouch was attacked by three kids at once.

Lelouch lived in fear of being abandoned and ending up with Nunnally as political pawns again while living under the Ashfords.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by azul120

Lelouch lived in fear of being abandoned and ending up with Nunnally as political pawns again while living under the Ashfords.

This.

I suppose it's really not clear in Kallen's case, but she and Naoto looked pretty similar, so maybe by anime-logic, they could both pass as whatever they wanted to? Either that, or that one picture of him is incredibly misleading.
Besides, while we don't know how Naoto died, even Clovis got his own Sound Drama! Kallen is one of the characters the show seemed to like best, so I can't imagine the staff missing up on a chance to point out just how tragic her past was. (Then again, traditionally it's the main character and maybe his rival who are supposed to have the worst past, so maybe they indeed didn't want to steal Lelouch the spotlight. xD)
Ah, well, let's just agree she had her reasons, and so did Lelouch - though to me, Lelouch remains the one with the worst past.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by azul120

Lelouch lived in fear of being abandoned and ending up with Nunnally as political pawns again while living under the Ashfords.

I'm not saying it was perfect, but he still had a clean roof over his head, 3 meals a day, and friends.

Kallen was bumped into a filthy ghetto full of desperate Japanese, and she looks just like the people who put them there.

It was vaguely implied that Nina was assaulted or even raped in a ghetto in Stage 8. Kallen had to live in fear of this, or worse for years.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Not when it's making Kallen fans seem like a waste of space like the Clu-Clux Clan was.

I can understand the need to argue and do discussion. But this is nothing short of beating a dead horse. We get it, okay? Compromise! Compromise! Promise to com-un-ic-ate. Got it?

Drop it, Please. If you love Kallen, you know what must be done. Live and let live.... Before I start making threats... like bombing Clovis Land (...Nogi won't respond well to that one.)

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

its just a conversation

Seriously Arby. Do you think this thread has almost 23000 posts because people are conservative about what they talk about?

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I'm not saying it was perfect, but he still had a clean roof over his head, 3 meals a day, and friends.

Kallen was bumped into a filthy ghetto full of desperate Japanese, and she looks just like the people who put them there.

Kallen had friends, too, though, and I don't think many of those desperate Japanese wanted to mess with terrorists.

It was vaguely implied that Nina was assaulted or even raped in a ghetto in Stage 8. Kallen had to live in fear of this, or worse for years.

It wasn't implied that Nina was raped. I have no idea where that comes from.
It sounded more to me like she got lost there at a school excursion or something, which in itself can be pretty traumatizing for some people.

Kallen's past is largely speculation, while Lelouch's is pretty clear - that, and the way they turned out. Kallen doesn't show any signs of having been abused, though that might or might not mean anything.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

It wasn't implied that Nina was raped. I have no idea where that comes from.
It sounded more to me like she got lost there at a school excursion or something, which in itself can be pretty traumatizing for some people.

I mean it was implied that something happened to her that was pretty awful as she shows much more fear towards the Japanese than the other Ashford students and is jumpy about even leaving the settlement. Milly distinguished that where they were going was "nothing like the ghettos."

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Kallen's past is largely speculation, while Lelouch's is pretty clear - that, and the way they turned out. Kallen doesn't show any signs of having been abused, though that might or might not mean anything.

I'm saying the fear would be there. Lelouch was afraid of being sold off by the Ashfords but that never happened either.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I mean it was implied that something happened to her that was pretty awful as she shows much more fear towards the Japanese than the other Ashford students.

I think that's because Nina was always a lot more skittish than most people, and ending up alone in a Japanese Ghetto was enough to make her terrified.

It's often said she was probably raped, but nothing hints at that - if she had been a completely different person before, that might make sense as an explanation, but otherwise, it sounds pretty far-fetched to me. Like being a lesbian means she has to be afraid of men, but maybe that's just me reading too much into people's reasons.

I'm saying the fear was there. Lelouch was afraid of being sold off by the Ashfords but that never happened either.

But in Kallen's case, we don't even know the fear was there. Yeah, she was bullied, but there's a difference between that and people wanting to rape her. "Bullied" sounds like other children/young teenagers to me, and not everyone who is bullied is afraid of being raped.
The other resistance fighters seemed to accept her just fine, and while some danger might very well have been there, I'm not sure the staff gave that much thought. Lelouch, on the other hand, expressed his fears.

[bladeofdarkness]

did you notice that kallen doesn't seem to have any japanese friends her age at all ?
she hangs around with her brothers friends, but theres no sign of any friends of her own
which would make sense if she was treated poorly by the society around her
it would also make sense why she would be so close to her (much older brother)

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

did you notice that kallen doesn't seem to have any japanese friends her age at all ?
she hangs around with her brothers friends, but theres no sign of any friends of her own
which would make sense if she was treated poorly by the society around her
it would also make sense why she would be so close to her (much older brother)

Well, Kallen did live as a Britannian, so making new friends in the Ghettos might have been a bit hard.

That she apparently doesn't have any friends from before might mean that she never had any, but could also be because she cut ties with them as to keep them out of the danger zone. She was also pretty busy.

Even if she didn't have any friends her age back then, that might have been because she could not relate well to her peers, for whatever reasons - or she might simply have preferred to hang around her brother.

We can only speculate.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I think that's because Nina was always a lot more skittish than most people, and ending up alone in a Japanese Ghetto was enough to make her terrified.

It's often said she was probably raped, but nothing hints at that - if she had been a completely different person before, that might make sense as an explanation, but otherwise, it sounds pretty far-fetched to me. Like being a lesbian means she has to be afraid of men, but maybe that's just me reading too much into people's reasons.

We are similarly in the dark about Nina's past. She may have been a different person before, and became the skittish girl we saw because of something like this.

I'd say that it would be a reasonable assumption that she suffered an assault or rape. Not a certainty by any means, but a possibility.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

But in Kallen's case, we don't even know the fear was there. Yeah, she was bullied, but there's a difference between that and people wanting to rape her. "Bullied" sounds like other children/young teenagers to me, and not everyone who is bullied is afraid of being raped.
The other resistance fighters seemed to accept her just fine, and while some danger might very well have been there, I'm not sure the staff gave that much thought. Lelouch, on the other hand, expressed his fears.

If Japanese adults would toss two children, one of whom is an invalid, in a storehouse and stand by and let a 10 year old get kicked in the head by three other kids because he was Britannian, then I'd say it is reasonable to assume that they would be hostile to someone like Kallen. As you say, nothing is known, but there is little case for optimism.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Well, Kallen did live as a Britannian, so making new friends in the Ghettos might have been a bit hard.

all the pictures that we see of her are either her and her mother and naoto, or her and naoto and ougi
we never see any hint that she has other friends from before she became part of the stadfelds