Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[0utf0xZer0]

Loved it... this episode falls into the category of "so good it makes time fly"... I mentally cursed when the credits rolled, thought there was like five minutes left. Next episode can't come soon enough.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I personally think the wide distribution of ratings on this episode is a byproduct of the "identity crisis" I described this show having last week.

It seems the manner in which the show takes its twists and turns, from comedic, to serious, to zany, to sober is throwing people for a loop.

The way I see it, Hana-Saku Iroha's schtick is "bullheaded girl, chaotic world". Hence, little that has happened thus far has felt "out of nowhere" to me. While the show tries to be dramatic and poignant at times, the theme kind of demands a certain level of borderline absurdity.

For me, the surprising thing about this show is its ability to cause split opinions.

Originally Posted by The Sandman

On the "Ren collapses under pressure" thing: why do you think he's working at Kissuiso instead of somewhere with more prestige and customers? It's not lack of skill, given that he's trained Tohru to a high enough standard to meet the approval of the other inn (whose name escapes me for the moment).

Sounds like a good explanation. He works at a small inn because he can't take stress.

Originally Posted by The Sandman

And why exactly is anybody listening to anything Takako says? Everything that comes out of her mouth is either pointless English or absolute idiocy, and I get the sense that she's been doing this since well before we first saw her. I swear to god, Tomoe should hook up with Enishi solely to remove Takako from the inn forever.

From what I saw it was mainly Enishi and Jiromaru supporting her, with everyone else being dragged along for the ride. I think they're both buying into it because they wish being successful was that easy.

Enishi/Tomoe could be amusing... it would make Tomoe Ohana's aunt, which could result in some amusing honourifics.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I don't think it's just Japan, even here in the UK that would be pretty good.
Well yes, but that wouldn't stop him from being recommend or finding a job at a good place (their rivals even employed him as a part timer, so he could always go to Fukuya at worst)

I don't think he went there as a head chef...

[Arabesque]

No, but he at least met their criteria to work there, and Fukuya is certainly on a higher rank than Kissuiso, so he wouldn't have trouble getting a job there (if the manager puts in the good word) or anywhere of the same level.

And I didn't say he went there a head chef

[0utf0xZer0]

Well, logically Ohana should have ordered Takako to go pick up Tohru, since she has a vehicle. But Ohana is bullheaded, not smart... and I can certainly think of some braindead things I've done over the years.

[Arabesque]

Yes, bullheaded would be an accurate way to describe Ohana. Thanks for that.

To be fair, while this isn't all that different from Ohana running from inn to inn in order to stop Tooru from leaving, except that in that case she was going to make an appeal to the management there (still she ended up running out of breath and it was a rash decision) the reason this one rubs me the wrong way is how many things are illogical about it ... and understanding WHY it happened in this manner (writers want Ohana + Tooru -> have Ko-chan see them = Misunderstanding somehow) that make me have such an impression.

So, while it's not entirely OOC (she has done it before, she has the personality) really, there is much wrong about it that I can't just put it under the rug and try not to notice it.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

The way I see it, Hana-Saku Iroha's schtick is "bullheaded girl, chaotic world". Hence, little that has happened thus far has felt "out of nowhere" to me. While the show tries to be dramatic and poignant at times, the theme kind of demands a certain level of borderline absurdity.

For me, the surprising thing about this show is its ability to cause split opinions.

It depends what you mean by chaotic world, and the degree of chaos. Episode 3 and 7 was completely off the rails in comparison to the rest of the episodes.

Borderline absurdity at times? That was already met by things like the treatment of Ohana's mother for example. No problem there. But they definitely pushed it much too far in other episodes.

Did we sign up for a more earnest story, or a more inebriated one? Jumping between the two is very jarring.

[jeroz]

first part is great,
2nd part is so blatantly forced it's not even funny.

too much bad memories from your typical live action drama series makes me not wanting to like this episode. Weaker than the character development episode last time for sure.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

And yet she made such a stupid mistake with running off so impulsively

While I respect you viewpoints, I have to disagree with you here. I don't necessarily think it was a mistake, let alone a stupid one.

Remember, time is of the essence here. In such a situation, quick actions are often necessary in order to resolve problems in a beneficial way. I like how Hana-Saku Iroha portrays that realistically and sincerely in this episode. When you're struck with a desperate situation, sometimes you have to respond to it with an equally desperate reaction in order to get things to work out. It might work out messily and chaotically, but at least it will (hopefully) work out.

