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View Poll Results: Favorite Pairing in Code Geass R2
Lelouch Stays Single 141 13.51%
Lelouch x C.C. 678 64.94%
Lelouch x Kallen 340 32.57%
Lelouch x Millay 54 5.17%
Lelouch x Harem 121 11.59%
Suzaku Stays Single 148 14.18%
Suzaku x Nunally 60 5.75%
Lloyd x Millay 23 2.20%
Viletta x Ougi 179 17.15%
Rival x Millay 93 8.91%
Lloyd x Cecile 116 11.11%
Kanon x Nina 45 4.31%
Xing-ke x Tianzi 150 14.37%
Todou x Chiba 81 7.76%
Gino x Anya 52 4.98%
Cornelia x Guilford 142 13.60%
Zero x Kaguya 87 8.33%
Others (please list) 96 9.20%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1044. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-08-29, 18:27   Link #3981
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Er...no. Anything but that cliché "sex once + death + lol kid" please. And I stand by what I said earlier as far as sex with Lelouch is concerned.
what did you say
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:31   Link #3982
TheDisruptiveOne
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Well, obviously my scenario is "out there"...but I think both pairing groups needs to accept that it will be something like this. No clear winner. Both girls will have romantic/intimate moments with Lelouch during the last 4 episodes.
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:31   Link #3983
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Vito View Post
What gives you the idea you're less annoying than other fans?
Because i'm more objective than the other (some not all) and that i don't say in my post than kallen is a bitch maybe (or evil) ? But i admit that i'm biased sometimes (and everyone is anyway). Anyway it will be my last post on this, we're in the romance thraed and i'm not here to start a war.
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:33   Link #3984
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Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Because i'm more objective than the other (some not all) and that i don't say in my post than kallen is a bitch maybe (or evil) ? But i admit that i'm biased sometimes (and everyone is anyway). Anyway it will be my last post on this, we're in the romance thraed and i'm not here to start a war.
Kallen is a bitch, and evil.
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:38   Link #3985
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Kallen is a bitch, and evil.
are you trying to start a war then
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:38   Link #3986
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
are you trying to start a war then
Wells, I haven't argued with you guys in a couple of days.
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:39   Link #3987
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
what did you say
That Kallen would have to rape Lelouch for anything of the kind to happen. I'd rather not see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDisruptiveOne View Post
Well, obviously my scenario is "out there"...but I think both pairing groups needs to accept that it will be something like this. No clear winner. Both girls will have romantic/intimate moments with Lelouch during the last 4 episodes.
Well, Kallen having Lelouch's kid seems way too much for a "no clear winner" scenario. But I could see an open ending to satisfy most fans. A scene with C.C that C.C fans would see as victory, and a scene with Kallen that Kallen fans would see as victory too (...neverending shipping wars, yay). Heck, I'd even expect an ambiguously gay dialogue at the very end to satisfy everyone. Marketting power.
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Old 2008-08-29, 18:42   Link #3988
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Well, Kallen having Lelouch's kid seems way too much for a "no clear winner" scenario. But I could see an open ending to satisfy most fans. A scene with C.C that C.C fans would see as victory, and a scene with Kallen that Kallen fans would see as victory too (...neverending shipping wars, yay). Heck, I'd even expect an ambiguously gay dialogue at the very end to satisfy everyone. Marketting power.
Yeah, the idea of sex really does kind of make it one sided, but Lelouch with CC for eternity also kind of balances out the child.
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Old 2008-08-29, 19:46   Link #3989
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I like both Kallen and C.C but I personally think if their a couples at the end Lelouch might not be apart of one. Lelouch "cares" for people he cares about C.C and Kallen differently. The only person he loves is his Nunnally as a sister. Unless he changes in the next 4 episode love is beyond his understanding. I'd be satisified if the three live and stay friends all taking care of Nunnally. Kallen never did anything so I don't know why she has too die? And how is she a bitch just because she loves Lelouch? Well than half the girls in Geass do. C.C should live because she's suffered so much already she deserves to live a happy life for once. Lelouch well we wouldn't be happy if he died plus he can live to atone for his sins. Suzaku can live too because Nunnally would be sad if he died. Anyway people will probably hate me for saying this.
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Old 2008-08-29, 20:11   Link #3990
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...Nunnally's dead.
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Old 2008-08-29, 23:41   Link #3991
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Originally Posted by cupahe View Post
This is why i hate newtype. stupid editor of shittiness (who also wondered if xingke had a thing for kallen after episode 3 or whatever it was) was like 'foreshadowing of love?' in a magazine three months ago about gino hitting on kallen in 9. that is where this pairing came from, for all those wondering.

