(L) Sora no Woto

[Dop]

You know, I get the feeling that many people out there decided they knew EXACTLY what this series was going to be like before a single episode aired, and have decided to stand by their original impression come hell or high water.

Me? I watch anime to be entertained, not so I can rant about it on the internet after.

[klare]

eps 6 with an interesting way of story-telling plus some drama, i feel it is good

i wonder is there any reason why Kanata so keen to do Rio's hair...

the priest was writing a baby's name in Kanji, so the people in the town are Japanese?

[felix]

Originally Posted by klare

the priest was writing a baby's name in Kanji, so the people in the town are Japanese?

Its not uncommon for a region (community) in a country to have different traditions or more commonly speak another language (not just different dialect) then the rest of the country. I suppose its more common in Europe then other places. Borders aren't really set by nationality or what language you speak -- but rather I suppose you could say "military history".

[Roardel]

As discussed before, Helvetian culture is Japanese-European (and maybe Chinese) mixture.
Kanjis are called "sacred script". People use French in daily life.
So it's just Latin or ancient Greek position in our world.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by klare

the priest was writing a baby's name in Kanji, so the people in the town are Japanese?

Japan doesn't exist anymore, and neither does French, German, or American cultures. Everything we as viewers know has been scattered to the winds by the time of So Ra No Wo To. What's left is an amalgamation of the cultural remnants glued together, like how modern English as a language contain multiple ancient sources that no longer exists.

[brain]

I agree with the comment expressed that if you see this show as moe, that really only means that you cannot see past the main characters being relatively "normal" young ladies. Only two of those ladies actually have a moe demeanor. Shy/reserved/nerd is not the same trope as moe. Same with tsundere. Same with whatever you consider Rio -- protective, herself, and certainly not moe.

[Roardel]

Originally Posted by klare

i wonder is there any reason why Kanata so keen to do Rio's hair...

I suppose Kanata likes Rio's long, thick and straight hair. Because Kanata's hair is not.
It's just "akogare".

[Sophrosyne]

Originally Posted by Roardel

So it's just Latin or ancient Greek position in our world.

That wouldn't explain the relatively new shirts on the market.

[Roardel]

Originally Posted by Sophrosyne

That wouldn't explain the relatively new shirts on the market.

Oh, gee. Probably it's a pop design that designer doesn't know the meaning
At outdoor markets in Japan, plenty of shirts nonsense foreign langage printed on them are sold and Japanese people buy them with no doubt.
Among them, maybe "JULIUS CAESAR" shirt is

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Dop

You know, I get the feeling that many people out there decided they knew EXACTLY what this series was going to be like before a single episode aired, and have decided to stand by their original impression come hell or high water.

That's a part of the reason I stayed away from this thread.

[Sparvid]

Spoiler for ep 6:

I don't quite see what was moe about Noel with a big gun. Let's say that there had been some scene where the girls were doing some target practicing in the woods, and the recoil threw her off her feet. Then, while it wouldn't automatically be moe, I certainly could see the argument.

But instead, the gangster scene was done completely straight until the bad guys fled. So the general viewer probably didn't react with "Aww, look at her with that big gun" as much as "Holy crap! They massacred those guys!"

[Sol Falling]

Heh. Mindless neg reps just encourage me to actually diss this show, never mind the reasons someone might legitamitely find it enjoyable.

Originally Posted by Cats

Wonderful use of language you have, just goes to show where you're mind is.

I don't know why I even bothered to reason with you. // re-adds self-proclaimed troll to ignore list

Not to be pretentious or anything, but a true sage understands both the vulgar and the sublime :P. lol, again: not that I actually consider myself a sage or anything, but considering the sort of 'reasoning' you've tried to throw at me...

How convenient it must be that you can just write me off as a troll. It's a bit of a shame, really. I was actually a bit curious to know what you really meant by such incoherent phrases as 'self-centered antics', 'moe theme', and 'big words like moe-blog'. You continuously speak of people 'trying to act smart' and 'not understanding what they are saying' but it seems to me it's more like you are just projecting your own lack of comprehension.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

So true indeed. A fair portion of haters are just doing so because it's cool to hate something popular.

>> implying Sora no Woto is 'popular'

Originally Posted by Dop

You know, I get the feeling that many people out there decided they knew EXACTLY what this series was going to be like before a single episode aired, and have decided to stand by their original impression come hell or high water.

Me? I watch anime to be entertained, not so I can rant about it on the internet after.

