Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 24 [END] Discussion / Poll

[lubczyk]

Rayet got away like the rat she was, being apart of the Asseylum assassination attempt and all.

Slaine, being a terran scapegoat, was blamed for Asseylum's assassination to take the blame off the Martians and the Royal Family so Asseylum could have her peace.

I see what the writer's were going for. It's so messed up.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by glaceon_cute

Are we coming back to the Episode 7 discussion again? I know everything went wrong after that episode, but continuing this debate is meaningless. Slaine shot first, then Inaho shot him, that's all that matter.

Kinda funny though because that pretty much set him down the path of destruction that ended up leading to the princess' coma stasis.

And then to make things worse he ends up saving Saazabum when he already knows the count wanted to kill the princess to begin with I mean seriously

First scenario is understandable but second scenario was just messed up.

In war, we doubt people, your enemy can be friendly with you just to shoot you later. Slaine did ask politely by Japanese standard like he always does. Put him over the radio with princess will also get a no from Inaho because you still can point out her's position by searching the radio, so for him to ask for that is useless. I just feel the misunderstanding is a bad luck, but we does that all the time in real life. Why should we expect the characters do right every time? We understood both, but they didn't, that's why they acted that way. Don't try to force our ideas on them.

Common sense and logic dictates that Slaine was in no position to make such rude demands to the Terrans.

Given the fact that he trusted the Terrans enough that they were keeping the princess safe for him to turn on his fellow martians means he should've at least given them the benefit of the doubt and asked Inaho politely.

For this episode, it's okay. I'm disappointed that no one died on the Terran side. However, this's a normal ending and not the wtf thing we usually get. Two sides have the treaty is the best outcome we can get for now, and as if Aoki wants to imply that we can't never get rid of wars, nor prevent it from happening. There will still be wars in the future, but for now, let enjoy this false peace. It's just like his other series, Psycho Pass and Fate Zero, where nothing changes at all.

But then what was the whole point of all this? The whole reason behind the assassination was because Sazzabum wanted justification for war and also to get badly needed resources for the common folks back on Mars. Slaine ended up taking that as part of his goal yet nothing gets mentioned of it so the status quo still remains the same?

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by Casshern

Tbh the plot shat all over Slaine after ep 7. He was interesting as an antihero but ultimately weak as a villain. I never understood why they decided to make him the bad guy. Of course the ultimate irony is that Asseylum ended up marrying Klancain, whose father used to beat the crap out of Slaine. The insult could only get worse if they made him babysit their child.

That last kamikaze attack made no sense at all. There was no reason for Harklight, the other orbital knight and their few followers to go and literally throw away their lives just because Slaine's dream ended. The war itself was dissolved way too easily. Klancain was too convenient a plot device. Worst of all, the Tharsis lost in a straight up 1v1 fight against a Sleipnir without ever seeming to be even close to getting the upper hand.

Overall it was a bad ending imo. I couldn't feel anything for Asseylum. I thought Rayet was going to be Asseylum's antithesis but she never got much attention. Slaine's character was ruined and in the end we basically got InahoxSlayne.

Urobuchi!Slaine!



Aoki has said several times that the overall story has been protected, and that was Urobuchi's.
this only confirms, that Slaine was created to be the antagonist and villain of Aldnoah.Zero, regardless of who wrote the script.
Slaine ambitious character, Inaho and Asseylum fall in love, and Slaine steal the princess.
Takayama shit all, he created a naive personality in the first season, created another personality more serious at the beginning of second season,in the middle of the second season he again created another personality now to villain, that would probably be the original.
It seemed that he had multiple personalities.

[glaceon_cute]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

Common sense and logic dictates that Slaine was in no position to make such rude demands to the Terrans.

Given the fact that he trusted the Terrans enough that they were keeping the princess safe for him to turn on his fellow martians means he should've at least given them the benefit of the doubt and asked Inaho politely.

If I remembered correctly, he actually said "please" (kudasai) and several polite terms in Japanese. It's just that he made a wrong decision by refusing saying his true motive. From the start, Slaine didn't trust anyone beside hime since everyone treated him like trash, we can't expect him to sudden open his mind and tell the truth to someone can be potentially a spy (remember, there are Martian that blended in Terran). And Inaho, oh...he has never good at words and communication since the beginning, that's one of his character's trait...