Tohru is a dependable cook, and as others have rightly argued on this thread, Kissuiso needs that much more desperately than it needs an inexperienced waitress. What he can bring in a customer service role takes considerable priority over what Ohana can, imo.

I do agree that it's nice to see Minchi and Ohana's relationship as it is now and how much progress has been made between the two. Neeedless to say, Ohana is certainly making her open up gradually, though the question is if Minchi feels a little annoyed (jealous even?) that Ohana had done what she couldn't do this episode with standing up against the majorty?

Possibly. But in Minchi's case I think her concern for Tohru is very much at play here. I don't think she wants to be bothering him given the circumstances that he's in right now. So that has a bit of a halting effect on her, I think.

As much as I loved Ohana's role in this episode, I worry about this trend of her simply giving out answers without much thinking and then end up turning out to be the right ones will continue for long.

Well, in fairness, she's not always right. Remember the episode all about making sure that Tohru didn't get a new job over at Fukuya? Ohana kind of embarrassed herself pretty badly there, imo.

So her bull headed nature is appropriately hit-and-miss, I think. Sometimes it works wonders, while other times it backfires.

Ohana is actually a bit like a shounen hero this way. It does make her a more intriguing character for me. You don't usually see shounen hero-esque traits like that in a moe female lead.

We'll see. I personally think we will still maintain the amounts of comedy and drama as we had the previous episodes.

Do you really need to try to douse my enthusiasm like that?

I really hope that you're wrong here, frankly. I much preferred this episode to most of the previous ones.

How hard was it to call the place?

Did they even have the phone number for the place? And even if they did call the place, how long would it take the person who answers the phone to reach Tohru himself?

Or get someone to drive there?

Who was expendable at the time? And also willing to drive?

Or even change her clothe?

Again, time is of the essence here. Does it really matter that much if she changes her clothes or not?

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Well, logically Ohana should have ordered Takako to go pick up Tohru, since she has a vehicle.

... Why would Takako do that? Takako was just "told off" by Ohana, basically, and we know from having seen Takako run off in a huff and a puff before that she's a very proud person that doesn't take well at all to this sort of thing.

If Ohana asked Takako to go after Tohru right after disagreeing totally with Takako and getting the Inn staff to go against her, I think there's a good chance Takako would have refused. Or made her helping Ohana conditional in a way that Ohana couldn't agree with it.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

While I respect you viewpoints, I have to disagree with you here. I don't necessarily think it was a mistake, let alone a stupid one.

Remember, time is of the essence here. In such a situation, quick actions are often necessary in order to resolve problems in a beneficial way. I like how Hana-Saku Iroha portrays that realistically and sincerely in this episode. When you're struck with a desperate situation, sometimes you have to respond to it with an equally desperate reaction in order to get things to work out. It might work out messily and chaotically, but at least it will (hopefully) work out.

Right, and I'd agree with you ... except there was no need for a desperate reaction.

There were ways, equally efficient, to solve the problem of getting Tooru there and helping Ren without having Ohana going off like that. The problem is that she didn't think about it at all, and no one tried to help her in anyway other than giving her a bike.

The thing is, while this is certainly a desperate situation, it didn't require an equally desperate reaction to be solved. It needed a calm, collected reaction, much like the one she gave a minute previously I might add.

There were a lot of things in this episode that were presented in a realistic and sincere light. Ohana rushing out was not one of them in my very humble opinion.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Tohru is a dependable cook, and as others have rightly argued on this thread, Kissuiso needs that much more desperately than it needs an inexperienced waitress. What he can bring in a customer service role takes considerable priority over what Ohana can, imo.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Possibly. But in Minchi's case I think her concern for Tohru is very much at play here. I don't think she wants to be bothering him given the circumstances that he's in right now. So that has a bit of a halting effect on her, I think.

He does have that effect on her, but then again, if the misunderstanding about Ohana/Tooru spreads to her as well, then she might start to grow these feelings of resentment (added with her own insecurities)

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, in fairness, she's not always right. Remember the episode all about making sure that Tohru didn't get a new job over at Fukuya? Ohana kind of embarrassed herself pretty badly there, imo.

Actually that was Jiromaru who ended up spreading that tale

And I disagree, Ohana made the right decision in going there imo, as unlike this case the ones who could go and stop Tooru (Minchi and Ren) where pretty reluctant about not going (or aware of the truth ) so she took on herself to confront the issue. In here she reacted pretty impulsively without much thinking.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So her bull headed nature is appropriately hit-and-miss, I think. Sometimes it works wonders, while other times it backfires.