suffice to say he never repeated that bullshit again, but it did the damage. but at least its not as horrible as suzaku x kallen which is still by far more popular and, probably, based in more reality than gino x kallen... by a very very long stretch. suzaku x kallen fans on 2ch are also far more annoying and numerous... and it seems that most people have taken to bashing gino x kallen atm leaving those bums to spew their bullshit too.

i'm half expecting them to wonder if he has a thing for kallen again in the next magazine but seeing as how it wasn't in the recent one... who knows. im going to laugh my ass off if they have it again and gino gets killed by kallen. cockblocked to the extreme.

Hey relax, it is and propably will always be just a pairing...merely fanonwise.

I'm not sure what you guys regard as shipping, to me it is nothing more than just watching/drawing some fanarts/doujins and reading/writing some fanfics...Moreover, some ramblings don't hurt that much. The average shipper doesn't fool around and howl "go die" to people who prefer a different pairing.


BTW, which kind of pairings do you like? The one that is more possible to be canon, or the one you actually find appealing?

That's why I've chosen GinoXKallen over Kalulu, and Kalulu over CluCLu.
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Old 2008-08-29, 23:44   Link #3992
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Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody View Post
Hey relax, it is and propably will always be just a pairing...merely fanonwise.

I'm not sure what you guys regard as shipping, to me it is nothing more than just watching/drawing some fanarts/doujins and reading/writing some fanfics...Moreover, some ramblings don't hurt that much. The average shipper doesn't fool around and howl "go die" to people who prefer a different pairing.
BTW, which kind of pairings do you like? The one that is more possible to be canon, or the one you actually find appealing?

That's why I've chosen GinoXKallen over Kalulu, and Kalulu over CluCLu.
Appearantly, you haven't been a in a Naruto/Sakura vs. Naruto/Hinata debate.
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Old 2008-08-29, 23:49   Link #3993
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Well, Kallen having Lelouch's kid seems way too much for a "no clear winner" scenario. But I could see an open ending to satisfy most fans. A scene with C.C that C.C fans would see as victory, and a scene with Kallen that Kallen fans would see as victory too (...neverending shipping wars, yay). Heck, I'd even expect an ambiguously gay dialogue at the very end to satisfy everyone. Marketting power.
Sneeze-kun does say that Lelouch is the one he love the most
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Old 2008-08-30, 00:12   Link #3994
dec4rhapsody
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Originally Posted by Dilla View Post
Appearantly, you haven't been a in a Naruto/Sakura vs. Naruto/Hinata debate.
I have been in a SasuSaku+NaruHina vs NaruSaku one(Narutofan)

Yeah, I should fix the sentence...The average crack-shipper....
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Old 2008-08-30, 00:30   Link #3995
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and I thought the Romance thread was finally starting to get out of the hole....
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Old 2008-08-30, 00:33   Link #3996
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
...
:P Typos galore, man. Were you half-asleep or something (don't worry, I can sympathize...)? To be honest, I don't think you supported your premise here nearly as well as you did in the first post of yours I read; primarily because, your criticisms of Kallen aren't nearly as strong or well-conceived as the ones you threw at Suzaku.

Though maybe that is to be expected; as you yourself stated that Kallen is your second favourite female character. As far as I can tell, your main argument has been that Lelouch has kept Kallen far away for most of the series, so that even if she has been making significant gains throughout this season, this will likely be a case of 'too little, too late'? But if that's truly the sum of it, and you don't actually have anything against the idea--ideological and symbolical--of Kallen and Lelouch ending up together, then I'm not sure there's any point to tossing a purely predictive statement like "C.C. will win, if anybody will" into the 200 pages of this third "Romance in Code Geass" thread.