I watch anime to be entertained too. I only started ranting after people started claiming--hey!--my honest impressions were 'thoughtless blabbering' because they couldn't understand them. Christ, people would really like a 'troll' to complain about, wouldn't they?

edit:

And the mindless idiocy continues. Jesus christ guy, try to get it through your skull: the point of this post is that hey!--I am not actually trolling this show and don't appreciate people complaining (or more like talking down to make themselves feel better ) about me as if I were. I'm just there, genuinely trying to express/explain my opinion and the moment some righteous ass proclaims that I'm a troll, everybody jumps on the bandwagon. That line at the start of this post is not to say 'hey, I am going to continue this imaginary trolling you think I'm doing just to piss you off' but rather 'people mindlessly attacking me because they think I am trolling even though I actually am not does make me want to piss them off'. I don't actually have any ammo, though, because I don't actually hate this show--the worst I actually came up with and used was yes, the 'Sora no Woto is not popular' (at least not by my estimation) line.

I continue to think that the people who make up imaginary enemies where there actually aren't any are the real 'pathetic persons'.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Heh... If you don't like it so much why watch it?

Me the hook for this show is this post war-post apocalypse setting. The current mono-culture and why did the world end up this way.

Not to mention what was that headless dragon thing.

[Sol Falling]

:P See, that's the thing. I never even said I disliked it. Watching the show itself is not an unpleasant experience for me. The animation is decent, and I sometimes find humour in Rio's over the top voice acting. And there is, of course, all that post-apocalyptic setting stuff with all the history and lost technology; even though it hasn't lead anywhere yet, the level of detail is indeed engaging.

What I posted about though was the characters and emotional content. I wasn't even saying that there isn't any; I was saying how, six episodes in, none of it had actually reached me. I don't like any of the characters so far, and that made for example the mobster cosplay scene, which might theoretically have come off as extremely awesome if I had actually developed an emotional connection to some of the characters, come off as pandering. Similarly there was something lacking in Mishio's 'braid my hair onee-chan' scene to really pull me in and feel the emotion. Thus far, the only connection to the characters the show has made me feel is a sort of shallow, emotionless moe where I think (for example) 'wow, the way Kanata is drawn is really damn cute in this scene' or something. This is what makes me claim that moe is a focus in this show, and that it has shallow emotional content.

[scr]

Sora no Woto 06: The Godfather (literally, even. The calligraphy scene.)

Btw, the "vantage points" script and the mafia theme reminds me of Baccano!.

We should have seen this coming, what's with the Major in previous episode simply stash away his bottle while he keep watch of the fortress. He can't be caught having enjoyed liquor by his own superiors when he return to his post.

Spoiler for eps6:

That's no wine, for it's made of hallucinogenic mushroom cultivated in the cellar.
If the government keep close eye to booze, they would keep close eye to grape plantation too.

$0.02

[kankyo]

Originally Posted by scr

Sora no Woto 06: The Godfather (literally, even. The calligraphy scene.)

Btw, the "vantage points" script and the mafia theme reminds me of Baccano!.

We should have seen this coming, what's with the Major in previous episode simply stash away his bottle while he keep watch of the fortress. He can't be caught having enjoyed liquor by his own superiors when he return to his post.

Spoiler for eps6:

That's no wine, for it's made of hallucinogenic mushroom cultivated in the cellar.
If the government keep close eye to booze, they would keep close eye to grape plantation too.

$0.02

No grapes required (and no mushrooms ). Calvados is made from apples, and it's a brandy so it needs to sit in a barrel for some years (which explains why the "business" has to be passed from one "generation" of fortress maidens to the next).

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

So yeah, if someone does think they know what kind of show this is, then by all means lay it on me--I'm probably in this for the long haul because I don't hate this show enough to drop it, so I might as well enjoy it after all (alternatively, if your explanation manages to convince me that this show really is completely irrelevant to my interests, then you might well get me out of this thread ).

It's slice of life, with a dash of moe, philosophy, and a difficult to pin down setting that is familiar in many ways. Like Vallen said, if Haibane had been made today it would have been labeled moe by many...the archetypes and style have been around forever but it hasn't been until the last few years where moe became a blanket term that tends to be overused and poorly placed. Heck, many of the characters from Haibane are very close in personality to Sora - Reki is Rio, Rakka is Kanata, Nemu is Filicia, etc. Noel stands apart simply because she's the Nagato/Rei archetype. I won't be the first to ever claim that anime characters are unique...just like any other form of storytelling it's easy to find overlapping characters and themes from different titles.