Fair enough. We saw first hand in this episode this happen so fair enough.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Ohana is actually a bit like a shounen hero this way. It does make her a more intriguing character for me. You don't usually see shounen hero-esque traits like that in a moe female lead.

See this is why I like you.

Ohana showing more and more Shonen-esq qualities means we are in for a good time

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Do you really need to try to douse my enthusiasm like that?

I really hope that you're wrong here, frankly. I much preferred this episode to most of the previous ones.

Sorry

Well, I'm certain we will have more episodes like this one (just better) upcoming. I'm sure that once the show passes the mid way point, we will be getting the meaty portion of the show.

Hopefully

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Did they even have the phone number for the place? And even if they did call the place, how long would it take the person who answers the phone to reach Tohru himself?

They might have, she didn't press the issue and everyone was apparently dumbfounded (yet she had time to call Nako previously) And the thing is, even if it took a while to get him, they still needed to try to, as Ohana going to get him means they are another person short. Furthermore, would it have been as long as the trip back and to town as well as the time it takes to search for him?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Who was expendable at the time? And also willing to drive?

Jiromaru. The writer is always an expendable. Hell, I'm sure he has it tattooed somewhere on his body.

That or Takako

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Again, time is of the essence here. Does it really matter that much if she changes her clothes or not?

Yes.

What she's wearing isn't suitable for the city, nor for biking to the train station. This is her work uniform, and its for work.

I suppose this is the least of my problems with her rushing out, but it's really irresponsible to go outside in her work kimono, where it might get damaged, when she should be thinking about how she will then serve the customers.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree with you. I really don't think the decision is anywhere near as bad as you're making it out to be.

I honestly am bothered by this is that its not only an illogical course of action to take (when there are other, better options) but also how it's inconsistent with what she had said about serving the customers first and foremost and how she didn't think about how they will end up being a hand short.

What if she arrived there and the wedding was already over? What if she got the place wrong? What if her uniform was damaged, how will she serve the customers? etc.

So many things wrong about it.

Maybe your right, I might be making too big a deal about this, but something about it certainly made me feel that there was a mistake made, and when I got thinking about it, it didn't add up.

It made me view the episode in a different light, where I might have enjoyed it more had there not been such a clumsy attempt to put Ohana in town just when Ko is coming to see her.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Still very surprised at the episode rating disparity, particularly at how episode 7 is rated on average higher than this one. And there's people complaining about the lack of reasonable belief of this episode when the previous one had LARPERS where their goal was to peep/stalk on the female staff and Tomoe ejected them out with a superpowered hose.

So over-exaggerated "anime-comedy" is ok but a somewhat "cliche dramatic plot" that does have some questionable actions is not?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Right, and I'd agree with you ... except there was no need for a desperate reaction.

There were ways, equally efficient, to solve the problem of getting Tooru there and helping Ren without having Ohana going off like that. The problem is that she didn't think about it at all, and no one tried to help her in anyway other than giving her a bike.

It's fair to say that Ohana is impulsive.

She's very good at recognizing when problems are arising, and of developing a good general idea of how to rectify those problems, but her follow-through execution of all of that is a bit chaotic because she can let her emotions and sense of urgency get the best of her.

Sometimes this works out for the best anyway. Other times it doesn't.

In this instance, I'm prepared to say that Ohana didn't consider all the ways of getting in contact with Tohru, and hence just jumped into action, using the first idea that came to her.

I think that part of the issue is that while Ohana wants other people to like her, she doesn't really trust other people, and this can cause her to become overly self-reliant. And that's probably why her chosen method of reaching Tohru puts all the onus on her, and nobody else. This is another way in which she's like a certain denizen of Gotham City.


Does this all make it a bad or mistaken decision?

Well, I tend to judge decisions by their results, by if they work out or not. My sense is that things will work out here (i.e. Tohru will arrive back at the Inn to "save the day"), but I could be wrong of course.

You're judging Ohana's decisions by how logical and efficient they are, regardless of results. I think that's important, but for me, the ultimate results of a decision are what counts the most.

That's why we differ both on Ohana's "rushing off" decision in this episode, and on her decision a few episodes back to stampede into Fukuya in order to get Tohru back. If Ohana had not made that decision, she would have spared herself quite a bit of embarrassment, in my opinion. Not to mention sparing herself fanning the flames of added conflict between her and Minchi over Tohru.


But, in both cases, her decisions reflect a bull headed and impulsive nature for Ohana. If nothing else, I think we can appreciate how the anime has handled her character very well, and has made her character consistent.

See this is why I like you.

Ohana showing more and more Shonen-esq qualities means we are in for a good time.