:P Well, maybe that's just me. With the relation which was my principle interest in this section long dead and gone, I've got nothing to offer but opinion and little appreciation for possibilities and speculation.

Ah, to bring this to the point. I'll first go through your posts touching briefly (eh...hopefully :P) on things I find notable as a short preview of my point of view, then end with a short summary of my views of C.C., Kallen, and Shirley.

From the end of your first post:

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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
I'm not saying I'm necessarily right or that this is the only viable viewpoint. But this is what I believe from what I have seen and taken out from the series. I think the chemistry between Lelouch and C.C. is intrguing, mature and goes beyond a normal, stock standard relationship. Even if they don't end up together, I think Lelouch and C.C. shared a very special bond that can never be denied, one that rranscends normal relationships and is truly beautiful. But for the sake of Lelouch being able to appreciate he doesn't have to walk his path alone, which is still his greatest flaw, and for C.C. to be able to finally be truly, honestly loved, I would like to see the two of them be together. They are only truly able to be more honest with each toher compared to other people, they see each other as equals, they have been able to compliment the flaws/weaknesses in one of them with their own strengths/beliefs/actions.

And that is why I support this relationship more than Lelouch x Kallen or any other option.
Lelouch has often struck me as someone erratically (:P irrationally) sincere and sympathetic. In the past, I conjured up an unnecessarily convoluted explanation for this, but now I figure it might as well simply exist to facilitate his projective role for the audience. Case in point, Lelouch's response to girls in weak and vulnerable moments is consistent enough that we might well just call it universal, and as such I wouldn't sometimes say that Lelouch has 'special' or 'transcendental' bonds with people so much that Lelouch is just a 'special' person himself.

That is to say, it seems to me that the cold, hard reality is that none of Lelouch's relationships with romantic interests are truly irreplaceable. The freedom and lack of selectivity with which Lelouch form's 'meaningful relationships' implies that ultimately, none of his relationships are truly meaningful.

As for your second statement, that you would see Lelouch and C.C. together for the sake of them realizing what love and companionship really are, I cannot argue this would be good for them. However, with C.C. being one of the principle actors in pushing Lelouch towards a lonely path in the first place, I would find this a little sad and ironic.

From your second post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
He doesn't want to get rid of her...Where on earth did you get that from? Not every person is simply a pawn in Lelouch's eyes. But yes, C.C. never allowed herself to be classified as something simply to be manipulated. She can read Lelouch's true thoughts quite readily. She doesn't tell him everything all at once, which prevents him from being in control of her. C.C. gave him the power to make things happen. Without it, Lelouch wouldn't have lived past the first episode. Initially, Lelouch may not have liked that. But he does acknowledge C.C. as an equal and as a necessity. If anything, if it was a chess game, Lelouch would be king and C.C. the queen. C.C. is not a person who likes people to know things about her or to let people into her inner circle. Yet she takes such a risk with Lelouch.
This is actually quite an interesting point. If one thinks of it (or...well, if one listens to Charle's dialogue), Lelouch has been lying to everyone since his mother's death. His false identity Lelouch Lamperouge, for his sister and his friends. His false identity Zero, for his subordinates and his allies. The one exception to this desperate existence is C.C.--but she is lying to him too. To say that Lelouch vi Britannia viewed [C.C.'s real name] as an equal is only as meaningful as saying that Kallen Stadtfeld or Shirley Fennete saw Lelouch Lamperouge as the same; there is no ideal reciprocity in this show. In fact, the closest mutuality I can even think of was in Euphie and Suzaku's relationship, where both indulged the delusions of the other to bolster their sense of self-worth.

Quote:
...Yet if C.C. is nothing but a necessary means to an end, as you claim she is, why is it Lelouch is more open with her and gives her kindness that he gives no one else? If anything, over time, Lelouch grows closer to C.C. and Kallen yet distances himself more from Nunnally, Shirley and his other friends....
A bitterly ironic truth.

