(L) Fullmetal Alchemist Manga Discussion

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by nameless child

And where did you get all those things?

Made it up. I'm speculating. It's the "akira ending." Deus Ex Machina ending. Al's return has been teased. The image of Al staring at a stone slab with markings on it has been emphasized. His body seems to formed its own memories inside the "gate." Al is bound to return to his original body soon. His body gives an ominous warning just before Al's soul returns to his body from the first time they met. remember? He says that reuniting his soul and body will be dangerous. It brings the image of Akira returning from the "dead" to claim Tetsuo. Al is just a soul bound to a suit armor, looking for a way to make himself whole again. It would just be cool to see his armor body destroyed for him to return as this scrawny body and totally beat the hell out of father using only his mind and alchemy.

During the last issue, father is not out. Father is dying, his stone draining as he tries to contain "god" but he is going down swinging. He manually tries to recharge himself by eating souls.


The story doesn't seem to have climaxed yet.

[Slave0fLife]

I don't think Al should return to his body and be god-like. Although both have shown to be very intelligent and skillfull, neither he or Ed have done anything - at least from my point of view - that could be considered over the top unbelievable. This is actually what I like about this story, that every character has flaws, and no one is "Goku-SSJ-Angry-freight-train". I like that when I see everything that Ed's done, I could actually see someone thinking like him, and having that personality, and having his reactions and thoughts - I believe he can be related to. And the whole story is extremely well made, very coherent and the "laws of how things work" have been respected and followed ever since the beggining - unlike some other series that keep bringing up things that are "stronger than the previously strongest weapon ever". Everyone is as dangerous as they are supposed to be, every change of thought process is believable and convincing (see Al using Philosophers Stone after Lion King talked to him), everyone has a chance to make a difference (again, Lion King vs Kimblee), and I like that a lot.
I don't know what the ending will be like, but I have enjoyed the ride untill now and I trust this well woven story will have a great ending - and hopefully will end the story, so no one will ruin it afterwards.
I did not like the first series after about the 15th episode, I think. The story started to seem awkward - and I didn't know there was a manga for it to be based on - but I watched untill the end (mostly because of the chimera episode - first time I was going WTF?! because of an anime, and I have seen Gantz, Elfen lied end what-not). Then, I found out about Brotherhood, and watched it just to see the chimera episode, but then I came here and learned about the manga, read it, and now FMA is one of the best series for me - gripping till the end =)

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by Orangejellosphere

That's a very insightful comment! I never thought about any of those deaths that way besides Envy. Where's the irony in Pride? He's technically not finished yet, but I can imagine him "self-pwning" maybe if were forced to choose between his pride in his real father and apologizing to his fake mother.

Think about it. Why did Pride lose? Because Kimblee interfered. Why did Kimblee interfere? Because right after Pride finished talking about the superiority of the homunculus, he tried taking over an 'inferior' human to survive. In other words, exactly as Kimblee said, "In the same breath that you spoke of "Pride as a homunculus", you ran screaming to steal the body of one of the lower life-forms you so despise, just to escape your own predicament." He dies (or lost) because he chose survival over pride, or in other words, because he threw his pride away.

Originally Posted by Slave0fLife

Anyone think that the opening 3 might have foreshadowed the Kimbley scene? Look at the scene that starts at about 0:46 of the opening.

Excellent observation.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Think about it. Why did Pride lose? Because Kimblee interfered. Why did Kimblee interfere? Because right after Pride finished talking about the superiority of the homunculus, he tried taking over an 'inferior' human to survive. In other words, exactly as Kimblee said, "In the same breath that you spoke of "Pride as a homunculus", you ran screaming to steal the body of one of the lower life-forms you so despise, just to escape your own predicament." He dies (or lost) because he chose survival over pride, or in other words, because he threw his pride away.

