[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 464 Discussion

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-That's the same question I had when zanpakuto were able to cut other shinigami. Before Save Rukia Arc started, I was under the impression that zanpakuto can only cut hollows and cleanse the souls underneath. Then it turns out it cuts shinigami just fine and now it can seemingly cut living humans outside of SS. Then again, like you said, we don't really care anymore and are merely here for the ride.

It would be fun if they could do both at the same time. And all of a sudden at the end of the fighting, there are the spirits of those defeated fullbringers standing by the sidelines with their eyes opened and souls ready to depart to SS...or hell

[Casshern]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

This time it's "You're not worthy enough to fight any of us, so you die" which is actually not that much of difference

Well, the logical part I was talking about was when he was explaining why Ichigo and Kenpachi wouldn't be appropriate opponents. But yeah, the "I despise your style" was typical "Byakuya".

As for Ichigo's power-ups, I've come to the conclusion that Ichigo never really increased his power; at least not in the sense of a traditional power-up where you obtain a power that you didn't have before i.e Ishida's final quincy form. In hindsight, I think that Ichigo has been unlocking power that was already inside him from the start. I heard this from LoP a couple of years ago and it's the most fitting theory I've heard about Ichigo's power so far.

At first he used Rukia's powers, which were massively boosted by his own reiatsu.
Then he unlocked his own enormous shinigami powers.
The he learned how to use bankai, which allowed him to fully manifest his existing captain class reiatsu.
Then he learned to tap into his hollow powers as a vizard.
His resureccion allowed him to fully manifest his hollow powers.
Final Getsuga broke the barrier between his hollow and shinigami powers, revealing them to be two sides of the same coin, and allowing Ichigo to materialize his true full power.

So while he made enormous leaps in strength, the power inside him hasn't changed from the start.

[Marcus H.]

My interest in Bleach actually returned with this new arc, especially through a marathon of the Substitute Shinigami Arc. It felt somewhat fulfilling that Ichigo managed to make Ginjo pee in his pants with his mansion-cleaving attack. Also, Ichigo's simple knockout of the other Fullbringers is a clear sign that you don't want to mess with him.

Tsukishima is indeed a fearful foe, but I'm more interested on the effects of his Book of the End... more specifically its nature. If Fullbrings are more Hollow in nature, then Urahara might be able to find out a way to reverse the effects of the Book of the End without needing Tsukishima to poke him with his sword one more time. If it's more unusual than that, then Ichigo might do the recalling the hard way.

[haegar]

on the matter of Ishida being cut, what's prly gona happen is this:

Ginjou: "and now its 1vs1"
Ishida:"no, it's actually 2vs1"

Ginjou naturally thinks Ishida is cut by Tsukushima and with him
Ichigo thinks "great Ishida is back", however, "back the fuck off I can do this alone" - obviously he has no clue and doesn't even consider Ishida might be turned

Ginjou and Ichigo fight with Ishida standing by
at a moment of opportunity Ishida attacks Ichigo
Ichigo is all wtf?
Ginjou goes "HAHA trolled you, idiot, he's with me"
at that moment, Ishida does that characteristic "setting my glasses right on my nose" move with an evil glint showing at edge of glasses "SMIRK"
Ishida: "Actually", ... 'shoots enormous new attack at Ginjou' "Actually, that shit doesn't work on Quincy ^^"
what follows is an endless explanation blah by Ishida how he tricked the evil guys and how Quincy are so superior not to fall prey to that technique
At which point Ginjou gets kinda enraged, lets loose for real and cuts Ishida nearly in half, AGAIN
of course he will be forgotten AGAIN and be healed ofscreen, AGAIN

NOW ITS 1vs1...
the usual routine.

[Haak]

Ishida's confession to Ichigo was genuine and suggests he still considers Ichigo to be his friend so Ishida isn't being manipulated, unless Ishida is the type to manipulate people (and he isn't).

Spoiler for off topic:

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

...I never feign ignorance. If I don't understand, I say I don't understand . What makes you think I feign ignorance? I might actually be ignorant. The word"Ignorant" doesn't always have a negative connotation, you know. It just means you don't know something, because you have never seen or heard of it before.

I'm well aware of that...

The reason I think you feigning ignorance is because you implied you didn't understand why people complained about everything when you said “I swear he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t” when I already told you why. In fact you just quoted the post containing that point and you're STILL saying you don't know so you really are feigning ignorance. (Or you're just incredible chivalrous)

Only a fool will not ask that which he/she doesn't know. Then there are times ask a stupid question get a stupid answer

Okay...