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

But then what was the whole point of all this? The whole reason behind the assassination was because Sazzabum wanted justification for war and also to get badly needed resources for the common folks back on Mars. Slaine ended up taking that as part of his goal yet nothing gets mentioned of it so the status quo still remains the same?

Sazz wanted Vers can be prosperous, people can live a full life. In Episode 24, Asseylum actually did establish a treaty that opens the trade between two planets. Now Vers can have food and all the stuffs from Earth, which would save Martians from their harsh environment. They are also searching how to give Aldnoah to everyone, which would erase the status quo. Everything now left in our imagination, but at least we get some hints from it. It's just never be 100% that it's going to work out as fine as hime is thinking.

Originally Posted by Hidetoshi Nakata

Urobuchi!Slaine!



Aoki has said several times that the overall story has been protected, and that was Urobuchi's.
this only confirms, that Slaine was created to be the antagonist and villain of Aldnoah.Zero, regardless of who wrote the script.
Slaine ambitious character, Inaho and Asseylum fall in love, and Slaine steal the princess.
Takayama shit all, he created a naive personality in the first season, created another personality more serious at the beginning of second season,in the middle of the second season he again created another personality now to villain, that would probably be the original.
It seemed that he had multiple personalities.

It's not Takayama but Aoki himself that was in charge of building the characters. If you read several interviews that exist before SS2, you will realize how much the characters he planned have become very different, and that was the story that forced him to change them because it wouldn't work unless he did that. In Slaine's case, he just think that it would make him more interesting if Slaine is a "character that being broken by the situation" (adding more drama, lol). The original Slaine is a rebellious type that always wants revenge.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

Had Slaine used his brain and cooperated and not demanded unreasonable things, many things would not have happened. But not using his brain, is one of Slaines many many strong points. Like for example his hypocrisy or his lying, or his excessive obsession with a onsided romance...

I'm just going to step in here for a moment. I couldn't care less about Inaho or Slaine, but you keep saying Slaine "demanded unreasonable things"....are we talking about the end of episode 7? Because I'm afraid nothing he said there was unreasonable. He expressed happiness that the princess was alive and then asked to see her. In fact, Inaho was the one behaving antagonistically in that scene with his silly "if she is exploited do you have a problem with that?" I mean, that's a pretty stupid question to ask someone who obviously cares for the princess. Inaho could have taken Slaine in for questioning. This is someone who just saved them and could be a potential ally and have information. If not, you can take him as a prisoner. It always felt it was really dumb for him to shoot Slaine down and not take him in for questioning.

Overall, I didn't have many issues with Slaine in cour 1. I didn't like him. Didn't hate him. It was the second half where the show jumped the shark and started making Slaine do really mind boggling and idiotic things.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by casiopao

The dead of Osama and Saddam eventually lead to even more violent damage to both the countries though. Poverty strikes even more and more brutal strike and fight happen there.

That's because the factions under those dead guys fought against each other to be the new leader. They don't have a new leader to unite under after the old one died.

In contrast A/Z, most Vers will unite under AsseylumxKlancain after Slaine is gone. Yes there are rebelling Lords as the show stated.

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

But then what was the whole point of all this? The whole reason behind the assassination was because Sazzabum wanted justification for war and also to get badly needed resources for the common folks back on Mars. Slaine ended up taking that as part of his goal yet nothing gets mentioned of it so the status quo still remains the same?

Saazbaum wants to get the resources and end royal monopoly of Aldnoah through war.

Asseylum wants to get the resources and end royal monopoly of Aldnoah through peace.

They both wanted more or less the same thing, just methods differs.
Also Saazbaum wants revenge, so that's also a big difference.

Anyway, by Asseylum orders, Mars now selling Aldnoah to Earth in return for Earth resources, and they are doing research on how to make Aldnoah activation rights universal. That way soon the Vers royalty will lose its political edge, and naturally Vers will evolve slowly into democracy or some sort.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by zalem

I'm just going to step in here for a moment. I couldn't care less about Inaho or Slaine, but you keep saying Slaine "demanded unreasonable things"....are we talking about the end of episode 7? Because I'm afraid nothing he said there was unreasonable. He expressed happiness that the princess was alive and then asked to see her. In fact, Inaho was the one behaving antagonistically in that scene with his silly "if she is exploited do you have a problem with that?" I mean, that's a pretty stupid question to ask someone who obviously cares for the princess. Inaho could have taken Slaine in for questioning. This is someone who just saved them and could be a potential ally and have information. If not, you can take him as a prisoner. It always felt it was really dumb for him to shoot Slaine down and not take him in for questioning.