That's a great way of putting it, and makes me like his demise even more.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Think about it. Why did Pride lose? Because Kimblee interfered. Why did Kimblee interfere? Because right after Pride finished talking about the superiority of the homunculus, he tried taking over an 'inferior' human to survive. In other words, exactly as Kimblee said, "In the same breath that you spoke of "Pride as a homunculus", you ran screaming to steal the body of one of the lower life-forms you so despise, just to escape your own predicament." He dies (or lost) because he chose survival over pride, or in other words, because he threw his pride away.

Excellent observation.

But that doesn't make any sense. Humans are their "food" anyway. The whole point to everything was claiming human souls for father to upgrade himself.

He absorbed Gluttony and it fed on humans and all sort of "matter."

Pride recognizes that father and all his homunculi are descendants from Hohenheim's flesh and Ed is their relative.

He didn't lose for trying to take over an "inferior human," he lost because he hesitated and panicked. He showed self doubt and fear. Kimblee distracted him and messed with his head, buying Ed time.

Originally Posted by Slave0fLife

I don't think Al should return to his body and be god-like. Although both have shown to be very intelligent and skillfull, neither he or Ed have done anything - at least from my point of view - that could be considered over the top unbelievable. This is actually what I like about this story, that every character has flaws, and no one is "Goku-SSJ-Angry-freight-train". I like that when I see everything that Ed's done, I could actually see someone thinking like him, and having that personality, and having his reactions and thoughts - I believe he can be related to. And the whole story is extremely well made, very coherent and the "laws of how things work" have been respected and followed ever since the beggining - unlike some other series that keep bringing up things that are "stronger than the previously strongest weapon ever". Everyone is as dangerous as they are supposed to be, every change of thought process is believable and convincing (see Al using Philosophers Stone after Lion King talked to him), everyone has a chance to make a difference (again, Lion King vs Kimblee), and I like that a lot.
I don't know what the ending will be like, but I have enjoyed the ride untill now and I trust this well woven story will have a great ending - and hopefully will end the story, so no one will ruin it afterwards.
I did not like the first series after about the 15th episode, I think. The story started to seem awkward - and I didn't know there was a manga for it to be based on - but I watched untill the end (mostly because of the chimera episode - first time I was going WTF?! because of an anime, and I have seen Gantz, Elfen lied end what-not). Then, I found out about Brotherhood, and watched it just to see the chimera episode, but then I came here and learned about the manga, read it, and now FMA is one of the best series for me - gripping till the end =)

Not all alchemists have been on the same level throughout the entire series. Alchemists who have seen the gate, given up a sacrifice, and lived unlock much more powerful alchemy than those who have not. They do not require special markings on themselves to perform their alchemy and their manifestations are on a totally different level.

Hohenheim and Father became living alchemist stones from killing an entire country, being broken down to bits, and then reassembled though the gate.. They are the most powerful beings in the world.

Just briefly gazing at the gate unlocks super alchemy, now imagine what years at studying it would do? Al's body is in some void staring at the secrets of the "universe."

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by mechalord

But that doesn't make any sense. Humans are their "food" anyway. The whole point to everything was claiming human souls for father to upgrade himself.

He absorbed Gluttony and it fed on humans and all sort of "matter."

Pride recognizes that father and all his homunculi are descendants from Hohenheim's flesh and Ed is their relative.

He didn't lose for trying to take over an "inferior human," he lost because he hesitated and panicked. He showed self doubt and fear. Kimblee distracted him and messed with his head, buying Ed time.

No, look at it this way. He wasn't trying to absorb Ed and add him into his Philosopher's stone. He was literally trying to take him over like a vessel, creating something similar to Wrath or Greed. Also, there's been several mentions of their 'pride of a homunculus'. They see themselves as an existence greater than humans. The reason that it was his downfall was because that was the sole reason Kimblee decided to interfere. Kimblee distracted him and messed with his mind, but the only reason he did so was because Pride, in Kimblee's opinion, chose survival over pride which would be a hypocrisy considering that he's well, 'pride.'