I either answer you or I don't. Sometimes because I feel like we're beating a dead horse. and it's not worth the effort. Or I am just lazy or there is something else I rather talk about. Or it's because all of your replies are condescending and you talk to me like I am an idiot. Simply because I don't agree. Although I like people who are like that, because it makes me look nice in comparison

Which I am well aware that sometimes I come across as the same way--but the difference is---If I think a user a complete moron I won't answer them at all. Because only an idiot would try to prove themselves superior to another idiot. I dunno about you but I can't speak "idiot" without a translator. So I can't answer you if I don't know what the hell you're talking about. So I ignore them...unless it's one of those cases where someone said something so stupid I was compelled to point it out.

That's not what my problem is. If you don't want to respond to me, that’s fine. I won't make any assumptions about you or anything. In fact after the thousand odd arguments’ we've had, this is the only time that I've actually followed up on one and demanded an answer for. Why? It's because you implied that I never made an argument to begin with. You're treating my point of view as if it's not even worth mentioning. You could have at least have the decency to acknowledge another person's point of view when making a criticism, especially when it was so recently pointed out to you, but I can't even get that much from you. Don't get me wrong. I'm not emotionally hurt about that. It's the hypocrisy. You claim to be so exasperated when people don't acknowledge your opinions. Well I'm trying to explain to you why (since you quite often ask).

BUT I NEVER ... feign ignorance

Not at this point. You've just been upgraded to "playing dumb".

You make me laugh a lot and I think you're fairly intelligent. I just think that there are some things that you haven't thought of that I have.

Lol.

You also take me too seriously, when sometimes I am just messing with you because I am a wise ass. I made a lewd joke about penetration and only Trizzy understood that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. While several you (you were one of them) began to argue with me about the difference between a "stabbing and cutting"

Point taken.

If I ask you a question, I asked you because I want to understand your POV. I might not agree but believe it or not I am trying to see things your way. Even if I don't agree

With you I feel like you're so biased in your opinions about Kubo--that you wouldn't see evidence that you may have been wrong. Even if he actually did whatever it is you're complaining about him not doing. It seems to me that you aren't willing to try and look at things from another perspective
Because you never really explain, and you dismiss what I say entirely only and reply with a sarcastic one-liner to the things that gives you a convenient excuse to insult me

At this point you've definitely gone off a tangent and I don't feel obliged to reply (partly the reason why I ignore some of your points, if you still didn't know), but I do so only because it seems you're directly criticising me personally this time. I always explain my points. Always. If I don't, it's because you should already know them from me explaining it to you beforehand. Okay maybe that's asking too much of you. Maybe I shouldn't expect you to remember everything I say to you. Maybe this entire problem wasn't you feigning ignorance after all. Maybe you really just didn't remember the point I made earlier about Kubo being damned if he don't and damned if he does. I just find it rather strange about how little you remember. I mean if you're so convinced that I'm the type that never explains my points; you must really have bad memory.

Haven't I said " of all the things I just said, you only replied to that?" to you before? Which means a part of my ignorance is actually your own fault because you've given me anything to go on. If you would just enlighten me I couldn't claim ignorance now could I?

Yes you have.

I reply to what I want to reply. I remember exactly why you said that. You said that because you made a huge rant about how people complain and this and that and why you think they're wrong. I replied to a part of it because I was replying only to your response to the criticisms I personally believed in. That's why I didn't reply to the other responses you made. Because they were responses to arguments that had nothing to do with me and that I had no opinion on, and I had no obligation to play devil's advocate. I explained to you quite clearly several times about how not everyone who criticises Bleach, criticises for the same reasons, didn’t I? Are you going to feign ignorance on that one too?
And if there are some opinions I hold that you really want to know then just ask. But don’t claim ignorance on points that I have already given my opinion on. Such as the one that started this argument now. (If you’ve already forgotten it’s the “Damned if he doesn’t and damned if he does one”)

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

If they could make their way out of the slums of the Rukongai, sure why not?

Though Giriko would just get beat down again if he tried to re-challenge Kenpachi...

Idon't see them haveing any problems with that as thier base power level seems to be at least that of Chad's who is high VC level at the least and power follows the soul not the body. you know this would be a realy sneaky way to invade SS if you didn't care about the living world as long as you are sure you aren't going to go to hell and if a human killed by a soul slayer is reborn in SS.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Casshern

Well, the logical part I was talking about was when he was explaining why Ichigo and Kenpachi wouldn't be appropriate opponents. But yeah, the "I despise your style" was typical "Byakuya".

As for Ichigo's power-ups, I've come to the conclusion that Ichigo never really increased his power; at least not in the sense of a traditional power-up where you obtain a power that you didn't have before i.e Ishida's final quincy form. In hindsight, I think that Ichigo has been unlocking power that was already inside him from the start. I heard this from LoP a couple of years ago and it's the most fitting theory I've heard about Ichigo's power so far.

At first he used Rukia's powers, which were massively boosted by his own reiatsu.
Then he unlocked his own enormous shinigami powers.
The he learned how to use bankai, which allowed him to fully manifest his existing captain class reiatsu.
Then he learned to tap into his hollow powers as a vizard.
His resureccion allowed him to fully manifest his hollow powers.
Final Getsuga broke the barrier between his hollow and shinigami powers, revealing them to be two sides of the same coin, and allowing Ichigo to materialize his true full power.