Overall, I didn't have many issues with Slaine in cour 1. I didn't like him. Didn't hate him. It was the second half where the show jumped the shark and started making Slaine do really mind boggling and idiotic things.

Slaine's refusal to answer Inaho's question first and then making demands to see the Princess.
That was antagonistic of Slaine.

He then pointed his gun at Inaho before asking "Do you mean to exploit her?" and even before hearing Inaho's answer.
I think that qualifies as antagonistic.

Lastly he shot at Inaho, before asking "Are you my enemy?"
Which is rather antagonistic. I mean, are you meaning to tell me Slaine shot at Inaho without fully ascertaining first whether Inaho really is an enemy?

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by glaceon_cute

It's not Takayama but Aoki himself that was in charge of building the characters. If you read several interviews that exist before SS2, you will realize how much the characters he planned have become very different, and that was the story that forced him to change them because it wouldn't work unless he did that. In Slaine's case, he just think that it would make him more interesting if Slaine is a "character that being broken by the situation" (adding more drama, lol). The original Slaine is a rebellious type that always wants revenge.

Who creates the dialogues is Takayama.
I'm sure the idea of using a whip rather than instruments of torture, during the torture scene was the idea of Takayama. In full war using whip rather than instruments of torture. A planet with super technology using a whip is joke.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Slaine's refusal to answer Inaho's question first and then making demands to see the Princess.
That was antagonistic of Slaine.

He then pointed his gun at Inaho before asking "Do you mean to exploit her?" and even before hearing Inaho's answer.
I think that qualifies as antagonistic.

Lastly he shot at Inaho, before asking "Are you my enemy?"
Which is rather antagonistic. I mean, are you meaning to tell me Slaine shot at Inaho without fully ascertaining first whether Inaho really is an enemy?

He was surprised by Inaho's question and then politely requested to be taken to the princess. Nothing in the Japanese he used was threatening or antagonistic. It was a reasonable request for him to make. He probably should have just answered Inaho's question though, but I suppose his distrust caused him to decline. The pointing guns was definitely stupid. But imho Inaho's exploiting remark was insane. Unless he was deliberately trying to provoke and cause a reaction. I'd be tempted to shoot him too if I was an ally of the princess after a remark like that. To me the way the scene came off was that Inaho knew full well that this was a friend of the princess and that he would be opposed to any exploitation of the princess hence he shot him down and left him there so that he wouldn't get in the way of their exploitation plans. I suppose this makes his not taking Slaine prisoner make sense. It also makes it a rather asshole move on Inaho's part. Either that or he was jealous and wanted to keep out a potential suitor to the princess, but that it not likely considering this is Inaho we are talking about.

[EternalSpringFlower]

Originally Posted by zalem

In fact, Inaho was the one behaving antagonistically in that scene with his silly "if she is exploited do you have a problem with that?" I mean, that's a pretty stupid question to ask someone who obviously cares for the princess.

It's not stupid, it's weirdly manipulative, especially for Inaho.
It's obvious from Slaine's disposition in that episode that he is interested in the princess personally and that he isn't one of the Orbital Knights. He was fighting against one together with a Terran.

The only reason to say that is to rile up the opponent. Inaho has no reason to do that. I saw the argument saying Inaho guessed Slaine's identity correctly and was jealous over hime liking him, but that's way too out there.
But yes if Inaho wanted to provoke Slaine and then kill him while having a legitimate reason to do that, it makes sense.
Yet--one more 'but'--Inaho doesn't need a reason to kill Slaine in that situation. If he wanted Slaine dead, he could have just attacked him without any conversation.

Just one more thing about AZ that makes little sense.

"Can you please be kind enough to take me as your lowly prisoner and then maybe allow me to see the princess who I'm sure you aren't using for your own purposes because you look so noble and awesome." That's what Slaine should have said, preferably with a deep bow.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower

It's not stupid, it's weirdly manipulative, especially for Inaho.
It's obvious from Slaine's disposition in that episode that he is interested in the princess personally and that he isn't one of the Orbital Knights. He was fighting against one together with a Terran.