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Not really.
'Truth' is what lies behind the gate, but Al's body is sitting in front of it.

That and what he's been staring at is just a leftover prop from the Evangelion OP anyway... ^_^

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Not really.
'Truth' is what lies behind the gate, but Al's body is sitting in front of it.

And even if there were secrets on the gate itself, it's Al's body sitting in front of it, not Al himself. I doubt Al would remember anything from the gate when he reclaims his body, and the body cannot memorize anything if there's no mind associated with it.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

And even if there were secrets on the gate itself, it's Al's body sitting in front of it, not Al himself. I doubt Al would remember anything from the gate when he reclaims his body, and the body cannot memorize anything if there's no mind associated with it.

But his mind is connecting his body to his soul, remember? So his body is in one place, his soul in another, so his mind has to be linking the two together. It's quite possible that, once his soul enters his body again, anything the body learned will be merged with what his soul learned, and combine into what he knew prior to the "incident."

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by GDB

But his mind is connecting his body to his soul, remember? So his body is in one place, his soul in another, so his mind has to be linking the two together. It's quite possible that, once his soul enters his body again, anything the body learned will be merged with what his soul learned, and combine into what he knew prior to the "incident."

I wouldn't say they're linked. They're certainly drawn to each other, but I wouldn't say there's a sound connection between the two. Had they been linked, Al would've been aware that his body was stuck in front of the gate all along. However, that isn't the case because he's only aware of what is happening in the material world around him. The same would go for Ed and his limbs.

Of course, what you're saying is possible, but I would say it could happen for a different reason. After all, the body does appear to be conscious but that's perhaps because of the gate-keeper's influence. Once Al enters the body, the memories stored in the brain thanks to the gate keeper might be inherited by Al, but I find it unlikely because the gatekeeper is essentially part of the truth. It was he that Al found on the other side as well. Al already has that true knowledge anyways so getting his body back wouldn't exactly make much of a difference except in his fighting performance.

[Orangejellosphere]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

I wouldn't say they're linked. They're certainly drawn to each other, but I wouldn't say there's a sound connection between the two. Had they been linked, Al would've been aware that his body was stuck in front of the gate all along. However, that isn't the case because he's only aware of what is happening in the material world around him. The same would go for Ed and his limbs.

"The body and the soul are connected through the mind. I left a part of my body in front of the gate. So long as I don't struggle, I can follow the mind, flow with the energy, to the gate!"
-Ed, chapter 53, pages 30 and 31

I suppose Al's body and soul are still connected, but Al can't just go to the gate because he can't transmute his own body in order to open the gate. It also wouldn't be wise for him to use his soul because he wouldn't have the energy (Envy's Philosopher's Stone) that Ed used to access the gate. Ed used the gate to escape from the inside of Gluttony, but Alphonse would only be reclaiming his body. I don't think I understand why Alphonse's soul rejecting the armor would cause him to move back to the gate. Can he just take it back whenever he wants? He didn't want to take the chance when he still needed to fight, so will he be able to reclaim his body when he thinks the time is right?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Orangejellosphere

"The body and the soul are connected through the mind. I left a part of my body in front of the gate. So long as I don't struggle, I can follow the mind, flow with the energy, to the gate!"
-Ed, chapter 53, pages 30 and 31

It's also in chapter 44, pages 20 and 21:
"Al's body is somewhere, still living, and the brain is still working."
"In alchemy, there are three things in humans: body, soul, and mind. I think that the mind is the thing that connects the body and the soul."
"The body and the soul are attracted to each other because they're connected by the mind."

[GaimeGuy]

You know , this will probably be addressed in the last few chapters, but I'm 95% certain that when someone performs human transmutation, they literally create their own personal gate. As we saw with Father's plan, he only needed the 5 sacrifices for their gates. But if every person has a gate, then any 5 persons should have done. This leads me to the conclusion that human transmutation creates the gate for an individual (or, perhaps, "binds" an already existing gate to that particular individual). The gate itself serves at the alchemic formula used to perform alchemy by individuals without a circle.