Quote:
Oh, I give her credit for that too. Because there were times Lelouch believes his own BS too much and made stupid mistakes that would have cost him everything. Lelouch is regularly a victim of his own ego. Remarks like C.C.'s, such as the one you mentioned, keep Lelouch in check. That is what a responsible person does about someone they give a damn about. The Black Knights, Kallen, other friends - they all feed Lelouch's ego. C.C. is the exception. She brings it down. Lelouch's tendencies are to be reckless and to be too sure of himself. C.C. either slanders him to show him he isn't perfect or saves his hide when he is about to stuff it up with mortal consequences.
Hahaha, I'll ask you to give Shirley credit here too. The foundation of her love in the first place was a determination to right Lelouch's wayward path (gambling, truancy, and apathy--followed later by inconstancy; but if it was love, as indeed it was love, then why not nihilism, deception, and hate?) so she's done her fair share of ego smashing (seriously, that scene in Turn 12 was epic).

Quote:
He's already owing her for eternity by then. Accepting Geass, saving him in the 1st battle versus Cornelia. But as you say, Lelouch is a victim of pride/ego and he doesn't like owing others. He likes to be the one in control. That probably played some part in it. But Lelouch is a very rational person. The only three people that cause hi emotions to get the better of him are C.C., Kallen and Nunnally. During the hotel siege in Ep8 S1, he didn't lsoe his marbles while figuring out what to do or how to save Milly and Shirley. He was calm the whole time and never felt that things were out of his control. But if he is put in a situation where C.C. (Ep15 S2), Kallen (Ep10 S2) and Nunnally (couple of times in S1, plenty in S2), his emotions come into play and he can no longer purely be dictated by reason.
:P Again I must protest your claims of exclusivity (and Lelouch's rationality). I'd like to just say 'throw Shirley in there too' again (refer to Lelouch's leap off the top of a building and subsequent outburst in Turn 13) but really, he holds all his friends dear to his heart (Suzaku functions as another explicit example, though his case is a different circumstance). The psychological trauma of losing his mother at 10 years old is more than explanation enough.


>_< so much for a 'short preview'. Though actually, I guess it's short enough. Well, I'm going to finish in response to these two paragraphs, then:

Quote:
Just wanted to say - I think Kallen is an awesome character as well. I really do like her. C.C. and Kallen are my favourite female characters ever, period. I think there's so much depth, intrigue and personality to both. Yet so different. I do hope that Kallen can find some peace in the end, i.e. lives. But I can't see her ending up with Lelouch. While they have grown closer, there is still distance between them. Perhaps a confrontation between the two will resolve that. I think one should happen just so things are settled. But then again, reality doesn't always allow it, so the series might not either.

As for Shirley - yes, she's a good girl. Perhaps naive, but good, kind, honest, a true friend. 13 S2 was memorable, moving, tragic. She really could have changed Lelouch for the better. But here's the thing though. Lelouch never understood her, he didn't trust her, he wasn't able to be kind back to her. Which makes it ever so more tragic. Lelouch was only able to see it/understand Shirley when it was too late. It was the romance everyone around them thought would happen. It was one Shirley wanted. But it was never going to be. That was Shirley's role. The woman who loved him but wasn't loved back, yet was able to make him change. The loss made him re-evaluate the consequences of his actions such that if anyone else he cared about was in mortal danger, he'd do whatever it took to make sure they lived.
Heh. I must admit, your tastes are far different from my own. Although you asked for my thoughts on this issue, it is unfortunate that I must bluntly state that I find it easy to dislike both Kallen and C.C.. As one who not only opened Lelouch's path of self-destruction but even pushed him further along it, all the while withholding knowledge of a vital truth that would have discredited the hate which motivated him, C.C. seemed from the beginning to be the antithesis of Lelouch's happiness. Even as the singularity which can erase Lelouch's solitude in times of loss like Stage 23, her words at those times--"I will be the only one...left beside you"--seem designed to compel him towards a desolate future for the pursuit of her own selfish wish (whether that be death or true love regardless).