The only reason to say that is to rile up the opponent. Inaho has no reason to do that. I saw the argument saying Inaho guessed Slaine's identity correctly and was jealous over hime liking him, but that's way too out there.
But yes if Inaho wanted to provoke Slaine and then kill him while having a legitimate reason to do that, it makes sense.
Yet--one more 'but'--Inaho doesn't need a reason to kill Slaine in that situation. If he wanted Slaine dead, he could have just attacked him without any conversation.

Just one more thing about AZ that makes little sense.

If you think about it, the whole mess would have been avoided if those two acted rationally.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower

It's not stupid, it's weirdly manipulative, especially for Inaho.
It's obvious from Slaine's disposition in that episode that he is interested in the princess personally and that he isn't one of the Orbital Knights. He was fighting against one together with a Terran.

The only reason to say that is to rile up the opponent. Inaho has no reason to do that. I saw the argument saying Inaho guessed Slaine's identity correctly and was jealous over hime liking him, but that's way too out there.
But yes if Inaho wanted to provoke Slaine and then kill him while having a legitimate reason to do that, it makes sense.

Yeah, that's why I think the jealous thing doesn't fit. I do, however, feel he is deliberately trying to rile Slaine up. I also believe he does know at the very least he is speaking with an ally of the princess. And I do believe he is doing it because he believes that using the princess is a logical move and that Slaine might possibly get in the way of that. It has nothing to do with emotions or feelings and everything to do with what Inaho thought migh help them strategically (which I think was dumb because Slaine's usefulness as a possible source of information and as an ally should have outweighed the mere possibility of his interference as a friend of the princess. Not to mention you can use the princess subtly and not scream HEY WE WANT TO EXPLOIT HER!) . So he leaves Slaine there. Ultimately, I think that was the wrong move and he should have just taken Slaine prisoner. Funny thing this entire thing could have been avoided had Slaine just answered the question and had Inaho not deliberately try to provoke Slaine and instead captured him. Stupid actions all around.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

When the enemy is in possession of a hostage.
You're in no position to make demands.
because you may end up annoying the enemy, and he may end up killing the hostage.
the standard used is the dialogue, and accept the requirement of enemy which is in the possession hostage.
so the police are instructed to act in cases that have involved hostages.

[Dauerlutscher]

Inaho: I'm bigger and stronger than you and I have have something that you want but I'm nut sure if it's right tu trust you.
Slaine: I'm weaker than you and won't cooperate with you. I don't want to play by your rules, I want to play by my own rules. The moment you don't play by my rules I get butthurt, demand unreasonable things without considering my own weak position and when it's clear that it doesn't go my way, I shoot.

This is how it was. God dammit.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by zalem

He was surprised by Inaho's question and then politely requested to be taken to the princess. Nothing in the Japanese he used was threatening or antagonistic. It was a reasonable request for him to make. He probably should have just answered Inaho's question though, but I suppose his distrust caused him to decline. The pointing guns was definitely stupid. But imho Inaho's exploiting remark was insane. Unless he was deliberately trying to provoke and cause a reaction. I'd be tempted to shoot him too if I was an ally of the princess after a remark like that. To me the way the scene came off was that Inaho knew full well that this was a friend of the princess and that he would be opposed to any exploitation of the princess hence he shot him down and left him there so that he wouldn't get in the way of their exploitation plans. I suppose this makes his not taking Slaine prisoner make sense. It also makes it a rather asshole move on Inaho's part. Either that or he was jealous and wanted to keep out a potential suitor to the princess, but that it not likely considering this is Inaho we are talking about.

https://youtu.be/xAp2in0tp0o?t=335

Inaho had asked Slaine "The Princess was pronounced dead, and yet why were you looking for her?"

Inaho repeated the question twice.

Slaine asked "What do you mean?"

Inaho replied "Please answer the question."

Then we see Slaine, his eyebrows arching and demanding "Bring me to the Princess." without first answering Inaho's question. Clearly Slaine is not surprised at this moment, and is willfully not answering the question. Instead he arrogantly demanding.