There is nothing to suggest that Al gained more knowledge than anyone else. The hypothesis that Ed and Izumi came up with back in chapter 25ish, about Al paying a bigger toll being a sign that Al gained more knowledge, is just a guess that they made that is most likely incorrect. Truth is probably just a "false god" with a twisted sense of irony. After all, Hohenheim seems to mock the way that Father calls it a "God," and it certainly isn't all powerful if Father can contain it with the power of only 50.5 million souls, and struggle to hold onto it with the power of half a million souls.

Basically, Truth isn't fair or just (which we should know by the fact that mustang was punished arguably the most harshly of all 5 sacrifices), the nature of the gate itself is somewhat suspect, and Al isn't a god already, so I don't see why people hold onto this notion that once Al reunites with his body, he'll be some kind of deus ex machina.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Orangejellosphere

I don't think I understand why Alphonse's soul rejecting the armor would cause him to move back to the gate. Can he just take it back whenever he wants? He didn't want to take the chance when he still needed to fight, so will he be able to reclaim his body when he thinks the time is right?

The body and the soul are inextricably linked. Wherever the body is, its soul will go, as long as it's not tethered somewhere else (like to a suit of armor). When this happened to Barry the Chopper, his body was already so close to death that the shock killed him (or maybe damaging the array did—we should find out next chapter). When it happened to the citizens of Amestris, their bodies were still in the same condition as they were before (a few drivers and pedestrians probably got screwed) so they were (mostly, at least) fine. Al's body is in the White Room, so that's where the soul goes when the tether starts to fade. If he wasn't an alchemist, it probably would have killed him the first time, since presumably there wouldn't have been a Gate for his body to stay at. It may kill him the next time, as the soul seems to be attuning itself back to the body (shown by his ability to keep memories of meeting said body from the last time).

Originally Posted by GaimeGuy

You know , this will probably be addressed in the last few chapters, but I'm 95% certain that when someone performs human transmutation, they literally create their own personal gate. As we saw with Father's plan, he only needed the 5 sacrifices for their gates. But if every person has a gate, then any 5 persons should have done. This leads me to the conclusion that human transmutation creates the gate for an individual (or, perhaps, "binds" an already existing gate to that particular individual). The gate itself serves at the alchemic formula used to perform alchemy by individuals without a circle.

There is nothing to suggest that Al gained more knowledge than anyone else. The hypothesis that Ed and Izumi came up with back in chapter 25ish, about Al paying a bigger toll being a sign that Al gained more knowledge, is just a guess that they made that is most likely incorrect. Truth is probably just a "false god" with a twisted sense of irony. After all, Hohenheim seems to mock the way that Father calls it a "God," and it certainly isn't all powerful if Father can contain it with the power of only 50.5 million souls, and struggle to hold onto it with the power of half a million souls.

Basically, Truth isn't fair or just (which we should know by the fact that mustang was punished arguably the most harshly of all 5 sacrifices), the nature of the gate itself is somewhat suspect, and Al isn't a god already, so I don't see why people hold onto this notion that once Al reunites with his body, he'll be some kind of deus ex machina.

I'm still trying to figure out where people got the idea that sitting in the "waiting room" staring at the exit door for 4-5 years was going to teach Al anything. The only time we've seen any "Truth" learning being done, it's during the trip, not at either end. And multiple trips (see Ed) don't appear to teach you anything extra. If composite!Al gets the memories of hungry!Al, and that's a big "if", it's going to be something along the lines of "Damn I was hungry," or "Hey Ed, remember when I was naked in the White Room?" or "I have an idea for an anime OP set to Cruel Angel's Thesis." Fullmetal!Al is the one all the memory-making things have been happening to.