Moe is nothing more than "cute girls". Yes, you can have "cute boys" but it's harder to make boys moe without feminizing them. What is cute is subjective. Rin's friends are often very moe, but obviously the story uses that intentionally to juxtapose the serious tones of the plot. If the style was more "realistic", it would be much more difficult for readers to get into. The plot of underage children exploring their sexuality is very uncomfortable for many, but it's easier to rationalize that discomfort with cute images instead of more realistic ones.

Sora no Woto probably won't have much plot until the end of the series, just like Haibane. It probably won't wrap everything up neatly either. I presume for fans of the show, that will be fine. The rest will probably write the entire series off as a waste of time, "just as planned", and either find something else or stick around to complain it wasn't everything they wanted.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

>> implying Sora no Woto is 'popular'

If you had actually read, you'll know I'm referring to the moe theme in general.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

If you had actually read, you'll know I'm referring to the moe theme in general.

But you were saying that in agreement with Cats, who was saying that Sora no Woto isn't moe. If that's the case, then (according to you) it shouldn't have any haters, right?

If you agree that Sora no Woto isn't especially popular btw, not sure why you even bothered to chime in with that comment, as 'haters hate moe because it's popular' has nothing to do with this topic.

Originally Posted by Solace

It's slice of life, with a dash of moe, philosophy, and a difficult to pin down setting that is familiar in many ways. Like Vallen said, if Haibane had been made today it would have been labeled moe by many...the archetypes and style have been around forever but it hasn't been until the last few years where moe became a blanket term that tends to be overused and poorly placed. Heck, many of the characters from Haibane are very close in personality to Sora - Reki is Rio, Rakka is Kanata, Nemu is Filicia, etc. Noel stands apart simply because she's the Nagato/Rei archetype. I won't be the first to ever claim that anime characters are unique...just like any other form of storytelling it's easy to find overlapping characters and themes from different titles.

Moe is nothing more than "cute girls". Yes, you can have "cute boys" but it's harder to make boys moe without feminizing them. What is cute is subjective. Rin's friends are often very moe, but obviously the story uses that intentionally to juxtapose the serious tones of the plot. If the style was more "realistic", it would be much more difficult for readers to get into. The plot of underage children exploring their sexuality is very uncomfortable for many, but it's easier to rationalize that discomfort with cute images instead of more realistic ones.

Sora no Woto probably won't have much plot until the end of the series, just like Haibane. It probably won't wrap everything up neatly either. I presume for fans of the show, that will be fine. The rest will probably write the entire series off as a waste of time, "just as planned", and either find something else or stick around to complain it wasn't everything they wanted.

Sounds like I wasn't that far off after all then. lol at all the people trying to tell me 'Sora no Woto has no moe at all'. I agree that 'moe' is a fairly widespread phenomenon that could be applied to many older anime before it was popularized, and also that having 'moe' doesn't necessarily make a show bad. I'd say Haibane Ranme is still distinct from Sora no Woto though in having compelling character/emotion from the beginning.

I guess I can see how Mimi might fall under stereotypical 'moe', but when you take into consideration Mimi's persecution and self-worth issues it seems almost impossible to actually be gratified by those scenes. Kodomo no Jikan's character designs might be cute, but as you suggest, I think the emotional response part of 'feeling moe' is almost always subverted in the series in order to develop its more serious themes. I still stand by the claim that anybody who'd call Kodomo no Jikan a moe series either hasn't read it or has a loose conception of what 'moe' is (based only on appearance).

As for writing off this series in the end for never fully resolving its plot/explaining its setting, that's not necessarily what I'm looking for, at least. Saying this series has a dash of philosophy is interesting because, as I mentioned, I did like the way they portrayed Kanata's attitude/experience about fate and if they never get around to making these moe girls compelling and likeable, it might be that kind of content that ends up making it worth it for me. However, I'd always consider character and emotion to be the most basic thing for drawing me in and making me like a series (it's practically essential for a slice of life series), and that is what I think Sora no Woto is somehow failing at right now. Maybe it's just me, but I think this series could be better if the character development we got was more interesting/relatable than stuff like 'hates religion/fate', 'has a crush on a sleazy old dude', or 'was convinced that tanks are 'good' because they can play pretty music' (lol).

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
As I see it, the anti-moe movement is just people who got anime fatigue.

More like people didn't figure out "oh, we can definitely mindlessly troll on this and get away with it" back then. From what I see this is more or less a meme of people who are trying to act smart but don't really know what it is they are saying.

I don't see where Cat's reply to VCV which I'm agreeing with mentions So.Ra.No.Wo.To anywhere.