So while he made enormous leaps in strength, the power inside him hasn't changed from the start.

Ah you remembered... I must of left a good "impression" on you--These days it seems like you're the only one


Yeah he's the only character that doesn't have power-ups. His reiatsu is enormous and that's why it took damn near everyone's reiatsu to "jump start his" ...This is why he's an Emo-Kid. If he's conflicted he can't use his powers well . Kubo must do this so he can lose the fights that he should win. Because there would be no story otherwise. People always say "Plot-Armor" protects Ichigo but that's not true. The other characters are the ones wearing "plot-armor" to keep him from waxing their asses

Ichigo is noob and doesn't know anything, so he cannot tell you (the reader) anything. So Kubo has to tell his story through others and anyone who is has a similar power, has to be developed eventually...That is the reason for this arc. Not only did Kubo have to get the "Aizen" out...Bleach had to be re-set so he could introduce the Fullbringers--because Ichigo also has that ability. I just hope the fans and executive meddling doesn't make him kill off characters with great potential

Riruka is the only one I believe is safe from Kubo killing her--but you never know with him. It's funny how everyone went from saying "Nobody dies in Bleach" to thinking that a lot of people are going to die. It's what I love about Kubo. People say's he's predictable but the "troll" label belies that statement. A predictable troll? That's an a contradiction like a mofo --You never really know what's he going to do. Some things might be obvious but not everything. Kubo uses a lot of Fridge Logic and what seems retarded or a "plot hole" (you know those unanswered questions) makes sense in context

Kubo's words "Bleach is an Action Shounen, but I'd like you to think while reading it" paraphrasing here.

So I love Kubo but damn this chapter was boring --Nice panels for color though-- if the Fullbringers are wiped out or nearly wiped out, I think there will be a second wave

PLEASE let Zaraki do something other than ....I can't even say what it is. He'd be so kick ass with a Shikai. It's his thinking that he doesn't need a Shikai that keeps him from getting a Shikai. His fans are like that too...Imagine how awesome he'd be if he just did something-- I like the fights but it's the same thing all the time....and I swear to god, if Renji didn't get some kind of upgrade I am going to mail Kubo a tub of my poodle's poop in some Tupperware

[Casshern]

I think the only way Kenpachi is gonna talk with his zan is if somebody beats the crap out of him and puts him in coma.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Casshern

I think the only way Kenpachi is gonna talk with his zan is if somebody beats the crap out of him and puts him in coma.

*nods nods* the guy needs to get his ass kicked so badly, enough to make him realize that he's not the big shot as he thinks he is. the problem with zaraki, as much as i like the guy, is that he has a super-sized ego. he thinks that all he needs is his own physical prowess. he thinks of his zanpakutou as a mere cutting tool, no more than an ordinary sword. he doesn't believe that he and the sword are one.

but perhaps he's never meant to learn his zanpakutou's name. maybe that's what his character is supposed to be, a monstrous brute with raw and untamable power. personally, i kinda like him that way. but i have to admit, i am also interested to discover what his shikai or bankai might be.

[Langus]

Originally Posted by haegar

on the matter of Ishida being cut, what's prly gona happen is this:

Ginjou: "and now its 1vs1"
Ishida:"no, it's actually 2vs1"

Ginjou naturally thinks Ishida is cut by Tsukushima and with him
Ichigo thinks "great Ishida is back", however, "back the fuck off I can do this alone" - obviously he has no clue and doesn't even consider Ishida might be turned

Ginjou and Ichigo fight with Ishida standing by
at a moment of opportunity Ishida attacks Ichigo
Ichigo is all wtf?
Ginjou goes "HAHA trolled you, idiot, he's with me"
at that moment, Ishida does that characteristic "setting my glasses right on my nose" move with an evil glint showing at edge of glasses "SMIRK"
Ishida: "Actually", ... 'shoots enormous new attack at Ginjou' "Actually, that shit doesn't work on Quincy ^^"
what follows is an endless explanation blah by Ishida how he tricked the evil guys and how Quincy are so superior not to fall prey to that technique
At which point Ginjou gets kinda enraged, lets loose for real and cuts Ishida nearly in half, AGAIN
of course he will be forgotten AGAIN and be healed ofscreen, AGAIN

NOW ITS 1vs1...
the usual routine.

To be honest, I can see it going down exactly like this... That would actually be okay with me.

[Kafriel]

I'll stay out of the plot chat and simply add a compliment for Kubo's art, last chapter made a good impression on me...

To be honest, I can see it going down exactly like this... That would actually be okay with me.

Sounds like bleach alright

[sayde]

The chapter 465 thread has been opened. Please direct discussion regarding the next chapter into the appropriate thread.