[duckroll]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Come to think of it: Isn't it strange, that Al's body is sitting before the gate?
Everytime someone had to pay the price for opening it, the body parts got sucked into it by Mr. Truth, and didn't seem to come back. Al's body however isn't inside, it's sitting in front, which only leaves the conclusion, that it wasn't used as fee for passing the gate.
This ultimately leads to the question, what kind of price Al even paid in the first place.

No, I don't think that's the case at all. In chapter 53, when Ed uses Envy to go through the gate again, he first sees Truth, who clearly has his arm and leg. He then notices that there are two gates, and Al's body is sitting in front of another one. Whatever is sacrificed is not taken into any gate, it is simply left in the zone where the gate(s) exist. Then again, it has been hinted at that there is in fact nothing actually being "sacrificed" at all, and that humans simply don't fully understand the true nature of the gates and what Truth is. So I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[GaimeGuy]

Originally Posted by duckroll

No, I don't think that's the case at all. In chapter 53, when Ed uses Envy to go through the gate again, he first sees Truth, who clearly has his arm and leg. He then notices that there are two gates, and Al's body is sitting in front of another one. Whatever is sacrificed is not taken into any gate, it is simply left in the zone where the gate(s) exist. Then again, it has been hinted at that there is in fact nothing actually being "sacrificed" at all, and that humans simply don't fully understand the true nature of the gates and what Truth is. So I guess we'll find out soon enough.

yeah, when ed encountered al's body, he asked "why are there two gates?" While it's obvious that every person has their own gate, the question is: Why? What exactly IS the gate? Why does every individual have one? And why was Ed able to find Al's body and Al's gate in addition to his own? Every other time we see someone reach the gate, it seems to be an isolated chamber containing only that person, that person's gate, and Truth.

The only two people who seem to understand the true nature of the Truth and the gate are Hohenheim and Father, and it's debatable whether Father actually does. (He seems to operate under the assumption that Truth is God, which Hohenheim openly mocks, and also attempted and failed to recreate the gate himself. Perhaps Father has misunderstood things himself).

[Grey]

Truth...in chapter 23, it said that humans called it "all", "one", "the universe", "god" and "true knowledge". And Truth also said "I'm you" to Ed.

Of course, humans might be wrong. But the Truth didn't say they were, and instead said "I'm you". Maybe the Truth really is where all things come from, and where all things return...sort of like a spirit that represents/embodies the universe.

Curious to see if the Truth will be developed further though--same for the Father. I'm curious as to how exactly the Father was first created. What alchemy was used to make him? Is he similar to the Truth? They both seem to have access to an awful lot of knowledge.

Originally Posted by GaimeGuy

And why was Ed able to find Al's body and Al's gate in addition to his own? Every other time we see someone reach the gate, it seems to be an isolated chamber containing only that person, that person's gate, and Truth.

Ah, I remember the answer to that one--or, at least, Ed's hypothesis. Al and Ed's souls became, in some sense, linked when they did human transmutation.

That's also the explanation they give for why Al's body is still alive even though it hasn't been eating or drinking. Ed sleeps more and eats more, because he's sleeping and eating Al's share. This is also, apparently, the reason Ed is so short. Al's body is pulling resources from Ed.

[ellifeedn]

I started reading this series on Friday and finally finished today. It's an awesome series. I feel kind of sad that it seems to be close to the end. Once this battle is over I don't see how it could continue; it will depend on who wins and at what cost.

[GaimeGuy]

How about a xing-centered spinoff? :P

[Sylphonic]

as hohenheim has explained when he declares the party's counter attack, if the body remains intact, it will just simply call its soul back. then, the soul will return to the body like a magnetic attraction. imo the gate itself is preventing Al's soul from returning to his body because you need a lot of energy to open the gate. yet, how can his soul selectively return to his armor after complaining that his real body is too skinny to fight? the soul even had a lil chat with the body. wilpower? resolve?

oh well, if father wins, he will go after the universe's gate within a black hole. (just a wild imagination XD)