But while I saw C.C. as the shadow of a foreboding future, I never bore disdain for her mind. Kallen, on the other hand, I saw as someone who fell too quickly into righteous arrogance and aggression. Furthermore, as a thoroughly uncreative person, she is often swept up by the words of others, unable or unwilling to find her own. Kallen seems to me to be the epitome of that subjective passion which only spawns and cultivates conflict, an uncompromising, unquestioning flame bound unflinchingly to self-interest. As someone who is changed rather than a changer, Kallen has always been ideally unsuited to pulling Lelouch off the path of destruction. So although that issue might potentially correct itself without her intervention, a future with them together would nonetheless bring me no satisfaction.

As for Shirley...ah, I wish I could say more. Shirley is dead. I used to speak at length of what could be, and now others speak for me of what could have been. That validation is a hollow comfort. I am as broken as Lelouch is (as far as Code Geass goes). I can only hope he keeps me company.

:P Sorry to end on so harsh and depressing a note.

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2008-08-30 at 04:40.
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Old 2008-08-30, 02:25   Link #3997
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Really? No one has anything to say? I think your logic put the Romance wars to rest Sol lol
Ok I guess I'll start this thread up again...
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
But while I saw C.C. as the shadow of a foreboding future, I never bore disdain for her mind. Kallen, on the other hand, I saw as someone who fell too quickly into righteous arrogance and aggression. Furthermore, as a thoroughly uncreative person, she is often swept up by the words of others, unable or unwilling to find her own. Kallen seems to me to be the epitome of that subjective passion which only spawns and cultivates conflict, an uncompromising, unquestioning flame bound unflinchingly to self-interest. As someone who is changed rather than a changer, Kallen has always been ideally unsuited to pulling Lelouch off the path of destruction. So although that issue might potentially correct itself without her intervention, a future with them together would nonetheless bring me no satisfaction.

As for Shirley...ah, I wish I could say more. Shirley is dead. I used to speak at length of what could be, and now others speak for me of what could have been. That validation is a hollow comfort. I am as broken as Lelouch is (as far as Code Geass goes). I can only hope he keeps me company.

:P Sorry to end on so harsh and depressing a note.
While I do agree with your assessment of Kallen, things could change in future episodes. Kallen's entire development this season is trying to find out who Lelouch really is and what really is Lelouch's true wishes. Kallen seems to support Lelouch because it brings Japan back and OotBK is like her family. Yet if she abandons them, then wouldn't that mean she chooses her own path and changes herself while also abandoning her own self interest in order to fullfill Lelouch's happiness. She would be like the next Shirley I guess. Even though I don't want that to happen because Kallen would be a complete hypocrite but it is still possible for her to make a 180. Still, even if she doesn't leave, why does Kallen have to sacrifice something in order to prove her love? I know it doesn't seem like an equal relationship, but Kallen has effected/changed Lelouch on some level like when she stopped him from refraining himself. As for Kallen pulling Lelouch off the path of destruction, well only Lelouch can do that himself. But as it stands right now, he put things in motion that cannot be undone. Lelouch has to see it through to the end. I bet even Shirley couldn't have done that. Although Shirley did prevent Lelouch from doing some deplorable acts like forcing Tianzi to marry a Japanese for a political marriage. Kallen all though she hasn't shown it yet still has that possible ability and just hasn't been in a situation to prove it. The problem is Lelouch doesn't turn to Kallen for advice and it's usually Kallen that seeks him out. I totally hate Kalulu and hate Kallen even more but I can't deny that she's not out of the love game yet.