I agree.

Sorry

It's Ok. I was mostly joking there, lol

Well, I'm certain we will have more episodes like this one (just better) upcoming. I'm sure that once the show passes the mid way point, we will be getting the meaty portion of the show.

Hopefully

Agreed.


Anyway, I can certainly respect your desire for plot believability, and a desire to avoid plot contrivances.

I value that too, but I guess that at the end of the day, I'll usually let things slide a bit more if it means good drama.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

You know, I enjoyed this episode but am a little disappointed with Ko going to visit Ohana out of no where. When did he and how did he find out where she went? I don't remember there being any mention of that, which led my prediction and hope that he goes to Ohana's inn and meets her by chance. Plus he's putting the ball in her court yet again by going to visit her.

I'm sure Ohana must've told him where she was going. And it's not entirely out of nowhere. If you notice when Ohana finally sent him that first text and Ko was slepping, he was looking at a magazine that had a picture of the countryside.

[deadite]

I'll laugh if Ko decides to help in the inn for Ohana during this busy time. And then in the end it turns out he was the mystery guest and the staff is shocked that they made him work.

Also do you think in her younger days, Sui was working for her husband until they fell in love? Does this imply anything for the future of Enishi and Tomoe?

The demographic of this show is Shonen, so maybe that is why w have a shonen-esq character?

[Tu101uk]

Originally Posted by acejem

Still very surprised at the episode rating disparity, particularly at how episode 7 is rated on average higher than this one. And there's people complaining about the lack of reasonable belief of this episode when the previous one had LARPERS where their goal was to peep/stalk on the female staff and Tomoe ejected them out with a superpowered hose.

So over-exaggerated "anime-comedy" is ok but a somewhat "cliche dramatic plot" that does have some questionable actions is not? :heh:

I personally found the episode to be good (aside from that management wench, she and her Engrish motivational talks grate me, anyone watch The Office? XD), but for different reasons from the last one (which I enjoyed a lot more).

Whereas Episode 7 was a clear and zany break from the slightly heavier character development episodes that preceded it, Episode 8 pushes the story forward reminiscent of Episodes 1 and 2. We realise the owner has health problems of her own but refuses to let it affect her ryokan, we see everyone's game faces when the going gets tough (and when tough seemingly get going >.>;;;), we see Ohana "manning up" (for lack of a better term) and taking charge of the situation, and we see potential misunderstanding after misunderstanding with Kou coming down at the same time as Ohana goes after Tohru (as well as Ohana potentially interrupting something pretty heavy).

I will admit, it was quite a coincidence for the ryokan to "just suddenly" get a bucketload of customers all at once (though methinks we'll get a reason for this when this arc resolves itself), and the "misunderstanding situations" look like they'll be played completely straight for the drama. However, it's all to develop the characters involved further, so I'm intrigued as to see what direction they're gonna take all of the little offshoots sprouted by this particular episode.

O-O~

[Malkuth]

Not particularly bad, rather somewhat boring episode. The more episodes into the show, the more it reminds of those old hollywood films, a little comedy, a little drama, a little love story, a little action, a little craziness... but in the end nothing memorable.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Ohana is actually a bit like a shounen hero this way. It does make her a more intriguing character for me. You don't usually see shounen hero-esque traits like that in a moe female lead.

I couldn't have thought of a better way to put it. That's exactly it. She's shounen hero dropped into a slice of life show. I have to say, the combination of shounen hero traits and moe works surprisingly well. I actually tend to dislike all those impulsive shounen hero who acts before they think, yet I love Ohana. I'm so biased

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Do you really need to try to douse my enthusiasm like that?

I really hope that you're wrong here, frankly. I much preferred this episode to most of the previous ones.

Did you watch the preview for episode 9? That alone leads me to think he's right. And you know what? I want him to be right. I do not want this to turn into a drama and "never look back". I'm already loving the show for what it is: a heartwarming, lighthearted, and sometimes absurd coming of life story that is always incredibly enjoyable to watch. It's amazingly fun and relaxing to watch, and it's exactly what I was looking for. That's the reason I love Hanasaku a lot more than Anohana, which has too much drama (it feels a bit forced at times, which really annoys me) for my tastes. Too bad I'm apparently the only one.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Haak

I'm sure Ohana must've told him where she was going. And it's not entirely out of nowhere. If you notice when Ohana finally sent him that first text and Ko was slepping, he was looking at a magazine that had a picture of the countryside.

The scene where he confesses with Ohana begins with him saying "are you serious?" you can presume Ohana just told him exactly where she was going.