Inaho calmly said "I can't allow you that"

In which Slaine grunted, and then pointed his guns at Inaho and asked almost accusingly "Are you planning to exploit the Princess?"

Inaho asked a trick question, "If she is exploited... do you have a problem with it?"

Inaho wants to ascertain which side Slaine really was on. Inaho had no reason to answer Slaine as Slaine never answered Inaho.

Plus, exploitation can mean many things. If Terrans were using her to help end the war then yes its also a type of exploitation. For all Inaho knows, Slaine might be searching for Asseylum to prevent Terrans using Asseylum to making peace.

Yet Inaho doesn't shoot Slaine. He waited for Slaine to answer him.

If Slaine had continue to talk instead of shooting, then it would had ended differently...

And yes; Slaine asked "Are you my enemy?" after he shot at said "friend" just seconds ago. If someone did that to me, I'm pretty sure he isn't a friend.

[zalem]

I'm sorry but I don't believe his request to see the princess was unreasonable. It was perfectly reasonable thing to ask. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Now his not coming out and saying what his intentions were was probably a bad move on Slaine's part. But Inaho's behavior was equally bad. He should have taken Slaine prisoner, plain and simple. Instead he decides to mouth off, shoot Slaine down and then NOT take him prisoner even though this is a potential ally or at least someone they can get information out of.

Though I feel that given Inaho's behavior I bet that even if Slaine had answered the question Inaho would have most likely shot him down in the end anyway. To me it's pretty clear that Inaho shot Slaine down and left him instead of taking him prisoner because he felt that Slaine might get in the way of his side's exploitation of the princess. It was plainly the wrong move though.

Edit: the Japanese used in the scene is not a command. He asked to be taken to the princess. He wasn't being arrogant.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by zalem

I'm sorry but I don't believe his request to see the princess was unreasonable. It was perfectly reasonable thing to ask. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Now his not coming out and saying what his intentions were was probably a bad move on Slaine's part. But Inaho's behavior was equally bad. He should have taken Slaine prisoner, plain and simple. Instead he decides to mouth off, shoot Slaine down and then NOT take him prisoner even though this is a potential ally or at least someone they can get information out of.

Though I feel that given Inaho's behavior I bet that even if Slaine had answered the question Inaho would have most likely shot him down in the end anyway. To me it's pretty clear that Inaho shot Slaine down and left him instead of taking him prisoner because he felt that Slaine might get in the way of his side's exploitation of the princess. It was plainly the wrong move though.

Edit: the Japanese used in the scene is not a command. He asked to be taken to the princess. He wasn't being arrogant.

He was in no position to demand anything. Sorry, but he had NO power or bargaining chips to use at that point. None. In any reality, he would have been laughed at before being shot down for what he was demanding.

[monster]

Originally Posted by zalem

I'm sorry but I don't believe his request to see the princess was unreasonable.

It's unreasonable because Inaho doesn't know whether or not Slaine will try to kill Asseylum. That's why Inaho wanted Slaine to answer the question first.

He should have taken Slaine prisoner, plain and simple. Instead he decides to mouth off, shoot Slaine down and then NOT take him prisoner even though this is a potential ally or at least someone they can get information out of.

And risk Slaine getting close to assassinate Asseylum? They're a makeshift crew trying to escape to safety. They don't have time to risk having an enemy onboard, even as a prisoner.

Though I feel that given Inaho's behavior I bet that even if Slaine had answered the question Inaho would have most likely shot him down in the end anyway. To me it's pretty clear that Inaho shot Slaine down and left him instead of taking him prisoner because he felt that Slaine might get in the way of his side's exploitation of the princess. It was plainly the wrong move though.

If that was the case, Inaho would've just fired without asking any question. It's much more efficient that way.

[zalem]

He just helped to save their asses. One would think that's worth something at the very least. And he didn't command. He asked. Again, he should have just answered the damn original question instead of being evasive. And pointing the guns was certainly stupid. But there was little harm in him asking his question.

[monster]

Originally Posted by zalem

He just helped to save their asses. One would think that's worth something at the very least. And he didn't command. He asked. Again, he should have just answered the damn original question instead of being evasive. But there was little harm in him asking his question.

That's fine, but Inaho already answered his request (assuming no translation error): Answer my question first.

So if he wanted to be taken to Asseylum, then he should've simply answered the question.