Last edited by Sports72Xtrm; 2008-08-30 at 03:14.
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Old 2008-08-30, 06:02   Link #3998
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Really? No one has anything to say? I think your logic put the Romance wars to rest Sol lol
Ok I guess I'll start this thread up again...
:P Heh; these long periods of silence are regrettable but someone always shows up eventually. I did make some harsh or generalized statements though so I'm waiting for someone to correct me. (And here I go making some more!! >_<)

Quote:
While I do agree with your assessment of Kallen, things could change in future episodes. Kallen's entire development this season is trying to find out who Lelouch really is and what really is Lelouch's true wishes. Kallen seems to support Lelouch because it brings Japan back and OotBK is like her family. Yet if she abandons them, then wouldn't that mean she chooses her own path and changes herself while also abandoning her own self interest in order to fullfill Lelouch's happiness. She would be like the next Shirley I guess. Even though I don't want that to happen because Kallen would be a complete hypocrite but it is still possible for her to make a 180. Still, even if she doesn't leave, why does Kallen have to sacrifice something in order to prove her love? I know it doesn't seem like an equal relationship, but Kallen has effected/changed Lelouch on some level like when she stopped him from refraining himself. As for Kallen pulling Lelouch off the path of destruction, well only Lelouch can do that himself. But as it stands right now, he put things in motion that cannot be undone. Lelouch has to see it through to the end. I bet even Shirley couldn't have done that. Although Shirley did prevent Lelouch from doing some deplorable acts like forcing Tianzi to marry a Japanese for a political marriage. Kallen all though she hasn't shown it yet still has that possible ability and just hasn't been in a situation to prove it. The problem is Lelouch doesn't turn to Kallen for advice and it's usually Kallen that seeks him out. I totally hate Kalulu and hate Kallen even more but I can't deny that she's not out of the love game yet.
:P No worries, I'm making no claims as to the 'likelihood' of any pairing. As I said in my introductory paragraphs, I'm in the business of offering opinions.

But as for the developments that you mentioned, I'm afraid that understanding and falling in love with Lelouch still falls under the 'epitome of subjective passion' as I had mentioned before. I wouldn't really call quitting the Black Knights to chase after Lelouch out of love 'standing on her own two feet' either, self-sacrifice or not (to clarify; when I used the words 'self-interested' it was meant in the frame of 'subjectivity': when one chooses to devote oneself to a singular ideal without consideration for the suffering of others--that is 'self-interestedness'). Although again to clarify, these words are only relevant in a conversation addressing whether or not Kallen would suit Lelouch.

Now about the 'being the next Shirley' issue, I'm curious: is this actually an argument KallenxLelouch fans are pushing? Although I'm dubious that Kallen fans would try to jam her into the mold of another character, if we were to seriously consider this, Kallen falls short on several levels. To illustrate: In terms of devotion, Kallen's confession to Lelouch was conditional and tearstained while Shirley's assumed rejection and faced it with determination to turn it around. In terms of understanding, Shirley demonstrated profound forgiveness and remarkable insight into Lelouch's circumstances and intentions in episode 13, with her knowledge of the 'true' Lelouch handicapped by a degree of magnitude, while Kallen spent three episodes pondering Lelouch's identity only to emerge giddy to use Nunally's death as an excuse to talk about her older brother and hoping Lelouch'd ask her to die with him. And finally, in terms of care versus blind obedience, we saw Kallen execute Lelouch's orders to kill his best friend without hesitation while Shirley helped realize the most significant step to their reconciliation in the entire series. Now of course this assessment is biased towards areas where Shirley excelled, but on the premise which started this discussion: she'd make a poor replacement.
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Old 2008-08-30, 06:35   Link #3999
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Don't you think that the statement "No matter how many times I am reborn in this world... I will still be there to love you" is a statement to behold... o.O

Hoping like Euphie and Shirley will be reborn as contractors o.O
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Old 2008-08-30, 06:47   Link #4000
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Location: Land of Dead Cakes!
Age: 34
I don't understand how her chasing after Lelouch, the person who's made all her hopes become tangible reality, makes her a hypocrite. If he has shown the ability to succeed and change the world, following him would make logical sense. Further this that, if she is a hypocrite for following him, then she's an even bigger hypocrite for falling in love with him. At least the former can be about results, her falling in love with him is completely independant of her other desires as this, one thing, is personal.

On Kallen being unable to alter Lelouch's path because she's just a follower. Episode 7 says 'Hello'.
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