I could see him being the mystery guest,would explain why he's in the area,though I wonder if he wouldn't be the mystery guest at the rival inn.

I also hate missunderstanding that last too long so I'm hoping that there won't be one.

[creaothceann]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Not particularly bad, rather somewhat boring episode. The more episodes into the show, the more it reminds of those old hollywood films, a little comedy, a little drama, a little love story, a little action, a little craziness... but in the end nothing memorable.

Eh? Back to the Future 3 was quite alright, imo.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

They might have, she didn't press the issue and everyone was apparently dumbfounded (yet she had time to call Nako previously) And the thing is, even if it took a while to get him, they still needed to try to, as Ohana going to get him means they are another person short. Furthermore, would it have been as long as the trip back and to town as well as the time it takes to search for him?Jiromaru. The writer is always an expendable. Hell, I'm sure he has it tattooed somewhere on his body.

That or Takako

Except Jiromaru is an idiot. You got to keep in mind this isn't just a matter of driving over, finding Tohru and asking him to come back. This is his day off and he's at a friends/familiy members wedding. Even if I was dedicated to my work, I'd be reluctant to come in if they sent Jiromaru of all people to persuade me back.

It's kind of the same for Takako. I wouldn't honestly trust her to be able to negotiate for an employee to come back to work on the spur of the moment. And unlike Jiromaru, you can't exactly rely on to even make the attempt.


So no. sending Ohana really ISN'T that outrageous of an idea. Because even though we like her and her attitude, objectively speaking she's the lowest utility worker they have that can still be reliably trusted to get a more important employee on his day off to come back. I think we have an inflated sense of how important Ohana is due to her being the main character.

Perhaps this isn't the 100% optimal way to try to salvage the situation, but I can't agree that it's necessarily a bad way. That's what decision making is. It's not to spend hours or days (like we are in this discussion) thinking of the most optimal way to solve a time critical problem. It's coming up with a decent course of action then doing it. And to be perfectly honest, it wasn't like anyone else there was coming up with a viable plan of action.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I suppose this is the least of my problems with her rushing out, but it's really irresponsible to go outside in her work kimono, where it might get damaged, when she should be thinking about how she will then serve the customers.
I honestly am bothered by this is that its not only an illogical course of action to take (when there are other, better options) but also how it's inconsistent with what she had said about serving the customers first and foremost and how she didn't think about how they will end up being a hand short.

What if she arrived there and the wedding was already over? What if she got the place wrong? What if her uniform was damaged, how will she serve the customers? etc.

So many things wrong about it.

As I've said before. It's a matter of risk/benefit. If Ohana can get Tohru and herself back in time, there will be significant benefit since the Customers will be less inconvenienced which will potentially outweigh the inconvenienced the customers experiance by Ohana not being there for awhile. So Ohana is working on a strategy that increases the chance of the best possible outcome, instead of going for a *safe* strategy that only seeks to prevent a disaster.

Going for the former is not necessarily an illogical strategy. Ohana might not necessarily be calculating all this, but the course of action she's taking is not necessarily the worst one she could take. I'll point out that military leaders often need to make these kind of decisions to. The best military leaders we remember are the ones who took risks that paid off. The mediocre or horrible generals we remember sometimes are the ones who took horrible risks that backfired disastrously, but sometimes the ones who never decided to risk anything are the worst.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I couldn't have thought of a better way to put it. That's exactly it. She's shounen hero dropped into a slice of life show. I have to say, the combination of shounen hero traits and moe works surprisingly well.

Agreed. Glad you liked the way I put that there.

Did you watch the preview for episode 9?

Honestly, I skipped it. As I wanted to comment on this episode right away once the ED started to play. I'll have to check out the preview in a bit.

And you know what? I want him to be right. I do not want this to turn into a drama and "never look back".

Still, you rated this episode a 9/10. So you clearly liked it a lot. So the drama here couldn't have bothered you that much.

Is it that you feel that the drama-focused episodes and comedy-focused episodes compliment each other?

That's the reason I love Hanasaku a lot more than Anohana, which has too much drama (it feels a bit forced at times, which really annoys me) for my tastes. Too bad I'm apparently the only one.

It's now possible that Hanasaku will leap-frog Anohana for me. I can see where you're coming from on Anohana, honestly.

If Ohana continues to "sparkle" as she did in this episode, and if Menma continues to cry constantly, then I may well end up liking Hanasaku more than I do Anohana.

I echo acejem's sentiments that this is one week where I liked the Hanasaku episode more than I did the Anohana one.